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can't make table height smaller

 
 
Brian
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      03-15-2006
I have inherited a web site and am trying to make minor changes in
appearance without having to overhaul the whole thing. I am having a
specific issue with a table height - no matter how small I make it, it
doesn't shrink past a certain size. (But making it larger will in fact
make it larger.)

First, here's the URL:
http://www.amphenolpcd.com/avionic_pages/m81714_2.htm

for the table to the left headed "MATERIALS" I am trying make that the
same size as the table to it's right. If I increase the height 351 the
table grows, but if I decrease it it stays the same size.

And while I'm at it, I'd like to get rid of the extra box to the left
of the "Terminal Junction Modules" heading.

If you look at the code you will probably want to tell me that it is
dated. This I know. This site was probably desiged in 2000.

TIA for any and all help.
Regards,
Brian

 
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Jose
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      03-15-2006
You are setting fixed pixel widths for your table and cell sizes. Don't
do that - let the table size itself according to the contents. Use
percents if you must. You are also using tables for layout; that will
raise some heat here, but being an inhereted site, I understand
reluctance to overhaul something that already works, sort of.

Remove all fixed pixel sizes, replace a few of them with percents, and
that should solve many of your problems.

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.
 
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Brian
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      03-15-2006
Jose,

I have much to do here and am not a web site designer. I understand
simple programming (took BASIC in college 20 years ago). I don't have
time to rebuild this site, I just need to add some links and clean up
the look as best as possible. I re-did this page:
http://www.amphenolpcd.com/avionic_pages/m81714_17.htm and am trying
to make the others look better. (and on that page I was able to get the
tables to line up, for the most part).

Is there a way to make a small change to the existing html to get the
tables to be the same size? Right now that's all I want to do. And I
need them to stay the same size relative to each other.

Thanks for your post.
Brian

 
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Jose
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      03-15-2006
> I just need to add some links and clean up
> the look as best as possible.


I thought the issue was the tables had a minimum size you wanted to
eliminate. Something like

> <td height="89" width="249">


....sets the size. Tables will (on some browsers) expand if necessary,
but they won't contract. HTML is not a page layout language; it's not
supposed to be. You can sometimes fool a browser into giving you
something, and that's what you're doing here with tables.

> Is there a way to make a small change to the existing html to get the
> tables to be the same size?


Depends what you mean by small. Since your tables are all
pixel-measured (very bad), you will need to "fix" a lot of little
things. Depending on exactly what you want, there may be only a few of
these little things that need to be fixed to satisfy you, but I can't
tell offhand which ones they are. But the basic problem is pixel-measuring.

> And I need them to stay the
> same size relative to each other.


That is not possible in HTML. It's also not desirable, since sometimes
a cell will have more than it otherwise could hold (either because
there's more data, or the user's font size is bigger than you
anticipated... unless you are going to reach out through the monitor and
give people eye surgery, you need to accept that.

The basic problem is use of tables for layout. Fixing that is a big
deal. If you don't want to fix that, then the secondary problem is,
within the tables, using pixel measurements. There are a lot of them,
you'll need to find out which ones are controlling the sizes you want to
adjust.

Are you familiar with the HTML of tables?

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.
 
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Brian
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      03-15-2006
Jose wrote:

> Are you familiar with the HTML of tables?


I'm getting familiar with it very fast.

OK, so I can't easily make that table on the left smaller. Pixels is
the measure and this is very bad. Can you at least tell me why when I
decrease the height from 351 it does not appear any smaller?
Particularly since there is not a lot of data in the table.

For the table on its right, I decreased that size and that table did
decrease.

Brian

 
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dorayme
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      03-16-2006
In article
<(E-Mail Removed) .com>,
"Brian" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> Is there a way to make a small change to the existing html to get the
> tables to be the same size? Right now that's all I want to do. And I
> need them to stay the same size relative to each other.


This is most unclear. You have all sorts of boxes. What do you
want lined up with what? Explain clearly. Sizes of boxes have
more than one dimension, which boxes? Which dimensions? What
where? Speak!

If you want a box on the left to be the same height as a box to
your right, then this is exactly what a table with cells in the
same row does best. Your job is to make sure they are in the same
table and same row and nothing fancy is added to disturb this
like colspans as you go down.

But really, you either need to learn about tables or give it to
someone who can redo the code (even in tables, yes) to get the
look you want.

Frankly, want some good advice? Leave it as it is, it is a smelly
dog on the inside, it is invalid markup and worse, don't disturb
it. It does not smell too bad on the outside. It is functional
enough. Wait till you have more time.

--
dorayme
 
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Jonathan N. Little
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      03-16-2006
dorayme wrote:

> In article
> <(E-Mail Removed) .com>,
> "Brian" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>
>>Is there a way to make a small change to the existing html to get the
>>tables to be the same size? Right now that's all I want to do. And I
>>need them to stay the same size relative to each other.

>
>
> This is most unclear. You have all sorts of boxes. What do you
> want lined up with what? Explain clearly. Sizes of boxes have
> more than one dimension, which boxes? Which dimensions? What
> where? Speak!
>
> If you want a box on the left to be the same height as a box to
> your right, then this is exactly what a table with cells in the
> same row does best. Your job is to make sure they are in the same
> table and same row and nothing fancy is added to disturb this
> like colspans as you go down.
>
> But really, you either need to learn about tables or give it to
> someone who can redo the code (even in tables, yes) to get the
> look you want.
>
> Frankly, want some good advice? Leave it as it is, it is a smelly
> dog on the inside, it is invalid markup and worse, don't disturb
> it. It does not smell too bad on the outside. It is functional
> enough. Wait till you have more time.
>

Agree! Because the markup (HTML) is chock full of old deprecated
attributes (the WIDTH, HEIGHT,...) and element (FONT, CENTER, ...) to
make small changes universally will take a lot of work. For the effort
that much effort it would be easier, quicker, and most likely less
expensive to redo correctly with the markup (HTML) and presentation
(CSS) separate than to hack with what you have. Once redone if you ever
wanted to change your site again in the manner your are attempting right
now the change could be as easily as changing a few lines in s CSS
stylesheet and the *whole* site would change *without* having to redo
all the pages are you are now faced with. That is the beauty of
seperating the markup and presentation, maintainability!

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
 
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Neredbojias
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      03-16-2006
With neither quill nor qualm, Brian quothed:

> I have inherited a web site and am trying to make minor changes in
> appearance without having to overhaul the whole thing. I am having a
> specific issue with a table height - no matter how small I make it, it
> doesn't shrink past a certain size. (But making it larger will in fact
> make it larger.)
>
> First, here's the URL:
> http://www.amphenolpcd.com/avionic_pages/m81714_2.htm
>
> for the table to the left headed "MATERIALS" I am trying make that the
> same size as the table to it's right. If I increase the height 351 the
> table grows, but if I decrease it it stays the same size.


In addition and before that is "<table height=705..." which (with the
inner cells) is keeping it from shrinking.

--
Neredbojias
Contrary to popular belief, it is believable.
 
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Brian
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      03-16-2006
Neredbojias,

YOU gave the correct answer!! While others were providing feedback
about how bad the code is, you took the time to understand the last
question I asked (which was very specific "Can you at least tell me why
when I decrease the height from 351 it does not appear any smaller? ")
and provide me with an answer. THANK YOU!!!

I have made changes to the table height setting in two places and now
it appears much better than before I started. Not great, but
acceptable.

Thanks again.
Brian

 
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Jonathan N. Little
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      03-16-2006
Brian wrote:
> Neredbojias,
>
> YOU gave the correct answer!! While others were providing feedback
> about how bad the code is, you took the time to understand the last
> question I asked (which was very specific "Can you at least tell me why
> when I decrease the height from 351 it does not appear any smaller? ")
> and provide me with an answer. THANK YOU!!!


Maybe he had nothing better to do, the point was because the styling,
(the setting of sizes and fonts), are pervasive throughout the markup
that the controlling value could have been anywhere, or worse everywhere
as the interaction of all the set values together may have needed to be
changed for the desired result.

>
> I have made changes to the table height setting in two places and now
> it appears much better than before I started. Not great, but
> acceptable.


So never said how many pages need to be updated. If is a sizable amount,
just remember what you need to change may not be in the same place.
Happy hunting!


--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
 
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