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What do I need to be a web developer?

 
 
Mark Parnell
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      03-10-2005
Previously in alt.html, Augustus <(E-Mail Removed)> said:

> There is really three distinctly different routes you can take in this
> field: "Self Employed", "Web Design Company" or "IT Department Resource"


<snip>

Yet another brilliant response from Augustus. Well done.

--
Mark Parnell
http://www.clarkecomputers.com.au
 
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Augustus
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      03-10-2005

"Uncle Pirate" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:4230b877$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Augustus wrote:
>
> > There is really three distinctly different routes you can take in this
> > field: "Self Employed", "Web Design Company" or "IT Department

Resource"
>
> Good post, but you forgot one (maybe more?). "Webmaster of a large
> site" is a bit different from "IT Dept Resource" although shares many
> similarities. I manage a large (school) site that many employees work
> on pages for their departments/areas. A "jack of all trades" managing
> not only the site in all aspects, but the server as well.


There is definitly more out there than what I covered on, but I wanted to
keep the post pretty general instead of going in depth into each aspect.

In my case I went the "self employed" route, but I quit doing "freelance web
design" thing after a few months and instead concentrated on developing and
then selling web applications (with my primary focus being on "Online
ordering system for restaurants")

Its similar to the "Self Employed" job description, except nowadays I mostly
do sales and data entry (entering menus into the system) and only a little
bit of programming (compared to the beginning when I was working around
80-100 hours a week for over 2 years doing just programming)

Even though "web design" is only a small part of my job description
nowadays, I still consider myself a web developer...

Clint



 
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Lauri Raittila
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      03-10-2005
in alt.html, Josh R. wrote:
> Hi everyone
>
> I hope you don't mind a general question.
>
> I'm pretty proficient in HTML and CSS and have a few simple sites
> to my name. I enjoy developing sites so much I'd like to do it
> for a living. So I'm curious to know, what is a good range of
> languages/technologies I'd need to master to become a good web
> developer?


To support yourself on web developing depends on your marketing skills,
not your html/css/... skills. If you are good at selling yourself, then
there is lots of people buying. Look all crap net is full. To be
webdeveloper of some sort, you don't have to know much about web
developing. Of course, because you need to be quite cheap, you can't make
much either...

If you are like me, waiting home that someone contacts you while doing
nothing to engourage them, you need to be very good, I think. At least
not that many people do contact me... (some have though, but I am have
usually solved their problems so quickly that it won't really make living
- which is OK, as I am not really trying either, but extra money is
never bad...)

--
Lauri Raittila <http://www.iki.fi/lr> <http://www.iki.fi/zwak/fonts>
Utrecht, NL.
 
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Andy Dingley
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      03-10-2005
It was somewhere outside Barstow when "mark | r" <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>other people recomend PHP and MYSQL but to be honest it seems a pain to
>setup (install apache, install php install msql install msql editor blah
>blah...) when my pc already had everything i need to be up and running.


The trouble is that I'm not going to host sites on my desktop PC, I'm
going to do it on either cheap shared hosting, or cheap LAMPs boxen
(Linux, Apache, MySQL, PHP). If you want something to learn as a
back-end platform, then I'd suggest that rather than Windows.

PHP under IIS, or Apache under Windows, are both a bit of a
dog-on-their-hind-legs, IMHO. Java under IIS is bad enough (works fine
on its own, but database connectivity costs a fortune).


 
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Nik Coughin
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      03-11-2005
Augustus wrote:
> "Josh R." <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> So I'm curious to know, what is a good range of
>> languages/technologies I'd need to master to become a good web
>> developer?

>
>
> There is really three distinctly different routes you can take in this
> field: "Self Employed", "Web Design Company" or "IT Department
> Resource"
>


8< snip >8

> Self Employment might sound like a great way to go: you are your
> own boss and can make some pretty good money at it. But there are
> two VERY important things to remember here:
>
> 1) It doesn't matter how much you like "programming" or "designing new
> buttons"... the absolute number 1 skill you will use being as a self
> employed web designer is "SALES".


8< snip >8

> you have to be out there selling people on your
> services, advertising, making cold calls, etc.


....or networking. I'm not convinced that it is the same thing. I have as
much work as I can cope with and I've never spent a single moment doing
anything that I would consider sales work, certainly no advertising or cold
calling anyway. But I think I've just been lucky enough to know the right
people, and what you say about sales being the #1 required skill would be
100% true for most people I imagine.

I once read an excellent posting on this topic, by yourself as it happens.
Google has it here:

http://groups.google.co.nz/groups?q=...0uni-berlin.de

....and in case that wraps:

http://tinyurl.com/3jscd



 
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Uncle Pirate
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      03-11-2005
Augustus wrote:

> Its similar to the "Self Employed" job description, except nowadays I mostly
> do sales and data entry (entering menus into the system) and only a little
> bit of programming (compared to the beginning when I was working around
> 80-100 hours a week for over 2 years doing just programming)


For me, self employed is only a dream. I like having the security of a
40 hour a week job. I've been with the school for 15 years and the
job's not likely to go away any time before I'm elegible to retire.
Maybe then, when I have time and a steady income, I can do something.

>
> Even though "web design" is only a small part of my job description
> nowadays, I still consider myself a web developer...


Likewise. My design skills are far from top notch.

--
Stan McCann "Uncle Pirate" http://stanmccann.us/pirate.html
Webmaster/Computer Center Manager, NMSU at Alamogordo
Coordinator, Tularosa Basin Chapter, ABATE of NM; AMA#758681; COBB
'94 1500 Vulcan (now wrecked) http://motorcyclefun.org/Dcp_2068c.jpg
A zest for living must include a willingness to die. - R.A. Heinlein
 
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Augustus
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      03-11-2005

"Uncle Pirate" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:42311b12$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Augustus wrote:
>
> > Its similar to the "Self Employed" job description, except nowadays I

mostly
> > do sales and data entry (entering menus into the system) and only a

little
> > bit of programming (compared to the beginning when I was working around
> > 80-100 hours a week for over 2 years doing just programming)

>
> For me, self employed is only a dream. I like having the security of a
> 40 hour a week job. I've been with the school for 15 years and the
> job's not likely to go away any time before I'm elegible to retire.
> Maybe then, when I have time and a steady income, I can do something.


I think you bring up a good point here... success and job security are
always a toughie to discuss because everybody has different results and
measures them differently.

When I went into the field of web design it was with the intention that
after I graduated from school I would find a job somewhere where I sit in a
cubicle 40 hrs a week punching out ASP code all day long... I wanted to
know where my next meal was coming from, not to mention the next rent
payment.

That idea didn't pan out, and as I look back I can say I am pretty happy
they didn't... because things worked out for me in being self employed (I
work 20hrs a week, I have job security, I love my job and I make a good
income).

But everybody is different and they do need to look at their own
situation... somebody who is 20yrs old and living in his parents basement as
less concern about making rent or buying groceries... while somebody else
who has a wife and 2 kids to support is in a totally different situation.

The point of my original post wasn't to say "Go the self employed route!
Its great!" but more to say that there are many different answers to the
question "What do I need to be a web developer" and thats because there are
so many different aspects of the job depending on the path you choose:

Web company employee: You need to pretty much master 1 or 2 skills (and
HTML and CSS don't count in this regard)
Big company IT employee: You need to be a piece in the puzzle... the
company has needs and you have to bring something to the table that fills
some of those needs (or all of them if you are the only employee in the web
department)
Self Employed: Its all about YOU. You need to know how to do just about
everything there is.

Personally, I think I will always respond to posts, like the original one in
this thread, in favor of self employment...

Thats because the self employed route did work for me and I know people from
here and personally for whom it does work... It can be alot of hard work,
but the rewards can be great in the end if you are successful and heck,
sometimes just being your own boss is reward enough, even if you are just
scraping by.

But in the end, just because "it worked out great for a bunch of guys and
gals from the internet!" doesn't mean it will work out for everybody... I
had some pretty hard times early on where I thought seriously about packing
it in and going back to mainframe programming (how is that for a deadend
career?)... But I was in a good position to take the risk of self
employment: my wife had a good job to support us through some of the tough
times until things all worked out for the better.



 
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mark | r
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      03-11-2005

"Adrienne" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:Xns96157C49D1541arbpenyahoocom@207.115.63.158 ...
> Gazing into my crystal ball I observed "mark | r" <(E-Mail Removed)>
> writing in news:423095be$0$26725$(E-Mail Removed) :
>
> >
> > "Josh R." <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> >> Hi everyone
> >>
> >> I hope you don't mind a general question.
> >>
> >> I'm pretty proficient in HTML and CSS and have a few simple sites
> >> to my name. I enjoy developing sites so much I'd like to do it
> >> for a living. So I'm curious to know, what is a good range of
> >> languages/technologies I'd need to master to become a good web
> >> developer?

> >
> > try ASP, if youve got windows xp/2000 then chanses are that you can run
> > it locally (while developing) before uploading it to a server.

>
> That would be XP Pro, not Home Edition. Some people have been able to
> install IIS on Home Edition, but it is not recommended, nor easy.


Its SO easy, just download the installer from the microsoft site (IIS) even
personal web server would do to get you off the ground.


> > For an
> > easy database setup try MS Access, again, youve probably already got it
> > so no problems there.

>
> No, Access only comes in the Professional version of Office, again quite a
> bit higher price than Standard.


i did say probably

> > things to look up are www.asp101.com for some
> > basic display, add, edit, search and delete coding - from there you can
> > do pretty much anything, im no great asp coder (got guys here to do it)
> > but for simple databases and data filtering its easy.
> >

>
> http://www.asp101.com is a good source, and http://www.w3schools.com/asp/
> has good tutorials.
>
> > other people recomend PHP and MYSQL but to be honest it seems a pain to
> > setup (install apache, install php install msql install msql editor
> > blah blah...) when my pc already had everything i need to be up and
> > running.

>
> You don't have to install apache to install PHP or MySQL. I have PHP
> available in IIS and I have MySQL server running as well. MySQL is more
> robust than Access, and a lot of hosting companies are offering MySQL
> instead of MS SQL because of licensing costs.


i still cant get my head around it - the tutorial i followed for mysql had
me faffing around in telnet

mark


 
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Adrienne
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      03-11-2005
Gazing into my crystal ball I observed "mark | r" <(E-Mail Removed)>
writing in news:42319a60$0$26744$(E-Mail Removed) :

>
> "Adrienne" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:Xns96157C49D1541arbpenyahoocom@207.115.63.158 ...
>> Gazing into my crystal ball I observed "mark | r" <(E-Mail Removed)>
>> writing in news:423095be$0$26725$(E-Mail Removed) :
>>
>> >
>> > "Josh R." <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> > news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> >> Hi everyone
>> >>
>> >> I hope you don't mind a general question.
>> >>
>> >> I'm pretty proficient in HTML and CSS and have a few simple sites
>> >> to my name. I enjoy developing sites so much I'd like to do it
>> >> for a living. So I'm curious to know, what is a good range of
>> >> languages/technologies I'd need to master to become a good web
>> >> developer?
>> >
>> > try ASP, if youve got windows xp/2000 then chanses are that you can
>> > run it locally (while developing) before uploading it to a server.

>>
>> That would be XP Pro, not Home Edition. Some people have been able to
>> install IIS on Home Edition, but it is not recommended, nor easy.

>
> Its SO easy, just download the installer from the microsoft site (IIS)
> even personal web server would do to get you off the ground.
>


For users of XP Home Edition, it is a real PITA to get IIS installed (if it
gets installed at all). XP does NOT have PWS.

>
>> > For an
>> > easy database setup try MS Access, again, youve probably already got
>> > it so no problems there.

>>
>> No, Access only comes in the Professional version of Office, again
>> quite a bit higher price than Standard.

>
> i did say probably
>
>> > things to look up are www.asp101.com for some
>> > basic display, add, edit, search and delete coding - from there you
>> > can do pretty much anything, im no great asp coder (got guys here to
>> > do it) but for simple databases and data filtering its easy.
>> >

>>
>> http://www.asp101.com is a good source, and
>> http://www.w3schools.com/asp/ has good tutorials.
>>
>> > other people recomend PHP and MYSQL but to be honest it seems a pain
>> > to setup (install apache, install php install msql install msql
>> > editor blah blah...) when my pc already had everything i need to be
>> > up and running.

>>
>> You don't have to install apache to install PHP or MySQL. I have PHP
>> available in IIS and I have MySQL server running as well. MySQL is
>> more robust than Access, and a lot of hosting companies are offering
>> MySQL instead of MS SQL because of licensing costs.

>
> i still cant get my head around it - the tutorial i followed for mysql
> had me faffing around in telnet
>


For a windows user, it's really easy. Download the file, and install it.
That's it. You'll want a GUI interface for it, so you can run queries,
start/stop the server, etc. MySQL Control Center is available at
http://www.mysql.com/products/mysqlcc/ . You can also use WinSQL
<http://www.synametrics.com/SynametricsWebApp/WinSQL.jsp> and get the ODBC
drivers for MySQL (you might want to use this for Access anyway, running
queries is a lot easier).
--
Adrienne Boswell
http://www.cavalcade-of-coding.info
Please respond to the group so others can share
 
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