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Leonard Blaisdell
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      08-01-2005
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
Blinky the Shark <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> SECOND Reply: Of *course* you saw my DC-3 page -- that was the one I
> linked with the hinky image rendering. D'oh. I missed the forest for
> the trees, and forgot that page was what I was talking about.


Of help and clueless when I did it Why did it work in *any* browser?

leo

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Leonard Blaisdell
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      08-01-2005
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
Blinky the Shark <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> Leonard Blaisdell wrote:


> > I think the B-52 "might" eclipse the
> > C-47/DC-3 service record over time, but I wouldn't bet on it.

>
> I believe it already has for US military length of service.


Oh, you are unquestionably correct. But for life of the aircraft, I'll
bet some DC-3's are still flying and will for some time. And not with
the rigorous maintainence that the B-52 has.

> http://blinkynet.net/stuff/turret1.jpg
> http://blinkynet.net/stuff/turret2.jpg
> http://blinkynet.net/stuff/turret3.jpg


Those have to be of Russian modifications of C-47s delivered by the
other Allies don't they? Perhaps the alphabet gave it away. I have never
seen anything like them.

> My first airplane ride was in a DC-3.


And if you take another, it may be your last
And now returning to alt.html, others may notice the links mentioned
above as proof of alt.html respectability.
Thanks Blinky. I really am interested in WWII. If you want to see
another side of what we learned in school, read Churchill's memoirs in
case you haven't. Block out about one to six months, depending on how
fast you read. I'd be interested in Stalin's WWII memoirs if someone
would direct me to them in English. I know Roosevelt's. I learned them
in school.

leo

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Blinky the Shark
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      08-01-2005
Leonard Blaisdell wrote:
> In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
> Blinky the Shark <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:


>> SECOND Reply: Of *course* you saw my DC-3 page -- that was the one I
>> linked with the hinky image rendering. D'oh. I missed the forest for
>> the trees, and forgot that page was what I was talking about.


> Of help and clueless when I did it Why did it work in *any* browser?


Huh? The image? Well, I don't see anything askew with the markup, and
nobody but me has reported it rendering with the wrong proportions.
Sample isn't large, three or four people here and a buddy I emailed
about it, I'll grant you.

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Els
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      08-01-2005
Blinky the Shark wrote:

> Mark Parnell wrote:
>> Previously in alt.html, Blinky the Shark <(E-Mail Removed)> said:
>>> Mark Parnell wrote:
>>>> Try clearing your cache?

>
>>> Not even enabled.

>
>> No idea then. What version of Opera?

>
> 7.23. But this is the first time I've seen it; I always check my
> pages with Opera; none of these pages are new.


I think it's just 7.23 that does that then. I've just checked (under
WinXP) versions 6.06, 7.01, 7.11, 7.51 and 8.00, and none of these
squash the image. I do remember having seen the effect of squashing
before though, IIRC that was on Barbara de Zoete's site. Maybe it's a
flaw only in Opera 7.23?

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Sonhos vem. Sonhos vo. O resto imperfeito.
- Renato Russo -
 
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Blinky the Shark
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      08-01-2005
Leonard Blaisdell wrote:
> In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, Blinky the
> Shark <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:


>> Leonard Blaisdell wrote:


>> > I think the B-52 "might" eclipse the C-47/DC-3 service record over
>> > time, but I wouldn't bet on it.


>> I believe it already has for US military length of service.


> Oh, you are unquestionably correct. But for life of the aircraft, I'll
> bet some DC-3's are still flying and will for some time. And not with
> the rigorous maintainence that the B-52 has.


>> http://blinkynet.net/stuff/turret1.jpg
>> http://blinkynet.net/stuff/turret2.jpg
>> http://blinkynet.net/stuff/turret3.jpg


> Those have to be of Russian modifications of C-47s delivered by the
> other Allies don't they? Perhaps the alphabet gave it away. I have
> never seen anything like them.


I sent away to Russia for a May 1999 issue of a magazine with a feature
on Russian mods during WWII, yes. Thus, Russian text -- and Russian
captions (which, oddly enough have English translations, as you see,
even though nothing else is in anything but Russian. I think those
are Russian mods on Russian licensed builds; I think I've read
something about the factory being one of the ones that they had to move
east as Barbarossa moved across western Russia.

The Russian model everyone talks about is the Li-2. Scroll down to
Section 4:

http://www.faqs.org/docs/air/avc47.html

>> My first airplane ride was in a DC-3.


> And if you take another, it may be your last




> And now returning to alt.html, others may notice the links mentioned
> above as proof of alt.html respectability.


Eh?

> Thanks Blinky. I really am interested in WWII. If you want to see
> another side of what we learned in school, read Churchill's memoirs in
> case you haven't. Block out about one to six months, depending on how


I know that I'd not stick with something that long; personal flaw,
unfortunately.

> fast you read. I'd be interested in Stalin's WWII memoirs if someone
> would direct me to them in English. I know Roosevelt's. I learned them
> in school.


Last couple of books I've read, and good ones (if not on the scale of
Churchills volumes!):

"Armageddon: The Battle For Germany, 1944-1945) (Max Hastings, 2004,
ISBN 0-375-41433-9)

"Roosevelt's Secret War: FDR and World War II Espionage" (Joseph
Persico, 2001. ISBN 0-375-50246-7)

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Els
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      08-01-2005
Els wrote:

> Blinky the Shark wrote:
>
>> Mark Parnell wrote:
>>> Previously in alt.html, Blinky the Shark <(E-Mail Removed)> said:
>>>> Mark Parnell wrote:
>>>>> Try clearing your cache?

>>
>>>> Not even enabled.

>>
>>> No idea then. What version of Opera?

>>
>> 7.23. But this is the first time I've seen it; I always check my
>> pages with Opera; none of these pages are new.

>
> I think it's just 7.23 that does that then. I've just checked (under
> WinXP) versions 6.06, 7.01, 7.11, 7.51 and 8.00, and none of these
> squash the image. I do remember having seen the effect of squashing
> before though, IIRC that was on Barbara de Zoete's site. Maybe it's a
> flaw only in Opera 7.23?


Found it:
http://groups.google.nl/group/alt.ht...f6a947a1b54dd1

Haven't checked if it's the same thing on your site though, I don't
have 7.23 to test with

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Sonhos vem. Sonhos vo. O resto imperfeito.
- Renato Russo -
 
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Els
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      08-01-2005
Els wrote:

>> I do remember having seen the effect of squashing
>> before though, IIRC that was on Barbara de Zoete's site. Maybe it's a
>> flaw only in Opera 7.23?

>
> Found it:


Not. That was in IE, not Opera.
Sorry..

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Els http://locusmeus.com/
Sonhos vem. Sonhos vo. O resto imperfeito.
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Blinky the Shark
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      08-01-2005
Els wrote:
> Blinky the Shark wrote:


>> Mark Parnell wrote:
>>> Previously in alt.html, Blinky the Shark <(E-Mail Removed)> said:
>>>> Mark Parnell wrote:
>>>>> Try clearing your cache?


>>>> Not even enabled.


>>> No idea then. What version of Opera?


>> 7.23. But this is the first time I've seen it; I always check my
>> pages with Opera; none of these pages are new.


> I think it's just 7.23 that does that then. I've just checked (under
> WinXP) versions 6.06, 7.01, 7.11, 7.51 and 8.00, and none of these


You are Ms. Opera! Thanks, Els.

> squash the image. I do remember having seen the effect of squashing
> before though, IIRC that was on Barbara de Zoete's site. Maybe it's a
> flaw only in Opera 7.23?


But for me, the odd thing is that it wasn't doing that when I put the
page up.

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Blinky the Shark
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      08-01-2005
Els wrote:
> Els wrote:


>> Blinky the Shark wrote:


>>> Mark Parnell wrote:
>>>> Previously in alt.html, Blinky the Shark <(E-Mail Removed)>
>>>> said:
>>>>> Mark Parnell wrote:
>>>>>> Try clearing your cache?


>>>>> Not even enabled.


>>>> No idea then. What version of Opera?


>>> 7.23. But this is the first time I've seen it; I always check my
>>> pages with Opera; none of these pages are new.


>> I think it's just 7.23 that does that then. I've just checked (under
>> WinXP) versions 6.06, 7.01, 7.11, 7.51 and 8.00, and none of these
>> squash the image. I do remember having seen the effect of squashing
>> before though, IIRC that was on Barbara de Zoete's site. Maybe it's a
>> flaw only in Opera 7.23?


> Found it: http://groups.google.nl/group/alt.ht...f6a947a1b54dd1


<reading it>

Well, I don't have any width:auto or height:auto anywhere, but I do have
an .img selector (is that a selector?) in my CSS, so I removed that line
temporarily and the image remained squashed.

> Haven't checked if it's the same thing on your site though, I don't
> have 7.23 to test with


I just found this. Same issue, and if you scroll down to the post
stamped "9:16 am on July 23, 2004" you'll not only find OP is using
7.23, but something he thinks is behind the squash:

http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum83/4171.htm

"I've actually just worked out what it's doing.. it's making the borders
around the images the dimentions that the image is define.. - I just
increased the padding on my style sheet to 20.. and opera is now showing
my thumbnails as little skinny lines. - uurgh.. any ideas on how to code
around this?"

Well, I have three styles for images -- one w/o borders, two with.

As I look back, here, the two images I saw this problem with are both
using one of those bordered image styles -- and both of those styles
have padding:10px . If I reduce that padding to 0px, the squash goes
away.

Opera is, indeed, vertically rendering the image-AND-padding to fit the
value of the image height attribute. As I vary the padding from 0
through 5 to 10 pixels, the height of the image-AND-padding stays the
same, and the padding increases, squashing the image. (Something else
happens with the *horizontal* dimensions, but I don't see the same
consistency in it.

I caught this with a very small image -- 50h x 42w. The squash is not
as extreme on larger images, because the 10px padding is much smaller
relative to the image height. If Opera steals 20 (10 x 2) pixels from
the height of an image that's 200 pixels high, the squash is a lot
smaller proportion of image height than on the 50px-high image where I
first noticed this.

Also, I noted early on that my logo *isn't* squashed. That's because it
doesn't use a style with padding.

Thanks for getting me going in the right direction, Els. Since it's
only happening with Opera 7.23, I'll probably not try to come up with a
workaround, unless I decide to tackle that as just an academic
challenge.

Either way, I can stop scratching my head.

Thanks, *again*.

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Toby Inkster
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      08-01-2005
Blinky the Shark wrote:

> How they look here, in Opera (bad) and FF (good):
> http://blinkynet.net/stuff/comp/squash.jpg


Let me guess... you're using a fairly old (pre-7.5) version of Opera?

At some point in the 7.2x releases, a bug was introduced whereby Opera
placed the padding and borders *inside* the image's height and width.

This was fixed in Opera 7.5.

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