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Rebekha Ljoekelsoey
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      03-14-2006
Can I ask for clarification regarding hidden elements in forms and the use
of the mailto:

I have recently been told that the inclusion of the mailto: will render the
form inoperative
<input type="hidden" name="recipient" value="(E-Mail Removed)">

Mailto: in the hidden field shouldn't be there are it makes the form
inoperable. Mailto: should only be used in a normal email link.

Your comments would be warmly appreciated


 
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Benjamin Niemann
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      03-14-2006
Rebekha Ljoekelsoey wrote:

> Can I ask for clarification regarding hidden elements in forms and the use
> of the mailto:
>
> I have recently been told that the inclusion of the mailto: will render
> the form inoperative
> <input type="hidden" name="recipient" value="(E-Mail Removed)">
>
> Mailto: in the hidden field shouldn't be there are it makes the form
> inoperable. Mailto: should only be used in a normal email link.
>
> Your comments would be warmly appreciated


Never heard of a problem with such values. From the browsers point of view
it is just some text that is to be sent to the server along with the other
values from visible or hidden controls.

Using 'mailto:...' for the ACTION attribute of the FORM element does often
not work as intended, because it requires fully configured mail setup on
the visitors computer - something that is not available, if the user uses
webmail or no mail at all.

And 'mailto:...' may not work in A HREF for the same reason.

--
Benjamin Niemann
Email: pink at odahoda dot de
WWW: http://www.odahoda.de/
 
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Rebekha Ljoekelsoey
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      03-14-2006

"Benjamin Niemann" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:dv657i$uf2$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Rebekha Ljoekelsoey wrote:
>
> > Can I ask for clarification regarding hidden elements in forms and the

use
> > of the mailto:
> >
> > I have recently been told that the inclusion of the mailto: will render
> > the form inoperative
> > <input type="hidden" name="recipient" value="(E-Mail Removed)">
> >
> > Mailto: in the hidden field shouldn't be there are it makes the form
> > inoperable. Mailto: should only be used in a normal email link.
> >
> > Your comments would be warmly appreciated

>
> Never heard of a problem with such values. From the browsers point of view
> it is just some text that is to be sent to the server along with the other
> values from visible or hidden controls.
>
> Using 'mailto:...' for the ACTION attribute of the FORM element does often
> not work as intended, because it requires fully configured mail setup on
> the visitors computer - something that is not available, if the user uses
> webmail or no mail at all.
>
> And 'mailto:...' may not work in A HREF for the same reason.
>
> --
> Benjamin Niemann
> Email: pink at odahoda dot de
> WWW: http://www.odahoda.de/


many thanks for the answer, I am having terrible problems with an examining
board who insist that the form will NOT work with the mailto included

Rebekha


 
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Benjamin Niemann
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Posts: n/a
 
      03-14-2006
Rebekha Ljoekelsoey wrote:

>
> "Benjamin Niemann" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:dv657i$uf2$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> Rebekha Ljoekelsoey wrote:
>>
>> > Can I ask for clarification regarding hidden elements in forms and the

> use
>> > of the mailto:
>> >
>> > I have recently been told that the inclusion of the mailto: will render
>> > the form inoperative
>> > <input type="hidden" name="recipient" value="(E-Mail Removed)">
>> >
>> > Mailto: in the hidden field shouldn't be there are it makes the form
>> > inoperable. Mailto: should only be used in a normal email link.
>> >
>> > Your comments would be warmly appreciated

>>
>> Never heard of a problem with such values. From the browsers point of
>> view it is just some text that is to be sent to the server along with the
>> other values from visible or hidden controls.
>>
>> Using 'mailto:...' for the ACTION attribute of the FORM element does
>> often not work as intended, because it requires fully configured mail
>> setup on the visitors computer - something that is not available, if the
>> user uses webmail or no mail at all.
>>
>> And 'mailto:...' may not work in A HREF for the same reason.

>
> many thanks for the answer, I am having terrible problems with an
> examining board who insist that the form will NOT work with the mailto
> included


Having a second thought on it...
Something that may or may not work with the 'mailto:' is the server-side
script that recieves the form data. But this is an implementation detail of
this specific piece of software and you should consult the documentation
about what values the script expects.

--
Benjamin Niemann
Email: pink at odahoda dot de
WWW: http://www.odahoda.de/
 
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Alan J. Flavell
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Posts: n/a
 
      03-14-2006
On Tue, 14 Mar 2006, Rebekha Ljoekelsoey wrote:

> Can I ask for clarification regarding hidden elements in forms and
> the use of the mailto:
>
> I have recently been told that the inclusion of the mailto: will
> render the form inoperative


> <input type="hidden" name="recipient" value="(E-Mail Removed)">
>
> Mailto: in the hidden field shouldn't be there are

[as?]
> it makes the form inoperable.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

That is obviously meaningless in the terms in which it is stated.
"The form" will do nothing more nor less than submit an appropriate
character-string value to the server. What then happens, depends on
the server-side script, which is not in evidence here.

> Mailto: should only be used in a normal email link.


There isn't any "link" in evidence here - only a "form control" (to
use the language of the HTML4 spec). Its value is just a string of
characters - with no particular meaning until the server-side script
does something with them, and thereby assigns them meaning.

Maybe they're trying to tell you that the server-side script cannot
process this value in its terms? We really have no idea.

> Your comments would be warmly appreciated


Then again, maybe your critic is confusing it with:

<form ... action="mailto:...">

which is surely not a good idea. Or maybe you are?

By the way, it would be CRAZY to allow a script to accept an email
address from an unidentified web user, and then send a mail to that
address: that's called a "spam relay", and will cause severe
headaches as soon as the usual suspects find it.

 
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Rebekha Ljoekelsoey
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Posts: n/a
 
      03-14-2006

"Alan J. Flavell" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news(E-Mail Removed). gla.ac.uk...
> On Tue, 14 Mar 2006, Rebekha Ljoekelsoey wrote:
>
> > Can I ask for clarification regarding hidden elements in forms and
> > the use of the mailto:
> >
> > I have recently been told that the inclusion of the mailto: will
> > render the form inoperative

>
> > <input type="hidden" name="recipient" value="(E-Mail Removed)">
> >
> > Mailto: in the hidden field shouldn't be there are

> [as?]
> > it makes the form inoperable.

> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> That is obviously meaningless in the terms in which it is stated.
> "The form" will do nothing more nor less than submit an appropriate
> character-string value to the server. What then happens, depends on
> the server-side script, which is not in evidence here.
>
> > Mailto: should only be used in a normal email link.

>
> There isn't any "link" in evidence here - only a "form control" (to
> use the language of the HTML4 spec). Its value is just a string of
> characters - with no particular meaning until the server-side script
> does something with them, and thereby assigns them meaning.
>
> Maybe they're trying to tell you that the server-side script cannot
> process this value in its terms? We really have no idea.
>
> > Your comments would be warmly appreciated

>
> Then again, maybe your critic is confusing it with:
>
> <form ... action="mailto:...">
>
> which is surely not a good idea. Or maybe you are?
>
> By the way, it would be CRAZY to allow a script to accept an email
> address from an unidentified web user, and then send a mail to that
> address: that's called a "spam relay", and will cause severe
> headaches as soon as the usual suspects find it.
>


Thanks for this The Examining Board are insisting that the inclusion of
mailto: in the hidden section
<input type="hidden" name="recipient" value="(E-Mail Removed)">
of the form will render it inoperable and who are we to argue with the
Oxford and Cambridge Examining Board

Manny thanks for all your help

Rebekha Magne Ljoekelsoey


 
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Steve Pugh
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Posts: n/a
 
      03-14-2006
"Rebekha Ljoekelsoey" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Can I ask for clarification regarding hidden elements in forms and the use
>of the mailto:


Normally the answer is don't use mailto in forms because normally
people are trying to do something stupid like <form
action="(E-Mail Removed)">

>I have recently been told that the inclusion of the mailto: will render the
>form inoperative
><input type="hidden" name="recipient" value="(E-Mail Removed)">


It might, it might not. The above is perfectly fine HTML. What it does
as part of a form submission is outside the realms of HTML.

>Mailto: in the hidden field shouldn't be there are it makes the form
>inoperable.


That depends entirely on the script that handles the submitted form
data. If the script is expecting an e-mail address then including
mailto: will screw things up. Of course of the script is expecting an
e-mail address and will just send the form submission to that e-mail
address then you have other problems...

>Mailto: should only be used in a normal email link.


And only then with care.

>Your comments would be warmly appreciated


What's the big picture?

Steve
--
"My theories appal you, my heresies outrage you,
I never answer letters and you don't like my tie." - The Doctor

Steve Pugh <(E-Mail Removed)> <http://steve.pugh.net/>
 
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Rebekha Ljoekelsoey
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-14-2006

"Steve Pugh" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> "Rebekha Ljoekelsoey" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> >Can I ask for clarification regarding hidden elements in forms and the

use
> >of the mailto:

>
> Normally the answer is don't use mailto in forms because normally
> people are trying to do something stupid like <form
> action="(E-Mail Removed)">
>
> >I have recently been told that the inclusion of the mailto: will render

the
> >form inoperative
> ><input type="hidden" name="recipient" value="(E-Mail Removed)">

>
> It might, it might not. The above is perfectly fine HTML. What it does
> as part of a form submission is outside the realms of HTML.
>
> >Mailto: in the hidden field shouldn't be there are it makes the form
> >inoperable.

>
> That depends entirely on the script that handles the submitted form
> data. If the script is expecting an e-mail address then including
> mailto: will screw things up. Of course of the script is expecting an
> e-mail address and will just send the form submission to that e-mail
> address then you have other problems...
>
> >Mailto: should only be used in a normal email link.

>
> And only then with care.
>
> >Your comments would be warmly appreciated

>
> What's the big picture?
>
> Steve
> --
> "My theories appal you, my heresies outrage you,
> I never answer letters and you don't like my tie." - The Doctor
>
> Steve Pugh <(E-Mail Removed)> <http://steve.pugh.net/>


Big picture. I recently had several candidates enter an examination and they
all failed for including the mailto: in the hidden element of an html
interactive form. The examining body said that this action resulted in
making the form inoperative, now I know and you know that this is not true
as all the mailto: in a hidden element produces is a copy of the forms
content to be sent to the recipient along with the webmail thingy.
Very frustrating, but who can argue with OCR

RML


 
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Steve Pugh
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Posts: n/a
 
      03-14-2006
"Rebekha Ljoekelsoey" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>
>"Steve Pugh" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>news:(E-Mail Removed).. .
>> "Rebekha Ljoekelsoey" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>> >Can I ask for clarification regarding hidden elements in forms and the

>use
>> >of the mailto:

>>
>> Normally the answer is don't use mailto in forms because normally
>> people are trying to do something stupid like <form
>> action="(E-Mail Removed)">
>>
>> >I have recently been told that the inclusion of the mailto: will render

>the
>> >form inoperative
>> ><input type="hidden" name="recipient" value="(E-Mail Removed)">

>>
>> It might, it might not. The above is perfectly fine HTML. What it does
>> as part of a form submission is outside the realms of HTML.
>>
>> >Mailto: in the hidden field shouldn't be there are it makes the form
>> >inoperable.

>>
>> That depends entirely on the script that handles the submitted form
>> data. If the script is expecting an e-mail address then including
>> mailto: will screw things up. Of course of the script is expecting an
>> e-mail address and will just send the form submission to that e-mail
>> address then you have other problems...
>>
>> >Mailto: should only be used in a normal email link.

>>
>> And only then with care.
>>
>> >Your comments would be warmly appreciated

>>
>> What's the big picture?
>>

>Big picture. I recently had several candidates enter an examination and they
>all failed for including the mailto: in the hidden element of an html
>interactive form.


Why did they do so? Were they used to working with a form that
required such a construction (which is odd)? Did the exam question
give any information about why any hidden field would be needed at
all?

> The examining body said that this action resulted in
>making the form inoperative,


Which it might, as I explained above. (Assuming that 'inoperative'
means that the form submission will not be processed properly. There's
nothing about this construction, odd though it may be, that will stop
the form being submited, it just might all go wrong after that...)

> now I know and you know that this is not true


I know no such thing. As I haven't see the script on the server
handling the submission of the form (have you?) then I can't say
whether it can cope with this particular value in the submission.

>as all the mailto: in a hidden element produces is a copy of the forms
>content to be sent to the recipient


That doesn't sound at all likely. If the contents of the form
submssion are to be mailed to the address specified in a hidden form
field then that hidden form field should contain just an address. Not
an address preceeded by the characters mailto:.

The script handling the form submission may be able to handle it with
the extra characters as well, but why should it?

And as I implied earlier, any form-to-email system that relies on the
recipient being given in a hidden field is badly coded in the first
place. Does the script on the server check to see whether anyone has
tampered with the data and substituted a different address there? Does
it allow mailing to any domain? In other words is this is a gift horse
to spammers?

> along with the webmail thingy.


Now you've totally lost me.

>Very frustrating, but who can argue with OCR


Um, you can if you want to. But without seeing the syllabus, course
notes, the exam in question and your students' complete answers I
can't really say whether you'd be arguing from a correct or incorrect
position.

Steve
--
"My theories appal you, my heresies outrage you,
I never answer letters and you don't like my tie." - The Doctor

Steve Pugh <(E-Mail Removed)> <http://steve.pugh.net/>
 
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Rebekha Ljoekelsoey
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Posts: n/a
 
      03-14-2006
Thanks for your considerable help
">
> Steve
> --
> "My theories appal you, my heresies outrage you,
> I never answer letters and you don't like my tie." - The Doctor
>
> Steve Pugh <(E-Mail Removed)> <http://steve.pugh.net/>



 
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