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Firefox Web Developer Toolbar Extension

 
 
Blinky the Shark
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      08-26-2005
Mark Parnell wrote:
> Previously in alt.html, Blinky the Shark <(E-Mail Removed)> said:
>
> [http://jennifermadden.com/scripts/Vi...edSource.html]
>> http://blinkynet.net/stuff/comp/vrs.gif
>>
>> It's NBD, but certainly is curious.

>
> Certainly is - doesn't do that here (Win2k, VRS 1.0.01).


Probably a platform issue.

>> Incidentally, those two little icons to the left of the address box
>> are from a nice little extension named Diggler:
>>
>> http://diggler.mozdev.org/

>
> Some sort of conflict between the 2 extensions perhaps?


I doubt it. I just mentioned the Diggler extension because its icons
were visible in that screencap.

<clickety>

Nope. Address box is farkled with Diggler disabled.

<clickety>

Testing on my own home page.

Yikes! It's jamming a 29kb text file into the address box!

And that index.html file is only 8kb on disk.

The beginning of the 29kb it's jamming into the address box is (there's
no white space anywhere in the file):

data:text/html; charset=UTF-8,<pre style="white-space:
-moz-pre-wrap;">%0A%26lt%3Bhead%3E%0A%3Cspan%20style%3D%22c olor%3A%235
56b2f%3B%22%3E%26lt%3Btitle%3E%0A...

and the end is:

....span%3E%0A%26lt%3B/p%3E%3C/div%3E%0A%26lt%3B/div%3E%3C/div%3E%0A%0A%26lt%3B/body
%3E%0A</pre>

So it appears to be slapping its own markup (for its rendering of the
page's actual rendering <g>) into the address box.

Bizarre!


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Blinky Linux Registered User 297263

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Neredbojias
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      08-26-2005
With neither quill nor qualm, Blinky the Shark quothed:

> Mark Parnell wrote:
> > Previously in alt.html, WD10 <.> said:
> >
> >> Thanks for that. I fixed it. If you know of any other good extensions for
> >> web development let me know and I'll add them to the site.

> >
> > http://prefbar.mozdev.org/ - very handy for testing sites with/without
> > Javascript, etc. I know some of those can be done through the web
> > developer toolbar, but I find the prefbar easier to use, plus it has the
> > ability to disable more things, such as Flash.
> > http://livehttpheaders.mozdev.org/ - view the HTTP headers for a page in
> > the page properties dialogue.
> > http://jennifermadden.com/scripts/Vi...redSource.html - makes the
> > source code much nicer to read. Kind of a cross between the DOM
> > Inspector and View Source.

>
> I like that one, too. But it does the weirdest thing to my address box:
>
> http://blinkynet.net/stuff/comp/vrs.gif
>
> It's NBD, but certainly is curious.


I've done that (in Mozilla/Firefox) with some of my own pages by having
a real long search string to append to the original address.

--
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Blinky the Shark
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      08-26-2005
Roy Schestowitz wrote:

> Personally, I always prefer to learn tools by trial-and-error, hands-on
> experience or interactive tutorials, albeit that's rare. Anybody who
> designs for the Web (even just with tables and without proper Web
> standards) must install that extension. It potentially saves a lot of time
> of looking at the source and trying to keep track on hierarchy... and
> that's just of the many powers of the Web Developer Extension. Blinky told
> me about it IIRC...


Quite possible; I've been known to promote it in here.


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Roy Schestowitz
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      08-26-2005
___/ On Friday 26 August 2005 08:06, [Els] wrote : \___

> Toby Inkster wrote:
>
>> Roy Schestowitz wrote:
>>
>>> Anybody who designs for the Web (even just with tables and without
>>> proper Web standards) must install that extension.

>>
>> Would be kind of tricky for me, as I don't have Firefox on my main
>> development system. (Well, not a version that's actually *called*
>> "Firefox" anyway -- I have Firebird 0.6.x.)

>
> I have that one too, but you can install the newer Firefox versions
> next to it without a problem.
> (guessing you know that, but have some reason not to )


What is _your_ reason, Els? Firebird for testing purposes?

--
Roy S. Schestowitz "Hack to learn, don't learn to hack"
http://Schestowitz.com
 
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Els
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      08-26-2005
Roy Schestowitz wrote:

> ___/ On Friday 26 August 2005 08:06, [Els] wrote : \___
>
>> Toby Inkster wrote:
>>
>>> Roy Schestowitz wrote:
>>>
>>>> Anybody who designs for the Web (even just with tables and without
>>>> proper Web standards) must install that extension.
>>>
>>> Would be kind of tricky for me, as I don't have Firefox on my main
>>> development system. (Well, not a version that's actually *called*
>>> "Firefox" anyway -- I have Firebird 0.6.x.)

>>
>> I have that one too, but you can install the newer Firefox versions
>> next to it without a problem.
>> (guessing you know that, but have some reason not to )

>
> What is _your_ reason, Els? Firebird for testing purposes?


More than one reason, but indeed, testing is one of them.
Another one: I still find it easy to have several browsers (with
different icons) open at the same time for different purposes.

Alt-tab between for instance Firefox and Firebird is quicker than
Ctrl-tab-tab-tab-tab between two tabs in Firefox. I usually have about
10 tabs open in Firefox, anywhere between 6 and 20 in Opera, and only
a couple in Firebird en sometimes even IE is open in one or two
windows.

Outlook Express links open in Firebird, Dialog links open in Opera.
Firefox is my main work-browser. IE is only used when I really want to
see something in Flash, and for testing my own work.

The rest of my browsers are really only used when a site is about
finished, and I need to check for weird glitches and bugs.

--
Els http://locusmeus.com/
Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito.
- Renato Russo -
Now playing: Faith No More - Epic
 
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Roy Schestowitz
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      08-26-2005
__/ On Friday 26 August 2005 10:10, [Els] wrote : \__

> Roy Schestowitz wrote:
>
>> ___/ On Friday 26 August 2005 08:06, [Els] wrote : \___
>>
>>> Toby Inkster wrote:
>>>
>>>> Roy Schestowitz wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Anybody who designs for the Web (even just with tables and without
>>>>> proper Web standards) must install that extension.
>>>>
>>>> Would be kind of tricky for me, as I don't have Firefox on my main
>>>> development system. (Well, not a version that's actually *called*
>>>> "Firefox" anyway -- I have Firebird 0.6.x.)
>>>
>>> I have that one too, but you can install the newer Firefox versions
>>> next to it without a problem.
>>> (guessing you know that, but have some reason not to )

>>
>> What is _your_ reason, Els? Firebird for testing purposes?

>
> More than one reason, but indeed, testing is one of them.
> Another one: I still find it easy to have several browsers (with
> different icons) open at the same time for different purposes.
>
> Alt-tab between for instance Firefox and Firebird is quicker than
> Ctrl-tab-tab-tab-tab between two tabs in Firefox. I usually have about
> 10 tabs open in Firefox, anywhere between 6 and 20 in Opera, and only
> a couple in Firebird en sometimes even IE is open in one or two
> windows.



You can improve that ALT+TAB (+TAB^n).

http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2004/11/26/test/

That was in November last year. I use it all the time. It becomes very
natural -- mentally matching screen positions to a number.

If you test pages as you edit, you might also wish to run auto-refresh.


> Outlook Express...



You, madam, made me spill my Coke. I hope you're satisfied.

*smile* just sarcasm... I like that particular joke... please don't
misinterpret it. I used OE myself until last year.


> ...links open in Firebird, Dialog links open in Opera.
> Firefox is my main work-browser. IE is only used when I really want to
> see something in Flash, and for testing my own work.
>
> The rest of my browsers are really only used when a site is about
> finished, and I need to check for weird glitches and bugs.



Sounds more or less like what I do myself. It is hard to design and test
sites with just one browser these days. O/S likewise and it will get worse
as Windows is losing its share and diversity is better recognised.
css-discuss is full of (or plagued with) these "site check please" and "Mac
IE5 test"...

Roy

--
Roy S. Schestowitz "Hack to learn, don't learn to hack"
http://Schestowitz.com
 
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Els
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      08-26-2005
Roy Schestowitz wrote:

>>> What is _your_ reason, Els? Firebird for testing purposes?

>>
>> More than one reason, but indeed, testing is one of them.
>> Another one: I still find it easy to have several browsers (with
>> different icons) open at the same time for different purposes.
>>
>> Alt-tab between for instance Firefox and Firebird is quicker than
>> Ctrl-tab-tab-tab-tab between two tabs in Firefox. I usually have about
>> 10 tabs open in Firefox, anywhere between 6 and 20 in Opera, and only
>> a couple in Firebird en sometimes even IE is open in one or two
>> windows.

>
> You can improve that ALT+TAB (+TAB^n).
>
> http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2004/11/26/test/


Well, I knew of that possibility already. (I was one of the technical
reviewers for "Firefox and Thunderbird Garage")
But I don't like it much, as I have then to count which number the
wanted tab has. After having more than 6 tabs open, this is too much
hassle. I prefer Opera's method in that: ctrl-tab will switch between
the last two openened, regardsless of how many tabs are physically
between them.

> That was in November last year. I use it all the time. It becomes very
> natural -- mentally matching screen positions to a number.


It would work if they remained in the same position all day, yes.

> If you test pages as you edit, you might also wish to run auto-refresh.


I've thought of that, but I like to see what is changed as I refresh,
and it's only one keyboard press anyway.

>> Outlook Express...

>
> You, madam, made me spill my Coke.


That should have been rum&coke really - and thanks for reminding me, I
need to buy some coke today to go with my rum

> I hope you're satisfied.


Yes I am, thank you for asking
And I didn't even do it on purpose - I really use OE for mail.

> *smile* just sarcasm... I like that particular joke... please don't
> misinterpret it.


Well, I did misinterpret it: I really thought I had you spill your
coke... you shouldn't have spoiled it by saying it was a joke

> I used OE myself until last year.


Why did you ditch it? Thunderbird? I've done that for a short while,
but didn't like it.

>> ...links open in Firebird, Dialog links open in Opera.
>> Firefox is my main work-browser. IE is only used when I really want to
>> see something in Flash, and for testing my own work.
>>
>> The rest of my browsers are really only used when a site is about
>> finished, and I need to check for weird glitches and bugs.

>
> Sounds more or less like what I do myself. It is hard to design and test
> sites with just one browser these days. O/S likewise and it will get worse
> as Windows is losing its share and diversity is better recognised.


Yup, I got a SuSE box to help me out, and am on the lookout for a
secondhand Mac.

> css-discuss is full of (or plagued with) these "site check please" and "Mac
> IE5 test"...


I remember the days when I had to ask someone else to check in
Netscape - I was on a Win95 box with 8MB RAM, and no room for more
than IE5.5. Only 2.5 years ago - time flies...

--
Els http://locusmeus.com/
Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito.
- Renato Russo -
Now playing: Mr. Big - Green Tinted Sixties Mind
 
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Roy Schestowitz
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Posts: n/a
 
      08-26-2005
__/ On Friday 26 August 2005 11:43, [Els] wrote : \__

> Roy Schestowitz wrote:
>
>>>> What is _your_ reason, Els? Firebird for testing purposes?
>>>
>>> More than one reason, but indeed, testing is one of them.
>>> Another one: I still find it easy to have several browsers (with
>>> different icons) open at the same time for different purposes.
>>>
>>> Alt-tab between for instance Firefox and Firebird is quicker than
>>> Ctrl-tab-tab-tab-tab between two tabs in Firefox. I usually have about
>>> 10 tabs open in Firefox, anywhere between 6 and 20 in Opera, and only
>>> a couple in Firebird en sometimes even IE is open in one or two
>>> windows.

>>
>> You can improve that ALT+TAB (+TAB^n).
>>
>> http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2004/11/26/test/

>
> Well, I knew of that possibility already. (I was one of the technical
> reviewers for "Firefox and Thunderbird Garage")



I am sincerely impressed, yet by no means surprised.


> But I don't like it much, as I have then to count which number the
> wanted tab has. After having more than 6 tabs open, this is too much
> hassle. I prefer Opera's method in that: ctrl-tab will switch between
> the last two openened, regardsless of how many tabs are physically
> between them.



I guess it is all a matter of habit. I think I would have spent a lot of
'brain RAM' keeping track of which tab I opened last. I then risk getting
that information overload threshold, which distracts me. In practice, I
only navigate using the digits for tabs 1 to 3, maybe 4. That's where I
usually have fundamental stuff like my portal and a CMS.


>> That was in November last year. I use it all the time. It becomes very
>> natural -- mentally matching screen positions to a number.

>
> It would work if they remained in the same position all day, yes.



CTRL+Home gets me to my portal where everything remains in the same position
-- all 300 or so links that are logically categorised. I can't use the
Internet without my portal anymore. When my site is down, I must use a
local copy of it.


>> If you test pages as you edit, you might also wish to run auto-refresh.

>
> I've thought of that, but I like to see what is changed as I refresh,
> and it's only one keyboard press anyway.



I agree.


>>> Outlook Express...

>>
>> You, madam, made me spill my Coke.

>
> That should have been rum&coke really - and thanks for reminding me, I
> need to buy some coke today to go with my rum



See comment that begs to be made... yet to be articulated below...


>> I hope you're satisfied.

>
> Yes I am, thank you for asking
> And I didn't even do it on purpose - I really use OE for mail.



People should spend money on rum, not expensive operating systems and
commercial software.


>> *smile* just sarcasm... I like that particular joke... please don't
>> misinterpret it.

>
> Well, I did misinterpret it: I really thought I had you spill your
> coke... you shouldn't have spoiled it by saying it was a joke



I was fairly sure it would be offensive. Text is too ambiguous -- no tone of
voice.


>> I used OE myself until last year.

>
> Why did you ditch it? Thunderbird? I've done that for a short while,
> but didn't like it.



Until I moved to Thunderbird, I had to manually export all my monthly
archives on the 1st of each month. I chose to export it to HTML using a
Ruby script. Having your mail locked in a proprietary format is risky.
Thunderbird with all the enhancements gives me more than Outlook (not
Express) has ever offered me. Oh, and it's free...


>>> ...links open in Firebird, Dialog links open in Opera.
>>> Firefox is my main work-browser. IE is only used when I really want to
>>> see something in Flash, and for testing my own work.
>>>
>>> The rest of my browsers are really only used when a site is about
>>> finished, and I need to check for weird glitches and bugs.

>>
>> Sounds more or less like what I do myself. It is hard to design and test
>> sites with just one browser these days. O/S likewise and it will get
>> worse as Windows is losing its share and diversity is better recognised.

>
> Yup, I got a SuSE box to help me out, and am on the lookout for a
> secondhand Mac.



Luckily I have one at work. It is only used as an E-mail client at the
moment, but it's also good for testing pages.

Good luck with SuSE. I tried many distros, but SuSE (which I use most of the
time) is king.


>> css-discuss is full of (or plagued with) these "site check please" and
>> "Mac IE5 test"...

>
> I remember the days when I had to ask someone else to check in
> Netscape - I was on a Win95 box with 8MB RAM, and no room for more
> than IE5.5. Only 2.5 years ago - time flies...



It does. I miss the older days of computing.

Roy

--
Roy S. Schestowitz "ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI"
http://Schestowitz.com
 
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Els
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      08-26-2005
Roy Schestowitz wrote:

>>> http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2004/11/26/test/

>>
>> Well, I knew of that possibility already. (I was one of the technical
>> reviewers for "Firefox and Thunderbird Garage")

>
> I am sincerely impressed, yet by no means surprised.


Thank you </blush>

>> But I don't like it much, as I have then to count which number the
>> wanted tab has. After having more than 6 tabs open, this is too much
>> hassle. I prefer Opera's method in that: ctrl-tab will switch between
>> the last two openened, regardsless of how many tabs are physically
>> between them.

>
> I guess it is all a matter of habit. I think I would have spent a lot of
> 'brain RAM' keeping track of which tab I opened last. I then risk getting
> that information overload threshold, which distracts me.


Well, I ususally only switch between two, max 3 at one time - so the
brain power is saved by not having to deal with the 20-odd other tabs
that are open at the same time

> In practice, I
> only navigate using the digits for tabs 1 to 3, maybe 4. That's where I
> usually have fundamental stuff like my portal and a CMS.


Big difference - only using 1 to 4 tabs, yes, easy to remember which
tab number you need.

> CTRL+Home gets me to my portal where everything remains in the same position
> -- all 300 or so links that are logically categorised. I can't use the
> Internet without my portal anymore. When my site is down, I must use a
> local copy of it.


I have started such a page, for the most used links. Still should add
more links to it really. Much easier than relying on the browser,
especially when you use different computers. I now have
favourites/bookmarks spread over three browsers - note to self: really
should get them on that portal page...

>>>> Outlook Express...
>>>
>>> You, madam, made me spill my Coke.

>>
>> That should have been rum&coke really - and thanks for reminding me, I
>> need to buy some coke today to go with my rum

>
> See comment that begs to be made... yet to be articulated below...
>
>> And I didn't even do it on purpose - I really use OE for mail.

>
> People should spend money on rum, not expensive operating systems and
> commercial software.




Well, rum could easily become the more expensive of the two. I bought
WinXP, and Trillian Pro. I've got a 'borrowed' copy of an expensive
graphic program, and the rest is all open source and share- and
freeware.

>> Well, I did misinterpret it: I really thought I had you spill your
>> coke... you shouldn't have spoiled it by saying it was a joke

>
> I was fairly sure it would be offensive. Text is too ambiguous -- no tone of
> voice.


I'm not easily offended
(and I was asking for it - using OE! <g>)

>>> I used OE myself until last year.

>>
>> Why did you ditch it? Thunderbird? I've done that for a short while,
>> but didn't like it.

>
> Until I moved to Thunderbird, I had to manually export all my monthly
> archives on the 1st of each month.


Either you have a small harddisk, or you get a very big lot of mail to
archive! Last time I archived is months ago, and my inbox currently
holds 743 messages (including today's spam). Anything I need archived
goes in subfolders, which I occasionally store elsewhere on the HD, or
on CD.

> I chose to export it to HTML using a Ruby script.


Is that easy to do? My mails are in flat text, but there are HTML
attachments and pics and sound files and stuff. How is that all stored
then?

> Having your mail locked in a proprietary format is risky.
> Thunderbird with all the enhancements gives me more than Outlook (not
> Express) has ever offered me. Oh, and it's free...


I wouldn't pay for Outlook either - but I'm happy with OE. I'd prefer
Dialog to take care of my mail though, but it lacks a couple of things
to be useful as a mailclient for me.
I hate Thunderbird's 'extra line' bug. (extra empty line between
different quoted bits)

> Good luck with SuSE. I tried many distros, but SuSE (which I use most of the
> time) is king.


Queen

--
Els http://locusmeus.com/
Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito.
- Renato Russo -
Now playing: Living Colour - Love Rears Its Ugly Head
 
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Roy Schestowitz
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Posts: n/a
 
      08-26-2005
__/ On Friday 26 August 2005 15:08, [Els] wrote : \__

> Roy Schestowitz wrote:
>
>>>> http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2004/11/26/test/
>>>
>>> Well, I knew of that possibility already. (I was one of the technical
>>> reviewers for "Firefox and Thunderbird Garage")

>>
>> I am sincerely impressed, yet by no means surprised.

>
> Thank you </blush>
>
>>> But I don't like it much, as I have then to count which number the
>>> wanted tab has. After having more than 6 tabs open, this is too much
>>> hassle. I prefer Opera's method in that: ctrl-tab will switch between
>>> the last two openened, regardsless of how many tabs are physically
>>> between them.

>>
>> I guess it is all a matter of habit. I think I would have spent a lot of
>> 'brain RAM' keeping track of which tab I opened last. I then risk getting
>> that information overload threshold, which distracts me.

>
> Well, I ususally only switch between two, max 3 at one time - so the
> brain power is saved by not having to deal with the 20-odd other tabs
> that are open at the same time



Do you not suffer from that spatial clutter? I bet you cannot read the tab
titles, not even with a high-resolution dual-head. Firefox doesn't allow
for vertical alignment of tabs, yet. Must be like hell working on your
browser... CTRL+W+W+W+W+W+W+W+W+W+W+W+W+W+W+W+W+W+W+W, which luckily in
Firefox requires 2 persistent keystrokes (Linux at the least).


>> In practice, I
>> only navigate using the digits for tabs 1 to 3, maybe 4. That's where I
>> usually have fundamental stuff like my portal and a CMS.

>
> Big difference - only using 1 to 4 tabs, yes, easy to remember which
> tab number you need.



It's usually quite consistent too, which serves as a mnemonic. When I come
to think of it, it is reminiscent of my placement of applications on the
display. XMMS between screen 1 and 2, desktop junk on the left, browser on
the right screen (which has better definition) and the rest is tossed at
the left.


>> CTRL+Home gets me to my portal where everything remains in the same
>> position -- all 300 or so links that are logically categorised. I can't
>> use the Internet without my portal anymore. When my site is down, I must
>> use a local copy of it.

>
> I have started such a page, for the most used links. Still should add
> more links to it really. Much easier than relying on the browser,
> especially when you use different computers. I now have
> favourites/bookmarks spread over three browsers - note to self: really
> should get them on that portal page...



At risk of crossing the line onto self-promotion, many things I learned from
experience are here < http://www.schestowitz.com/Portal/ >.


>>>>> Outlook Express...
>>>>
>>>> You, madam, made me spill my Coke.
>>>
>>> That should have been rum&coke really - and thanks for reminding me, I
>>> need to buy some coke today to go with my rum

>>
>> See comment that begs to be made... yet to be articulated below...
>>
>>> And I didn't even do it on purpose - I really use OE for mail.

>>
>> People should spend money on rum, not expensive operating systems and
>> commercial software.

>
>
>
> Well, rum could easily become the more expensive of the two. I bought
> WinXP, and Trillian Pro. I've got a 'borrowed' copy of an expensive
> graphic program, and the rest is all open source and share- and
> freeware.



Hmmmm... if only I could find shareware beer...


>>> Well, I did misinterpret it: I really thought I had you spill your
>>> coke... you shouldn't have spoiled it by saying it was a joke

>>
>> I was fairly sure it would be offensive. Text is too ambiguous -- no tone
>> of voice.

>
> I'm not easily offended
> (and I was asking for it - using OE! <g>)



I am just as guilty as you are. I have just set up a professor with OE. I
told him that he should use Thunderbird, but sitting here at the office
downloading and installing it would have been bad use of my time. *grin*

....at least I told him it was cr*p... same about Windows...


>>>> I used OE myself until last year.
>>>
>>> Why did you ditch it? Thunderbird? I've done that for a short while,
>>> but didn't like it.

>>
>> Until I moved to Thunderbird, I had to manually export all my monthly
>> archives on the 1st of each month.

>
> Either you have a small harddisk, or you get a very big lot of mail to
> archive! Last time I archived is months ago, and my inbox currently
> holds 743 messages (including today's spam). Anything I need archived
> goes in subfolders, which I occasionally store elsewhere on the HD, or
> on CD.



CD's are hard to mirror, so I keep everything on a single physical
hard-drive. My obsession with archives sometimes scares me.


>> I chose to export it to HTML using a Ruby script.

>
> Is that easy to do? My mails are in flat text, but there are HTML
> attachments and pics and sound files and stuff. How is that all stored
> then?



It outputs rich HTML. Then again, by importing OE to Thunderbird, which is a
non-lossy conversion,>
> you get MBOX archives, which MHonArc, for instance, handles gracefully.



>> Having your mail locked in a proprietary format is risky.
>> Thunderbird with all the enhancements gives me more than Outlook (not
>> Express) has ever offered me. Oh, and it's free...

>
> I wouldn't pay for Outlook either - but I'm happy with OE. I'd prefer
> Dialog to take care of my mail though, but it lacks a couple of things
> to be useful as a mailclient for me.



As time goes by, I am beginning to lean towards Web-based because I back my
webspace up very frequently, it backs 'itself' up and it keeps mail away
from me. I remember the days when I woke up looking forward to mail in my
box. I am the complete opposite now.


> I hate Thunderbird's 'extra line' bug. (extra empty line between
> different quoted bits)



I never noticed that one. Perhaps it got fixed?


>> Good luck with SuSE. I tried many distros, but SuSE (which I use most of
>> the time) is king.

>
> Queen


*LOL*

http://www.schestowitz.com/IMG/roysuse.gif

--
Roy S. Schestowitz "How do I set my laser printer on stun?"
http://Schestowitz.com
 
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