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Paragraph tags different in Mozilla

 
 
tshad
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      05-13-2005

"Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:CfOge.27169$(E-Mail Removed)...
> tshad wrote:
>> Again - Front Page added this.
>>
>> I agree. I assume this should be <p style="margin-left: 15px">

>
> ..or 2em ...
>
> http://www.allmyfaqs.com/faq.pl?Tableless_layouts
>
> Your 8pt font is also unreadable. We discuss why not to use Verdana, and
> not to use px or pt for font every day here. Surely, you've read a few of
> those threads?
>


Again, this is what FP puts out there.

I actually do use fixed sized fonts, but they are all in my style sheets
that I can change later. I just found that relative sizes caused me no end
of problems when dealing with data input screens and getting things to line
up.

I actually use 10px, 12px and 14px:

a.headerlink:active{
font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 10px;
color: #000000;
text-decoration: underline;
font-weight:bold;
}
..UserHeader {
color: #FFFFFF;
font-size: 14px;
font-weight: bold;
font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
}

I also have them set at the same size as the graphic images I am using that
have the text in them to make them consistant. How do you use a relative
size font in a graphic image?

Using standard out of the box browsers (IE, netscape, firefox) all look
fine. I have my screen at 1024.

We have had multiple people look at some of the pages without telling them
how to set their browsers and they use different size screen resolutions and
they don't seem to have a problem with it.

I did figure out my problem, however.

My example was missing the <p> tag, so it wasn't showing the problem
correctly. Now it does.

It was the DOCTYPE that was causing the problem.

In http://www.payrollworkshop.com/Sampl...graphTest1.htm you can see
this at the dop

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">

As soon as I took the 2nd line out it works fine in all browsers. As you
can see in http://www.payrollworkshop.com/Sampl...graphTest1.htm

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">

I found that not only did it have a large box around it, but the first
example doesn't indent the text and the 2nd one does.

Tom
> --
> -bts
> -This space intentionally left blank.



 
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Toby Inkster
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      05-13-2005
n|ck wrote:

> I'm not sure I can see the rational behind shunning Verdana as a font
> for the web. I would've thought that the main problem was using Verdana
> when not using relative font sizes? Verdana was made for the screen...
> so why can't we use it?


http://tobyinkster.co.uk/web-fonts#verdana

--
Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
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Beauregard T. Shagnasty
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      05-13-2005
tshad wrote:
> "Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
> message news:CfOge.27169$(E-Mail Removed)...
>
>> Your 8pt font is also unreadable. We discuss why not to use
>> Verdana, and not to use px or pt for font every day here. Surely,
>> you've read a few of those threads?

>
> Again, this is what FP puts out there.


Sounds like a good reason to dump it.

> I actually do use fixed sized fonts, but they are all in my style
> sheets that I can change later. I just found that relative sizes
> caused me no end of problems when dealing with data input screens
> and getting things to line up.
>
> I actually use 10px, 12px and 14px:


I always use 100% and have no problems at all. You must be doing
something else wrong. Or, rather of course, FrontPage is doing
something else wrong.

Have we mentioned that IE users will not be able to resize your fonts
if they have vision problems?

> I also have them set at the same size as the graphic images I am
> using that have the text in them to make them consistant. How do
> you use a relative size font in a graphic image?


A graphic image of text? Why not just use text? Unless you're showing
mathematical formulae, or need a particular emphasized header, there
is little reason to use a graphic of text.

> Using standard out of the box browsers (IE, netscape, firefox) all
> look fine. I have my screen at 1024.


Screen size is unimportant. Browser window size is. My 1024 monitor
usually has a browser window around 750-850px wide.

> We have had multiple people look at some of the pages without
> telling them how to set their browsers and they use different size
> screen resolutions and they don't seem to have a problem with it.


Again, screen resolution is not important.

> I did figure out my problem, however.
>
> My example was missing the <p> tag, so it wasn't showing the
> problem correctly. Now it does.
>
> It was the DOCTYPE that was causing the problem.
>
> In http://www.payrollworkshop.com/Sampl...graphTest1.htm you
> can see this at the dop
>
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
> "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">
>
> As soon as I took the 2nd line out it works fine in all browsers.
> As you can see in
> http://www.payrollworkshop.com/Sampl...graphTest1.htm
>
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">


The page still has the complete doctype. In fact, I think I recall
that an incomplete doctype will still toss browsers into quirks mode.

> I found that not only did it have a large box around it, but the
> first example doesn't indent the text and the 2nd one does.


...and there are still no units on your paragraph margin.
Still 15 cheeseburgers.

--
-bts
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Els
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      05-13-2005
Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:

> Have we mentioned that IE users will not be able to resize your fonts
> if they have vision problems?


Only if they have vision problems? All the other users can resize px
fonts? (SCNR )

> The page still has the complete doctype. In fact, I think I recall
> that an incomplete doctype will still toss browsers into quirks mode.


Correct. It's the DTD (second half of doctype) that triggers standards
mode.

> ..and there are still no units on your paragraph margin.
> Still 15 cheeseburgers.


Hobnobs.

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Els http://locusmeus.com/
Sonhos vem. Sonhos vo. O resto imperfeito.
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Beauregard T. Shagnasty
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      05-13-2005
Els wrote:
> Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
>
>> Have we mentioned that IE users will not be able to resize your
>> fonts if they have vision problems?

>
> Only if they have vision problems? All the other users can resize
> px fonts? (SCNR )


Badly phrased, eh? "Have we mentioned that if IE users have vision
problems and wish to resize so they can read it, won't be able to do
that." Or even IE users who don't like microfonts ... <g>

>> The page still has the complete doctype. In fact, I think I
>> recall that an incomplete doctype will still toss browsers into
>> quirks mode.

>
> Correct. It's the DTD (second half of doctype) that triggers
> standards mode.
>
>> ..and there are still no units on your paragraph margin. Still 15
>> cheeseburgers.

>
> Hobnobs.


Cheeseburgers.

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-bts
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Els
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      05-13-2005
Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:

>>> ..and there are still no units on your paragraph margin. Still 15
>>> cheeseburgers.

>>
>> Hobnobs.

>
> Cheeseburgers.


Sorry, forgot you're American.
;P

--
Els http://locusmeus.com/
Sonhos vem. Sonhos vo. O resto imperfeito.
- Renato Russo -
Now playing: Twarres - She Couldn't Laugh
 
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Toby Inkster
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      05-13-2005
Els wrote:
> Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
>> Els wrote:
>>
>>> Hobnobs.

>>
>> Cheeseburgers.

>
> Sorry, forgot you're American.


They dip *cheeseburgers* in *coffee* over there?

--
Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact

 
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Adrienne
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      05-14-2005
Gazing into my crystal ball I observed "tshad"
<(E-Mail Removed)> writing in
news:7_Nge.1717$3%(E-Mail Removed) :

> "Adrienne" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:Xns96546E4DE49DCarbpenyahoocom@207.115.63.158 ...
>> Gazing into my crystal ball I observed "tshad"
>> <(E-Mail Removed)> writing in
>> news:6tLge.1691$(E-Mail Removed) :
>>
>>> I have a table where I have use a paragraph tag to indent my lines
>>> (actually Front Page added it). But it causes all kinds of problems
>>> in Mozilla.
>>>

<snip>

>> 1. Get rid of FrontPage.

>
> I am not using FP, but my boss had been using it and is now mainly
> using DW to build pages.


You will find that if you are going to be doing server side stuff that a
plain text editor is a lot easier to use.

>
>> 2. Stop abusing tables.

>
> How did I abuse tables in my example?
>


<quote> I have a table where I use a paragraph...</quote>

Tables are for tabular data, not for positioning of elements. There are
plenty of elements that are sematically correct that can be styled a lot
easier than your abuse of tables.

After all, you probably wouldn't use Excel to write a business letter. Do
not use tables for non-tabular data. Use the right tool for the job - use
Strict HTML and CSS. Separate content from presentation.

--
Adrienne Boswell
http://www.cavalcade-of-coding.info
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Joel Shepherd
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      05-14-2005
In article <(E-Mail Removed)> ,
Toby Inkster <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> Els wrote:
> > Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
> >> Els wrote:
> >>> Hobnobs.
> >>
> >> Cheeseburgers.

> >
> > Sorry, forgot you're American.

>
> They dip *cheeseburgers* in *coffee* over there?


Yeah, and we put ketchup on our doughnuts. It's a weird country, if you
haven't already glommed onto that fact.

--
Joel.
 
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Beauregard T. Shagnasty
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      05-14-2005
Joel Shepherd wrote:
> In article <(E-Mail Removed)> , Toby
> Inkster <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> Els wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry, forgot you're American.

>>
>> They dip *cheeseburgers* in *coffee* over there?

>
> Yeah, and we put ketchup on our doughnuts. It's a weird country, if
> you haven't already glommed onto that fact.


I use mustard on my doughnuts, and dip my cheeseburgers in *Pepsi*!

--
-bts
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