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Design questions for new technology.

 
 
Carolyn Marenger
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      03-24-2005
Hi all,

How do you design your sites to take into account the majority of us that
view the web with computers and large browser windows and not leave out
the growing numbers of people who browse on cell phones and the like?

With a decent resolution, a three column layout looks great. Is it
practical at low resolution?

If you have a cell phone and browse the web with it, what are your
comments, good & bad, about web sites.

Thanks, Carolyn
 
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Els
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      03-24-2005
Carolyn Marenger wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> How do you design your sites to take into account the majority of us that
> view the web with computers and large browser windows and not leave out
> the growing numbers of people who browse on cell phones and the like?
>
> With a decent resolution, a three column layout looks great. Is it
> practical at low resolution?


Depends on the width of the columns I think, but personally I prefer
two columns only. One narrower for links, and the rest of the
available window width for the text.

> If you have a cell phone and browse the web with it, what are your
> comments, good & bad, about web sites.


Sites with CSS styles work perfectly, if there isn't too much text on
one page. The CSS is applied wrt. colours, but not wrt. columns and
absolute/relative positioning. Like on my own site, my cellphone will
first display the menu, and show the content below.

Forms work too, although as I use a two column table for my form, the
entry field becomes rather narrow. One thing I found that doesn't
work, that's the <input type="file"> element. Just gives the input
field, but not the button, so I couldn't actually browse in my phone
to upload an image or other file.

Must remember that surfing with GPRS means paying per byte, so people
are likely to have images switched off. My cellphone does display the
familiar cross icon with the alt text though.

--
Els http://locusmeus.com/
Sonhos vem. Sonhos vo. O resto imperfeito.
- Renato Russo -
Now playing: Madness - Madness
 
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Carolyn Marenger
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      03-24-2005
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 13:02:51 +0100, Els wrote:

> Carolyn Marenger wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> How do you design your sites to take into account the majority of us
>> that view the web with computers and large browser windows and not leave
>> out the growing numbers of people who browse on cell phones and the
>> like?
>>
>> With a decent resolution, a three column layout looks great. Is it
>> practical at low resolution?

>
> Depends on the width of the columns I think, but personally I prefer two
> columns only. One narrower for links, and the rest of the available window
> width for the text.


That seems very reasonable to me. Good point. Thanks.

>> If you have a cell phone and browse the web with it, what are your
>> comments, good & bad, about web sites.

>
> Sites with CSS styles work perfectly, if there isn't too much text on one
> page. The CSS is applied wrt. colours, but not wrt. columns and
> absolute/relative positioning. Like on my own site, my cellphone will
> first display the menu, and show the content below.


wrt? I don't know that abbreviation.

So, how much text is too much text? If I have a large text block, is it
better to break it up over a few pages? I personally dislike having to
load part two, then part three, an so forth. If cell phone or other
browsers have a problem with lots of text, then I will take that into
account in future designs.

> Forms work too, although as I use a two column table for my form, the
> entry field becomes rather narrow. One thing I found that doesn't work,
> that's the <input type="file"> element. Just gives the input field, but
> not the button, so I couldn't actually browse in my phone to upload an
> image or other file.


Thanks for the pointer. I will have to remember that.

> Must remember that surfing with GPRS means paying per byte, so people are
> likely to have images switched off. My cellphone does display the familiar
> cross icon with the alt text though.


I always design sites based on the principle that there are lots of
low-bandwidth users out there. I spend the time to make them small
without losing much detail.

I hate having a nice high speed connection, and browsing a site that
reminds me of my 300baud days. That is a great way to make me leave a
site. I have high speed so that I can surf faster!

Thanks for the comments.

Carolyn


 
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Els
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      03-24-2005
Carolyn Marenger wrote:

[sites for all window sizes, including cell phones]

>> Sites with CSS styles work perfectly, if there isn't too much text on one
>> page. The CSS is applied wrt. colours, but not wrt. columns and
>> absolute/relative positioning. Like on my own site, my cellphone will
>> first display the menu, and show the content below.

>
> wrt? I don't know that abbreviation.


With regard to.

> So, how much text is too much text? If I have a large text block, is it
> better to break it up over a few pages? I personally dislike having to
> load part two, then part three, an so forth. If cell phone or other
> browsers have a problem with lots of text, then I will take that into
> account in future designs.


I don't know exactly how much is too much, the site I had problems
with contained a lot of nested tables. If you give the url to one of
your larger pages, I don't mind checking for you.

>> Must remember that surfing with GPRS means paying per byte, so people are
>> likely to have images switched off. My cellphone does display the familiar
>> cross icon with the alt text though.

>
> I always design sites based on the principle that there are lots of
> low-bandwidth users out there. I spend the time to make them small
> without losing much detail.
>
> I hate having a nice high speed connection, and browsing a site that
> reminds me of my 300baud days. That is a great way to make me leave a
> site. I have high speed so that I can surf faster!


Same here

--
Els http://locusmeus.com/
Sonhos vem. Sonhos vo. O resto imperfeito.
- Renato Russo -
 
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Travis Newbury
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      03-24-2005
Carolyn Marenger wrote:
> How do you design your sites to take into account the majority of us

that
> view the web with computers and large browser windows and not leave

out
> the growing numbers of people who browse on cell phones and the like?


You don't. You should design a site so it is most effective for your
specific market.

--
-=tn=-

 
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Carolyn Marenger
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      03-26-2005
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 12:55:28 -0800, Travis Newbury wrote:

> Carolyn Marenger wrote:
>> How do you design your sites to take into account the majority of us

> that
>> view the web with computers and large browser windows and not leave

> out
>> the growing numbers of people who browse on cell phones and the like?

>
> You don't. You should design a site so it is most effective for your
> specific market.


I was actually asking "how you...", and I meant it that was. I want to
know how people are designing websites that take into account the large
variety of display formats and sizes in use today.

So far, how I do it is, I haven't - at least in respect to small
displayes such as in cell phones. I plan to start doing it however, so I
asked.

I do design my sites with my market in mind. That is why I am asking
about cell phones. I don't really want to go and get one, so I can see
the results. I want to hear from some of the many people out there that
are already liking or hating sites.

Thanks, Carolyn
 
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Carolyn Marenger
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      03-26-2005
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 15:14:42 +0100, Els wrote:

> Carolyn Marenger wrote:
>
> [sites for all window sizes, including cell phones]
>
>>> Sites with CSS styles work perfectly, if there isn't too much text on
>>> one page. The CSS is applied wrt. colours, but not wrt. columns and
>>> absolute/relative positioning. Like on my own site, my cellphone will
>>> first display the menu, and show the content below.

>>
>> wrt? I don't know that abbreviation.

>
> With regard to.


Thanks.

>> So, how much text is too much text? If I have a large text block, is it
>> better to break it up over a few pages? I personally dislike having to
>> load part two, then part three, an so forth. If cell phone or other
>> browsers have a problem with lots of text, then I will take that into
>> account in future designs.

>
> I don't know exactly how much is too much, the site I had problems with
> contained a lot of nested tables. If you give the url to one of your
> larger pages, I don't mind checking for you.


When I have some pages that I think are close to presentable, I will do
so. In the mean time, can you tell me what size your screen is on your
cell phone's browser. Maybe I can start with a window set to the same
size and see how it looks.

Your answers are very appreciated. There is a lot of useful information
within this newsgroup, most of it seems to be wrapped up in snarky
replies. Thanks for the simple, clear, and judgement free response.

Carolyn


 
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Beauregard T. Shagnasty
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      03-26-2005
Carolyn Marenger wrote:

> I do design my sites with my market in mind. That is why I am asking
> about cell phones. I don't really want to go and get one, so I can see
> the results. I want to hear from some of the many people out there that
> are already liking or hating sites.


I don't have a cell phone either, but I have seen my sites on the
phones and PDAs of others. They seem to work fine.

For a good approximation of what your site looks like on a phone or
PDA that uses a graphical browser, use Opera and press Shift+F11.

--
-bts
-This space intentionally left blank.
 
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Els
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      03-26-2005
Carolyn Marenger wrote:

>>> So, how much text is too much text? If I have a large text block, is it
>>> better to break it up over a few pages? I personally dislike having to
>>> load part two, then part three, an so forth. If cell phone or other
>>> browsers have a problem with lots of text, then I will take that into
>>> account in future designs.

>>
>> I don't know exactly how much is too much, the site I had problems with
>> contained a lot of nested tables. If you give the url to one of your
>> larger pages, I don't mind checking for you.

>
> When I have some pages that I think are close to presentable, I will do
> so. In the mean time, can you tell me what size your screen is on your
> cell phone's browser. Maybe I can start with a window set to the same
> size and see how it looks.


I'm not sure, but from counting letters and looking how many pixels
per letter, I'd say it's probably about 120 pixels wide. Width in cm
is 3, and 2,5cm high. I don't think starting with a window that size
will help very much - the phone adjusts I think, like for instance on
my site, the title of the pages (LocusMeus.com) is quite large, but on
my phone it fits in the window nevertheless.

> Your answers are very appreciated. There is a lot of useful information
> within this newsgroup, most of it seems to be wrapped up in snarky
> replies. Thanks for the simple, clear, and judgement free response.


You're welcome

OTOH - I too have been accused of sarcasm, while the ones you may have
found to give snarky replies are also nice people who like to help
out. Just stick around and you'll notice it's not that bad here

--
Els http://locusmeus.com/
Sonhos vem. Sonhos vo. O resto imperfeito.
- Renato Russo -
 
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Blinky the Shark
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      03-26-2005
Els wrote:

> OTOH - I too have been accused of sarcasm, while the ones you may have
> found to give snarky replies are also nice people who like to help


Hey! There's nothing...er...oh! Never mind. I thought you said
"sharky".

--
Blinky Linux Registered User 297263
Who has implemented Usenet Solution #45933:
Now killing all posts originating at Google Groups

 
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