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HTML and CSS border style wizard

 
 
humbads
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      03-21-2005
All new, totally revamped HTML and CSS border style wizard is available
at:

http://www.somacon.com/blog/page41.php

Ever wondered what different border-collapse or border-spacing settings
do? Now you can see it live. Also, for advanced coders, you can view
source to see the implementation of REAL radio buttons that make the
wizard work.

This was my first time dynamically changing styles by changing the
class name of an element, or by redefining a class style by its
selector. In can imagine doing some really slick things with these
functions.

Your feedback is welcome.

 
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A Hess
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      03-21-2005
humbads wrote:
> All new, totally revamped HTML and CSS border style wizard is available
> at:
>
> http://www.somacon.com/blog/page41.php
>
>
> Your feedback is welcome.
>



Quote:

"You'll also be able to see the fancy effects (rounded edges, hover
effects) in this web page that you are missing out on.

If you happen to visit a site that doesn't work with Firefox but only
with IE, then complain to the site operator that their site is not
standards-compliant"

End quote


In one sentence you tell visitors that with Firefox you can see some
neat Firefox exclusive features. In the very next sentence you tell
visitors to complain to the webmaster of sites that feature IE exclusive
features. Now, I LOVE Fire fox as much as anyone, but this hipocrisy
isn't the most appropriate way to spread the word.
 
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humbads
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      03-21-2005
You didn't read the How it works section:

Quote:
Best of all, this wizard is cross-browser compatible with Firefox,
Netscape, Internet Explorer, and other modern browsers.
....
There are large number of Netscape extensions like this one that allow
you to create slick effects, and they are fully backward-compatible
with older browsers like IE.
End Quote

Of course, there's a big difference between not having special
graphical effects in other browsers, and not being able to use the site
at all. The latter is the despicable habit of many IE-only developers.

 
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dorayme
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      03-21-2005
> From: "humbads" <(E-Mail Removed)>
> Organization: http://groups.google.com
> Newsgroups: alt.html
> Date: 20 Mar 2005 19:43:25 -0800
> Subject: HTML and CSS border style wizard
>
> All new, totally revamped HTML and CSS border style wizard is available
> at:
>
> http://www.somacon.com/blog/page41.php
>
> Ever wondered what different border-collapse or border-spacing settings
> do? Now you can see it live. Also, for advanced coders, you can view
> source to see the implementation of REAL radio buttons that make the
> wizard work.
>
> This was my first time dynamically changing styles by changing the
> class name of an element, or by redefining a class style by its
> selector. In can imagine doing some really slick things with these
> functions.
>
> Your feedback is welcome.
>



This looks very interesting and potentially useful, well done. Does not work
in IE 5.1.6 for mac at all, not even does the hand appear over the buttons.
But a treat in my Mozilla 1.3. Anyone seen something like this that contains
more or less *only* the well supported mechanisms across most modern
browsers (the things that are truly practical)?

dorayme


 
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humbads
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      03-22-2005
Thanks for your comments. What one considers "well-supported" depends
on context, and is continuously changing. For example, the last
revision of the wizard didn't include the border-spacing CSS2 property.
But now that non-IE browsers are 1/3 of my site's traffic and IE7 is
due within a year, I was able to start considering it seriously.

 
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kchayka
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      03-22-2005
humbads wrote:
>
> But now that non-IE browsers are 1/3 of my site's traffic and IE7 is
> due within a year, I was able to start considering it seriously.


FYI, if you expect the upcoming release of IE to have any major CSS
improvements, you're probably going to be disappointed. MS has already
made it pretty clear they have no intention of beefing up CSS standards
support any time soon.

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humbads
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      03-25-2005
I don't particularly like MS, but you can't bash them without backing
up your claims.

>From Chris Wilson's Blog - IE program manager

http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2005/03/09/391362.aspx

"Additionally, with every subsequent major release of IE, we have
expanded and improved our implementation of web standards, particularly
CSS and HTML. When we shipped IE 6.0, we finally fully supported CSS
1, and had some pieces of CSS2 implemented as well. Since IE 6.0
shipped, we have focused on one of our other key problems - enhancing
the security of the Internet Explorer platform. This has taken
tremendous effort on our part, and was - IS - an important place
for us to focus - but it will not be our only area of improvement in
our engine. We know we have a lot more work to do in addressing our
consistency issues with CSS and furthering our coverage of these
standards. Expect to see more detail on our plans in IE7 in the
future.", March 09, 2005

>From this, I suspect IE7 will implement all, or at least a good

portion, of CSS2.

 
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Lauri Raittila
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      03-25-2005
in alt.html, humbads wrote:
> I don't particularly like MS, but you can't bash them without backing
> up your claims.
>
> >From Chris Wilson's Blog - IE program manager

> http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2005/03/09/391362.aspx
>
> "Additionally, with every subsequent major release of IE, we have
> expanded and improved our implementation of web standards, particularly
> CSS and HTML.


Sure, but they have made it in way that is harmful.

> When we shipped IE 6.0, we finally fully supported CSS 1,


Well, IE6 breaks CSS1. Floats and containers issue, collapsing margins,
for example. And most importantly: future proof parsing.

> and had some pieces of CSS2 implemented as well. Since IE 6.0
> shipped, we have focused on one of our other key problems - enhancing
> the security of the Internet Explorer platform.


Yes, that is key issue - but only reason is that the security was
inexistent. IE2 was last secure version... And it actually breaks CSS and
HTML standard much less than IE3-IE6. In care of IE3 and IE4, no support
for CSS would have been better than the very broken one.

> We know we have a lot more work to do in addressing our
> consistency issues with CSS and furthering our coverage of these
> standards.


Talk, talk, but we have heard MS bullshit before.

> Expect to see more detail on our plans in IE7 in the
> future.", March 09, 2005
>
> >From this, I suspect IE7 will implement all, or at least a good

> portion, of CSS2.


From that, I suspect they might implement something. But why would you
think so? It isn't exactly usual that MS keeps what it promises. (which
version of OS was not late? Which one was secure?)


--
Lauri Raittila <http://www.iki.fi/lr> <http://www.iki.fi/zwak/fonts>
Utrecht, NL.
 
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kchayka
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      03-25-2005
humbads wrote:
> I don't particularly like MS, but you can't bash them without backing
> up your claims.


I wasn't intending to "bash" MS, just stating some facts. Several
articles have been published in the last few months stating MS isn't
keen on beefing up their standards support much. Their rationale is that
a huge number of sites will stop working if IE starts implementing
proper standards and protocols.

>>From Chris Wilson's Blog - IE program manager

> http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2005/03/09/391362.aspx
>
> "Additionally, with every subsequent major release of IE, we have
> expanded and improved our implementation of web standards, particularly
> CSS and HTML."


If you really believe they've done a good job at this, then it doesn't
surprise me you are optimistic about the next release. The only thing
they really did in IE6 was fix the box model. Otherwise, it's standards
support has changed very little since IE 5.0, 7 years ago.

>>From this, I suspect IE7 will implement all, or at least a good

> portion, of CSS2.


I'll believe it when I see it. I'm guessing we'll see very little
improvement here, more just feature enhancements and security fixes.

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humbads
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      03-26-2005
> Their rationale is that a huge number of sites will stop working if
IE starts implementing proper standards and protocols.

I can vouch for that. I opened a support case with Microsoft regarding
a PDF over SSL bug. It isn't resolved yet, but the current status is
that they can't fix it because it would break other applications.

Microsoft is acting rationally. If 90% of web surfers use IE, and many
applications would break by making IE more standards-compliant, then
there is no reason to fix IE.

However, if Microsoft is going to leave IE broken, then we as
developers should push as hard as we can to get people to use Firefox,
Opera, and any browser that supports the standards. That's the only
way to change the equation and force Microsoft's hand.

 
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