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Creating a popup window

 
 
Els
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      05-21-2005
Andrew Donaldson wrote:

[new window inheriting history from old window - back in 1996]

> Arguably, it might help reduce the confusion of users who have windows
> opened automatically for them and don't realise, even if it might leave
> them with a plethora of windows open at the end of a browsing session.
> However, I think that it could be beneficial for "power-users."


I have never heard of it (I got on the web first time in 2002), but
maybe they got rid of it cause it could be a security risk?
I don't know much about cookies and sessions and anything related, but
istm that if in a new window you go back to where you were in the old
window, and log in somewhere, it could interfere with what you were
doing in the old window. I'm thinking filling out forms and credit
card stuff. No idea really

--
Els http://locusmeus.com/
Sonhos vem. Sonhos vo. O resto imperfeito.
- Renato Russo -
 
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Travis Newbury
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      05-21-2005
Andrew Donaldson wrote:

> Back in about 1996 I used a browser which, when the user chose to open a
> link in a new window, caused the new window to inherit the browser
> history from the old window...
> Arguably, it might help reduce the confusion of users who have windows
> opened automatically for them and don't realise, even if it might leave
> them with a plethora of windows open at the end of a browsing session.
> However, I think that it could be beneficial for "power-users."


I think that would be even more confusing. With the history not
working, you know you have to close the window to return. If the
history works, then you would be more likely have more orphaned windows
because there is no need to close the one you are in.
--
-=tn=-
 
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Andrew Donaldson
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      05-21-2005
Els wrote:

> [new window inheriting history from old window - back in 1996]
>
> I have never heard of it (I got on the web first time in 2002)


Wow - you got very good very quickly!

> but maybe they got rid of it cause it could be a security risk?


It wasn't consciously got rid of, development of it all but ceased in
about 1998 when the company (Acorn) stopped doing hardware and desktop
software and morphed into several other companies. The browser was
called, believe it or not, Browse - Acorn had a thing about minimalist,
descriptive names. I recall Browse was claimed to have the HTML 4
compliance and PNG support of any browser at the time, but don't now if
this was true.

> I don't know much about cookies and sessions and anything related, but
> istm that if in a new window you go back to where you were in the old
> window, and log in somewhere, it could interfere with what you were
> doing in the old window. I'm thinking filling out forms and credit
> card stuff. No idea really


Me neither That's a good point that hadn't occurred to me, but this
was before online transactions were commonplace anyway so it was maybe
not an issue then. I'd hope that such sessions were more robust than
that now anyway, since the same interference could be caused just by
opening a new window part way through a session and proceeding then
returning to the session in the original window, I think.

Andrew
 
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Els
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      05-21-2005
Andrew Donaldson wrote:

> Els wrote:
>
>> [new window inheriting history from old window - back in 1996]
>>
>> I have never heard of it (I got on the web first time in 2002)

>
> Wow - you got very good very quickly!


Thanks <g>

>> but maybe they got rid of it cause it could be a security risk?

>
> It wasn't consciously got rid of, development of it all but ceased in
> about 1998 when the company (Acorn) stopped doing hardware and desktop
> software and morphed into several other companies. The browser was
> called, believe it or not, Browse - Acorn had a thing about minimalist,
> descriptive names. I recall Browse was claimed to have the HTML 4
> compliance and PNG support of any browser at the time, but don't now if
> this was true.


Acorn - a name I hear mentioned by computer dinosaurs every now and
then

>> I don't know much about cookies and sessions and anything related, but
>> istm that if in a new window you go back to where you were in the old
>> window, and log in somewhere, it could interfere with what you were
>> doing in the old window. I'm thinking filling out forms and credit
>> card stuff. No idea really

>
> Me neither That's a good point that hadn't occurred to me, but this
> was before online transactions were commonplace anyway so it was maybe
> not an issue then. I'd hope that such sessions were more robust than
> that now anyway, since the same interference could be caused just by
> opening a new window part way through a session and proceeding then
> returning to the session in the original window, I think.


Well, recently I noticed some (to me odd) behaviour on a UK train
times site - I wanted to compare two different routes, and I decided
to look up one in one tab, and already the second in another tab.
As soon as I started the second one, the first one got aborted.

--
Els http://locusmeus.com/
Sonhos vem. Sonhos vo. O resto imperfeito.
- Renato Russo -
 
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Andrew Donaldson
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      05-21-2005
Els wrote:

> Acorn - a name I hear mentioned by computer dinosaurs every now and
> then


Quiet - you'll upset the 10 year old fossil in the corner that is my
most recent Acorn...

[separate browser windows handling the same session]

> Well, recently I noticed some (to me odd) behaviour on a UK train
> times site - I wanted to compare two different routes, and I decided
> to look up one in one tab, and already the second in another tab.
> As soon as I started the second one, the first one got aborted.


That particular problem doesn't sound like a browser/session issue:
pretty much everything to do with UK trains works like that

Andrew
 
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Els
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      05-21-2005
Andrew Donaldson wrote:

>> Well, recently I noticed some (to me odd) behaviour on a UK train
>> times site - I wanted to compare two different routes, and I decided
>> to look up one in one tab, and already the second in another tab.
>> As soon as I started the second one, the first one got aborted.

>
> That particular problem doesn't sound like a browser/session issue:
> pretty much everything to do with UK trains works like that


<g>

--
Els http://locusmeus.com/
Sonhos vem. Sonhos vo. O resto imperfeito.
- Renato Russo -
Now playing: Iggy & Kate - Candy
 
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Andrew Donaldson
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      05-21-2005
Travis Newbury wrote:

> Andrew Donaldson wrote:


[new window inherits browser history from old window]

>> Arguably, it might help reduce the confusion of users who have
>> windows opened automatically for them and don't realise, even if it
>> might leave them with a plethora of windows open at the end of a
>> browsing session.

>
> I think that would be even more confusing. With the history not
> working, you know you have to close the window to return.


You or I do maybe, but there appear to be many people who don't realise
this and could then happily carry on unaware that anything has happened.
This would then kind of raise the question "why bother opening a new
window?"

> If the history works, then you would be more likely have more
> orphaned windows because there is no need to close the one you are
> in.


Didn't I say that? However, unless users browse long enough to exhaust
the resources of their computer, they exit the browser or shut down, and
remain unaware of the orphans. Or the user is competent, browsing in
multiple tabs/windows anyway, and can navigate more conveniently than
before in some situations.

I'd certainly only suggest that the feature could/should be introduced
to cater for the latter case, and not solely to help users avoid
problems caused by authors foisting new windows on them.

Andrew
 
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Els
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      05-21-2005
Andrew Donaldson wrote:

> [new window inherits browser history from old window]
>
>> I think that would be even more confusing. With the history not
>> working, you know you have to close the window to return.

>
> You or I do maybe, but there appear to be many people who don't realise
> this and could then happily carry on unaware that anything has happened.
> This would then kind of raise the question "why bother opening a new
> window?"


Good Q

> However, unless users browse long enough to exhaust
> the resources of their computer, they exit the browser or shut down, and
> remain unaware of the orphans.


No, they will shut down their browser, and all of a sudden see another
site that they have come across before. They may think "wtf" or merely
"oh, forgot that one", and click the red cross on that one. Then
they'll see another window, and click the red cross, and then they
see...
This will go on for as many windows as they had opened without
realising it.

AFAIK no one shuts down the entire computer without first shutting
down all the browser windows. I sometimes do, but almost always I have
too many applications open, and WinXP just gives up half way, and I
have to repeat the action.

> Or the user is competent, browsing in
> multiple tabs/windows anyway, and can navigate more conveniently than
> before in some situations.


For such users it could be an option set in about:config.
I see little use for it myself though.

--
Els http://locusmeus.com/
Sonhos vem. Sonhos vo. O resto imperfeito.
- Renato Russo -
Now playing: Stealers Wheel - Stuck In The Middle
 
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Travis Newbury
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      05-21-2005
Andrew Donaldson wrote:
>> If the history works, then you would be more likely have more
>> orphaned windows because there is no need to close the one you are
>> in.

> Didn't I say that?


Yes, I was agreeing with you and re-enforcing your point.


--
-=tn=-
 
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Andrew Donaldson
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      05-21-2005
Els wrote:

[multiple browser windows]

> No, they will shut down their browser, and all of a sudden see another
> site that they have come across before. They may think "wtf" or merely
> "oh, forgot that one", and click the red cross on that one. Then
> they'll see another window, and click the red cross, and then they
> see...


You're right. For some reason (maybe that I don't use it for casual
browsing any more) I was thinking that IE could exit and shut all its
windows in one operation.

> For such users it could be an option set in about:config.
> I see little use for it myself though.


After a bit of thought, neither do I!

Andrew
 
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