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Can you insert a graphic offsite?

 
 
Joel Shepherd
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      12-13-2005
In article <(E-Mail Removed)5n.co.uk>,
Toby Inkster <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> Els wrote:
>
> > Or maybe a better analogy - shop sells beer with the promotion: buy 5,
> > get the 6th free. Do you plead 'not guilty' when they bust you for
> > only taking the 6th, because it is free?

>
> Better analogy: I'm giving out free hobnobs to anyone who visits me at
> home; you give people my address and say "free hobnobs here" and suddenly
> everyone's turning and taking my hobnobs. Are you stealing hobnobs from
> me?


The issue is not hobnobs or pictures. We're not talking about "picture
theft" and if we were there is already copyright law to address that
issue.

The issue is bandwidth, which many people who run websites pay for
monthly, for the specific purpose of serving content to visitors to
their site. When another person uses that bandwidth to serve content to
_their_ visitors, they are taking something of value from the original
site owner. The original owner has been deprived of bandwidth which they
are paying for to serve up their own site.

E.g., someone hotlinking to a large video file on my site can rapidly
consume bandwidth I'm paying for to serve both that file and hundreds of
smaller pages. If the abuse goes far enough, either my own visitors are
cut off from all content on my site, or I pay much higher fees for the
extra bandwidth to keep the site up. I am being deprived of something of
value which I've paid for. That sounds an awful lot like theft to me.

Drop the analogies for once. The issue is not that hard to understand.

--
Joel.
 
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tm
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      12-13-2005
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
Joel Shepherd <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Toby Inkster wrote:
> > Els wrote:


> > > Or maybe a better analogy - shop sells beer with the promotion: buy 5,
> > > get the 6th free. Do you plead 'not guilty' when they bust you for
> > > only taking the 6th, because it is free?

> >
> > Better analogy: I'm giving out free hobnobs to anyone who visits me at
> > home; you give people my address and say "free hobnobs here" and suddenly
> > everyone's turning and taking my hobnobs. Are you stealing hobnobs from
> > me?

>
> The issue is not hobnobs or pictures. We're not talking about "picture
> theft" and if we were there is already copyright law to address that
> issue.
>
> The issue is bandwidth, which many people who run websites pay for
> monthly, for the specific purpose of serving content to visitors to
> their site. When another person uses that bandwidth to serve content to
> _their_ visitors, they are taking something of value from the original
> site owner. The original owner has been deprived of bandwidth which they
> are paying for to serve up their own site.
>
> E.g., someone hotlinking to a large video file on my site can rapidly
> consume bandwidth I'm paying for to serve both that file and hundreds of
> smaller pages. If the abuse goes far enough, either my own visitors are
> cut off from all content on my site, or I pay much higher fees for the
> extra bandwidth to keep the site up. I am being deprived of something of
> value which I've paid for. That sounds an awful lot like theft to me.
>
> Drop the analogies for once. The issue is not that hard to understand.


So, no beer? Why bother then?
 
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Noel S Pamfree
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      12-13-2005
You clearly don't understand what I am trying to do!

I want to use pictures held on my own server on my work website.

I simply wanted to know if I could do it without having to copy them from
one server to another.

Noel

Best not to think the worst of people before you hear them out!


 
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dorayme
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      12-13-2005
> From: "Noel S Pamfree" <(E-Mail Removed)>
>
> You clearly don't understand what I am trying to do!
>
> I want to use pictures held on my own server on my work website.
>
> I simply wanted to know if I could do it without having to copy them from
> one server to another.
>
> Noel
>
> Best not to think the worst of people before you hear them out!
>


You can do it as has been made clear. If it helps, not too many
believe you wanted to do it for any other purpose than was
legitimate. It is just that someone mentioned some ethical
consideration - yawn - right at the start) and others tore off
like hares with the issue, having some fun along the way. This
is what newsgroups are like. Don't take it personally. Yes, it
is remarkable that it is so often the first issue on the lips of
some folk... Actually. I now feel bad at not slapping the guy
down myself, (Goddamn it, I was too respectful). Usually it is
the puritanically historied yanks who's lips these issues are
always on, but in this case, I am ashamed to say, it was a
convict historied Aussie. But he is totally unusual, he is a
non-Woody-Allen-movie-going suit-owning individual. Don't worry.

-- dorayme

 
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Mark Parnell
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      12-13-2005
Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, dorayme
<(E-Mail Removed)> spouted in alt.html:

> You can do it as has been made clear. If it helps, not too many
> believe you wanted to do it for any other purpose than was
> legitimate.


I don't know that anyone assumed he did.

> It is just that someone mentioned some ethical
> consideration - yawn - right at the start)


I merely mentioned it in case the OP was not aware of the ramifications
- as he has now made clear that he owns the other site, it is obviously
not an issue. For him, anyway. Others reading the thread may be wanting
to link to someone else's images - and they need to know that they need
to get permission to do so.

> and others tore off
> like hares with the issue, having some fun along the way. This
> is what newsgroups are like.


Indeed. And no one was discussing the OP personally, just the issue of
hotlinking in generally.

> Actually. I now feel bad at not slapping the guy
> down myself,


Well excuse me!

> (Goddamn it, I was too respectful). Usually it is
> the puritanically historied yanks who's lips these issues are
> always on,


Unfortunately (thanks to the Yanks) we live in a world full of
litigation, so you need to be careful about these things.

> but in this case, I am ashamed to say, it was a
> convict historied Aussie.


Well, my parents are both Brits who came out here as kids, so no
convicts in my family tree. My wife has a few, though - if that
helps.

> But he is totally unusual,


Aren't we all?

> he is a
> non-Woody-Allen-movie-going


I go to very few movies at all, but no - I haven't ever seen a Woody
Allen movie. What that has to do with the OP's post I have no idea. But
of course this is Usenet. It doesn't have to be related.

> suit-owning


One (1) suit. Which I have hardly worn.

> individual.


"Yes, we're ALL individuals".
"Er, I'm not."

> Don't worry.


Indeed.

--
Mark Parnell
================================================== ===
Att. Google Groups users - this is your last warning:
http://www.safalra.com/special/googlegroupsreply/
 
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Toby Inkster
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Posts: n/a
 
      12-13-2005
Els wrote:

> The thing is though, that with deeplinking, they don't visit your
> house.
>
> One person visited your house, and constructed outlets for hobnobs
> from your hobnob-room. Big hoovers sucking the hobnobs from their
> packages and spitting them out at the other end, which happens to be
> outside your house or even in the next street.


Nah. Providing a URL to visitors is not analogous to hoovering up
free hobnobs -- it's analogous to providing directions to a source of free
hobnobs. It's still me that's giving away the hobnobs and I can choose to
stop giving them away, or restrict access, whenever I want.

--
Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact

 
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dorayme
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      12-14-2005
> From: Mark Parnell <(E-Mail Removed)>
>
> I merely mentioned it in case the OP was not aware of the ramifications
> - as he has now made clear that he owns the other site, it is obviously
> not an issue. For him, anyway. Others reading the thread may be wanting
> to link to someone else's images - and they need to know that they need
> to get permission to do so.


Yes, there are all sorts of people that read these posts and they are lucky
to have some reminders about this sort of thing. I will never mention your
suit again.

--
dorayme

 
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Mark Parnell
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      12-14-2005
Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, dorayme
<(E-Mail Removed)> spouted in alt.html:

> Yes, there are all sorts of people that read these posts and they are lucky
> to have some reminders about this sort of thing. I will never mention your
> suit again.


Thank you. Now let's get back to the important stuff, like winning the
cricket (South Africa haven't got a chance!).

--
Mark Parnell
================================================== ===
Att. Google Groups users - this is your last warning:
http://www.safalra.com/special/googlegroupsreply/
 
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Els
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      12-14-2005
Toby Inkster wrote:

> Els wrote:
>
>> The thing is though, that with deeplinking, they don't visit your
>> house.
>>
>> One person visited your house, and constructed outlets for hobnobs
>> from your hobnob-room. Big hoovers sucking the hobnobs from their
>> packages and spitting them out at the other end, which happens to be
>> outside your house or even in the next street.

>
> Nah. Providing a URL to visitors is not analogous to hoovering up
> free hobnobs -- it's analogous to providing directions to a source of free
> hobnobs.


Sounds like we're talking about two different things. A direct link
with an href to an image is one thing, but I thought we were
discussing placing someone else's images in a page through an <img>
element, passing the picture off as one's own, and wasting my
bandwidth. I have a large picture of lions on my site. The amount of
bandwidth that takes by my own visitors is fine. But I don't like the
amount of bandwidth it costs from the MySpace users who have hotlinked
my largest image as their backgrounds, which all their MySpace friends
are looking at on a daily basis.

> It's still me that's giving away the hobnobs and I can choose to
> stop giving them away, or restrict access, whenever I want.


Of course. No MySpace user is seeing my lions on their homepages
anymore. But taking someone else's stuff is still theft, whether the
door was locked or not.

--
Els http://locusmeus.com/
Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito.
- Renato Russo -
 
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cwdjrxyz@yahoo.com
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      12-14-2005

Noel S Pamfree wrote:
> Can anyone tell me if it is possible to place a graphic on a website which
> is held on another server?


Yes, it is possible to link to a graphic, music file, or many other
things on another domain that may be on the same or another server. I
have both a .net and .info domain, both on the same server, and I link
from one to the other all of the time. The control panel handles both
domains at the same time, and would handle yet another, if needed.

Where a problem may arise is when someone else with a very popular site
hot links to one or many of your files, especially very high resolution
images or massive streaming audio or video files. People have been know
to put up image sites, where all of the images are hot links from other
sites. The same goes for music and video. I have a few streaming audio
and video files for broadband that run up to 80 MB each. Although I
have paid for several GB a month of bandwidth - bandwidth now is dirt
cheap on some commercial hosts - if I exceed this I will have to pay a
stiff extra fee. To prevent this, I have a throttle policy that will
limit the bandwidth to prevent this until I have time to correct the
problem. Also, if you store many massive image or media files in the
same directory, do not allow access to this directory. Else someone,
knowing the URL of just one file in the directory, can get in to view
all files there and perhaps hot link to some or all of the files there
for one of their sites. Also my domains keep track of hits to various
files. If you find that someone is hot linking to a massive file in
great excess, you just change the file URL. Then you replace the
original URL with another image or media file of small byte size. This
usually stops the hot linking very rapidly. Some people use a "stolen
from" message, and some use something extremely rude or in very poor
taste.

 
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