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PHP and ASP why the difference?

 
 
David Dorward
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      07-17-2005
SpaceGirl wrote:

> Not to mention PHP is pretty much only a "web" language,


http://gtk.php.net/
http://uk.php.net/features.commandline

> Also, .Net being a "fixed" standard (it's not open source, there are
> only a few versions of it), you can easily expect a level of expertese
> from a .net programmer verses any other open language (js, php etc).


Err... frankly, that's rubbish. Being open source with an open development
process just means (in practical terms) that anyone can contribute. You
still end up with a stable API at the end of it.

(OK, an open source project can be forked - but then people need a
compelling reason to switch to the forked version - and one or the other of
the versions will usually die. Usually that one is the fork after failing
to attract more then two developers. When a fork is successful, its usually
due to something being very wrong with the original. If something is very
wrong with the original in a proprietry project, then it stays wrong ... or
dies and leaves all its users in the lurch)

How many versions of PHP are there?
How many versions of Perl are there?
How many versions of Ruby are there?
How many versions of Python are there?
(Where a "version" is a separate developement process that has
incompatibilities with others)

You mentioned JavaScript, well that has lots of different implementations
(but its a special case, since its an usually used as an add-on to web
browsers, which already had separate, and proprietary implementations, and
thus suffered through the browser wars), but now those bits of JavaScript
which are standardized are (AFAIK) pretty evenly implemented across modern
browsers. Besides - Javascript was not developed as an open source project,
nor, AFAIK, was the language design generated using an open developmenet
process.

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David Dorward <http://blog.dorward.me.uk/> <http://dorward.me.uk/>
Home is where the ~/.bashrc is
 
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Andy Dingley
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      07-17-2005
On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 20:39:19 +0200, "Greg N." <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>you have to look harder
>(and pay better) to get a good ASP programmer.


OTOH, finding a _good_ PHP developer, rather than a clueless code
monkey, is so difficult that many projects give up and switch platform.

Apart from maybe Perl, I've never seen such dreadful coding standards as
I have on typical PHP projects. It's no wonder that some sites have
banned its use as too insecure, when major products based on it (like
phpNuke) can turn out to be susceptible to SQL injection attacks and the
like.

This sort of thing is trivial to avoid happening. But the PHP market is
flooded by programmers who are barely worthy of the name and have only a
handful of years experience. Because of the small size and rapid speed
of modern projects, we're also seeing these people dropped into senior
design roles that they just don't have the experience for. Ten years
ago, there'd have been a senior developer on the team who already had
significant experience of a particular platform - these days it's just
monkeys led by monkeys.

 
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Andy Dingley
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      07-17-2005
On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 22:22:20 +0100, SpaceGirl
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Not to mention PHP is pretty much only a "web" language, while ASP.Net
>is part of a suite of related languages that can be used for web,
>applications, hardware etc etc etc...


Complete rubbish.

>Also, .Net being a "fixed" standard


It's not even a standard (nor is PHP for that matter)


>(it's not open source, there are
>only a few versions of it),


How many versions of _VB_ would you like ? M$oft are _terrible_ for
dumping major incompatible platform shifts onto their developers. But as
you're tied into them, you have no choice but to follow, bleating
plaintively.

>you can easily expect a level of expertese
>from a .net programmer verses any other open language (js, php etc).


Even more ridiculous.
 
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Travis Newbury
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      07-18-2005
Andy Dingley wrote:
> How many versions of _VB_ would you like ? M$oft are _terrible_ for
> dumping major incompatible platform shifts onto their developers. But as
> you're tied into them, you have no choice but to follow, bleating
> plaintively.


Actually until .net, each version of VB (and their other primary
development language C/C++) was completely compatible with code written
in a previous version. What major incompatible platform shifts are you
speaking of?

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JDS
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      07-18-2005
On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 22:27:25 +0100, SpaceGirl wrote:

> PHP is not standards based, and I've noticed a BIG backlash against


What standards? Microsoft? Is being MS-compliant the same as
"standards-based" (to you)?

PHP complies to many standards. But what standards are you referring to?

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Travis Newbury
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      07-18-2005
JDS wrote:
>>PHP is not standards based, and I've noticed a BIG backlash against

> What standards? Microsoft? Is being MS-compliant the same as
> "standards-based" (to you)?
> PHP complies to many standards. But what standards are you referring to?


ASP and PHP can both be used to produce HTML that is w3c standards
compliant, but what standards are either of you talking about?


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Leif K-Brooks
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      07-18-2005
JDS wrote:
> PHP complies to many standards. But what standards are you referring to?


Well, PHP certainly doesn't comply to the standard of having a
non-bloated core namespace.
 
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Mark Parnell
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      07-18-2005
Previously in alt.html, Leif K-Brooks <(E-Mail Removed)> said:

> Well, PHP certainly doesn't comply to the standard of having a
> non-bloated core namespace.


Do you have a link to those specs?

--
Mark Parnell
http://www.clarkecomputers.com.au
alt.html FAQ :: http://html-faq.com/
 
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Leif K-Brooks
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      07-18-2005
Mark Parnell wrote:
> Previously in alt.html, Leif K-Brooks <(E-Mail Removed)> said:
>
>>Well, PHP certainly doesn't comply to the standard of having a
>>non-bloated core namespace.

>
> Do you have a link to those specs?


<data:text/html,%44%6F%20%6E%6F%74%20%62%6C%6F%61%74%20%74%68 %69%6E%65%20%63%6F%72%65%20%6E%61%6D%65%73%70%61%6 3%65%2E>
 
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Mark Parnell
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      07-18-2005
Previously in alt.html, Leif K-Brooks <(E-Mail Removed)> said:

> <data:text/html,%44%6F%20%6E%6F%74%20%62%6C%6F%61%74%20%74%68 %69%6E%65%20%63%6F%72%65%20%6E%61%6D%65%73%70%61%6 3%65%2E>


Wow - "thine"? That's an old standard, then. Sure it hasn't been
superseded?

On a more serious note, I actually have no idea what you're talking
about, but is ASP any better? Do we even know since it's closed source?

--
Mark Parnell
http://www.clarkecomputers.com.au
alt.html FAQ :: http://html-faq.com/
 
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