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Link TARGET Attribute Enhancement

 
 
randau
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      05-13-2005
I would like to use the Link Target attribute, but am
inhibited by the likelihood of a newly opened browser window
completely hiding the Parent browser window. Thus offering
the illusion that you're still in the same browser, but the
Back Button no longer works.

I've done some experimentation and came up with the
conclusion that Microsoft's IE browser has a relatively
small likelihood of that happening, but that Netscape's
browsers have a considerably higher likelihood of it
happening.

MICROSOFT BROWSER:
The Microsoft IE-6 browser opens new Target windows using
the Partial Screen window size of the Parent browser whether
or not the Parent is currently in Full Screen mode. The
only way this becomes a problem is if the Parent's Partial
Screen window size virtually covers the entire screen. That
is the user has, at some point, dragged the Partial Screen
window boundaries out to fill the entire screen.

NETSCAPE BROWSERS:
Netscape's browsers open new Target windows using the size
of the Parent browser or a Background browser immediately
beneath the Parent browser, if one exists. The likelihood
of either being Full Screen is relatively high.

WHY USE THE TARGET ATTRIBUTE:
Some reasons that I would like to use the Target attribute
are: I like having separate browser windows opened when
linking to a different web site or to information that's
made more useful by being able to view two windows at the
same time or swap between them. More often than not, you
don't think about opening a link in another window yourself
till after the fact. You don't always know whether or not
the link is to another web site. It may just be an internal
link. Then there's how many users that don't bother or even
know how to open links in new windows.

As much as I'd like to use the Target attribute in my web
site postings, I think I'll cease doing so, because of the
significant probability of some users being subjected to
full screen or virtually full screen browser windows
completely covering the parent browser. And, then being
under the illusion that they're still in the same browser,
but the Back Button no longer works.

ENHANCING THE LINK TARGET ATTRIBUTE:
I'd like to see the link Target attribute enhanced with some
way of controlling the Target window so that "when opened"
it cannot be Full Screen Size nor a Partial Screen Window
that virtually covers the whole screen. What the user does
with the size after it's opened is their prerogative.

Also, reuse of open Target windows should load the newly
linked web page in Foreground instead of Background which
now makes it appear as though nothing's happened. There
ought to be some option for bringing it to the Foreground
when loaded with a new web page.

--
randau
Oregon, USA

I read and post from the Google Groups web site using a Spam
collecting email address that I don't use for anything else.
So if someone wants to contact me, go to the bottom of my
Home page: http://www.proaxis.com/~randau2/home.htm

 
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Joel Shepherd
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      05-14-2005
In article <(E-Mail Removed) .com>,
"randau" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Some reasons that I would like to use the Target attribute
> are: I like having separate browser windows opened when
> linking to a different web site ...


And what do your _visitors_ like?

Hint: if _you_ like having a separate window open, you can do that using
the browser of your choice. Check the documentation if you're not sure
how.

Your visitors who like having a separate window open can do the same, if
they like.

And your visitors who _don't_ want a separate window open can continue
using their browser just as they like ... as long as you don't use the
Target attribute at all.

Simple, isn't it?

--
Joel.
 
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Adrienne
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      05-14-2005
Gazing into my crystal ball I observed Joel Shepherd
<(E-Mail Removed)> writing in news:joelshep-E1B1A2.18531813052005
@news1.west.earthlink.net:

> In article <(E-Mail Removed) .com>,
> "randau" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> Some reasons that I would like to use the Target attribute
>> are: I like having separate browser windows opened when linking to a
>> different web site ...

>
> And what do your _visitors_ like?
>
> Hint: if _you_ like having a separate window open, you can do that using
> the browser of your choice. Check the documentation if you're not sure
> how.
>
> Your visitors who like having a separate window open can do the same, if
> they like.
>
> And your visitors who _don't_ want a separate window open can continue
> using their browser just as they like ... as long as you don't use the
> Target attribute at all.
>
> Simple, isn't it?
>


I, for one, do not like links opened up in a separate window or tab. I use
mousegestures a lot, and so I rarely look up to see the state of the back
button. There I am, happily gesturing, and nothing happens. Then I look
up and <voice family="Homer Simpson">Doh!</voice> the back button is
disabled.

--
Adrienne Boswell
http://www.cavalcade-of-coding.info
Please respond to the group so others can share
 
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Toby Inkster
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      05-14-2005
randau wrote:

> I'd like to see the link Target attribute enhanced with some
> way of controlling the Target window so that "when opened"
> it cannot be Full Screen Size nor a Partial Screen Window
> that virtually covers the whole screen.


Err... it can be:

<script type="text/javascript">
var h = screen.height * 3 / 5;
var w = screen.width * 3 / 5;
var winsettings = "height=" + h + ",width=" + w +
",scrolling,resizable,location,menubar,toolbar,sta tus";
</script>

<a href="foo" target="_blank"
onclick="return !window.open(this.href,this.target,winsettings);"> link</a>

Though I still don't recommend opening links in new windows on a normal
web page. I'll make an exception for "web applications", where sometimes
they can be handy, and you can expect the user to have a certain degree of
experience and training in using the application.

--
Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact

 
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Travis Newbury
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      05-14-2005
Joel Shepherd wrote:
>>Some reasons that I would like to use the Target attribute
>>are: I like having separate browser windows opened when
>>linking to a different web site ...

> And what do your _visitors_ like?


What if they liked it too? Would it be ok then?


> Simple, isn't it?


Yea it actually is

--
-=tn=-
 
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Arne
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      05-14-2005
Once upon a time *Travis Newbury* wrote:

> Joel Shepherd wrote:
>>>Some reasons that I would like to use the Target attribute
>>>are: I like having separate browser windows opened when
>>>linking to a different web site ...

> > And what do your _visitors_ like?

>
> What if they liked it too? Would it be ok then?


You droppet the answer to that, when you cited the abowe:
"Your visitors who like having a separate window open can do the same,
if they like".

Going from site to thruu links I find, gets me ending up with a lot of
windows to close when I like to end my surfing. Opening in tabs or
just the same window for eatch site is just more simple.

Heck, don't people ever learn to use the "History" feature in the
browsers? No, because clueless "webbmasters" started to use "target"
even of they don't have a site with frameset.

--
/Arne

Top posters will be ignored. Quote the part you
are replying to, no more and no less! And don't
quote signatures, thank you.
 
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Travis Newbury
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      05-14-2005
Arne wrote:
> Going from site to thruu links I find, gets me ending up with a lot of
> windows to close when I like to end my surfing. Opening in tabs or
> just the same window for eatch site is just more simple.
>
> Heck, don't people ever learn to use the "History" feature in the
> browsers? No, because clueless "webbmasters" started to use "target"
> even of they don't have a site with frameset.


You know, I never seem to have an issue with this no matter how much I
browse. Must be the sites i visit.


--
-=tn=-
 
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Justin Wood (Callek)
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      05-15-2005
Joel Shepherd wrote:
> In article <(E-Mail Removed) .com>,
> "randau" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>Some reasons that I would like to use the Target attribute
>>are: I like having separate browser windows opened when
>>linking to a different web site ...

>
>
> And what do your _visitors_ like?
>
> Hint: if _you_ like having a separate window open, you can do that using
> the browser of your choice. Check the documentation if you're not sure
> how.
>
> Your visitors who like having a separate window open can do the same, if
> they like.
>
> And your visitors who _don't_ want a separate window open can continue
> using their browser just as they like ... as long as you don't use the
> Target attribute at all.
>
> Simple, isn't it?
>


Just to re-iterate as well.

The Target attribute in HTML is deprecated, as is Frames entirely.

The only "legitimate" use of target (though not technically documented
as legitimate) is when using with an IFRAME, though imho IFRAME's should
not exist either as they defeat the purpose of "allowing a user to find
where they are" (which was why FRAMEs are deprecated).

unless you are creating a web-app leave window.open and target to no-one.

If you want all external links (at least on your own site) to open in a
new window [for yourself, _you_ cannot claim to know what _every_
visitor to your site wants at any given time] simple right-click on the
link and click "Open in new window".

To also add more information, with IE my |target="_blank"| pages open
fullscreen, it is a windows/[IE] setting to toggle this...do not ask me
where it is, been a long while since I had any use for IE outside of
windows update. [and occasional required activeX pages for my use].

Any further questions I would be glad to answer for you.

~Justin Wood (Callek)
 
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Travis Newbury
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      05-15-2005
Justin Wood (Callek) wrote:
> If you want all external links (at least on your own site) to open in a
> new window [for yourself, _you_ cannot claim to know what _every_
> visitor to your site wants at any given time] simple right-click on the
> link and click "Open in new window".


I agree you can not know what all your visitors preferences are. But
what I disagree with is the fact that you think you need to. Opening a
new window, or targeting/reusing a window you have opened is an
essential part of web applications so it should never go away. But it
can also be useful in a website.

Personal opinion, no argument intended.

--
-=tn=-
 
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Alan J. Flavell
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Posts: n/a
 
      05-15-2005
On Sun, 15 May 2005, Travis Newbury, seen in
comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html, wrote:

> disagree with is the fact that you think you need to. Opening a new
> window, or targeting/reusing a window you have opened is an
> essential part of web applications


"Essential"? It's going to have a hard time of it with the browser
settings that I use, then.

 
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