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pay-per-click; Where am I wrong in my numbers?

 
 
indyfladon@yahoo.com
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      03-06-2005

Where am I wrong in my numbers/math?

If I were to try and earn a living through content sites that strictly
earned revenue on a basis of pay-per-click ads,
this is what I would need to do to make $100 per day.

If a program aveaged $0.18 per click,
i would need 555.555 clicks per day.

If a site had a 2% click thru rate,
it would need 27,777 visitors per day.


If you think a content only site with pay per click as the only form of
revenue is a bad idea, please post it to a new topic.

If you think I'm asking the wrong question, please post it to a new
topic.

TIA
John

 
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Richard
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      03-07-2005
On 6 Mar 2005 15:31:49 -0800 http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) wrote:

>
> Where am I wrong in my numbers/math?
>
> If I were to try and earn a living through content sites that strictly
> earned revenue on a basis of pay-per-click ads,
> this is what I would need to do to make $100 per day.


Pay per click sucks.
You could have a script that would automatically create clicks which would
count the same.
Then how are you gonna verify their word without logs as proof?
Best thing is, stay away from it.


 
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indyfladon@yahoo.com
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      03-07-2005
> Pay per click sucks.

Do you think google adsense sucks. And do you think they are likely to
fail to pay on legitamate clicks?

 
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hyweljenkins@hotmail.com
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Posts: n/a
 
      03-07-2005

Richard wrote:
> On 6 Mar 2005 15:31:49 -0800 (E-Mail Removed) wrote:
>
> >
> > Where am I wrong in my numbers/math?
> >
> > If I were to try and earn a living through content sites that

strictly
> > earned revenue on a basis of pay-per-click ads,
> > this is what I would need to do to make $100 per day.

>
> You could have a script that would automatically create clicks which

would
> count the same.


Not as far as the script that's counting the clicks is concerned. How
do you think companies like DoubleClick make their money, you RtS?

> Then how are you gonna verify their word without logs as proof?


Duh!


> Best thing is, stay away from it.


Best this is to ignore *anything* you say or treat it as stoopid.

--
Hywel

 
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Carol W
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Posts: n/a
 
      03-07-2005
On 6 Mar 2005 15:31:49 -0800, (E-Mail Removed) wrote:

>
>Where am I wrong in my numbers/math?
>
>If I were to try and earn a living through content sites that strictly
>earned revenue on a basis of pay-per-click ads,
>this is what I would need to do to make $100 per day.
>
>If a program aveaged $0.18 per click,
>i would need 555.555 clicks per day.
>
>If a site had a 2% click thru rate,
>it would need 27,777 visitors per day.
>
>
>If you think a content only site with pay per click as the only form of
>revenue is a bad idea, please post it to a new topic.


I don't feel it is a bad idea but - depending on what content the site
is offering - PPC may be just one option they can consider.
Particularly if they get 27,777 visitors per day

For example; Adsense works for some content sites but not all. Depends
on the content offered. A travel site, offering reviews and
commentaries about various places, may do well with what is triggered
by Adsense to share on those pages. A site, about backpacking through
Indiana or "where to visit while in Indiana", however may not do as
well with Adsense even though it could be viewed being a travel site
of some form.

This isn't touching upon how Adsense bases what ads are shown by the
on-page text and that some Adwords keywords have a higher scale than
others - compare pregnancy to parenting, pregnancy seems to be a bit
more 'lucrative' whereas parenting theme ads seem to be like those
[lame] scripted eBay affiliate ads in terms of very low payout.

Some people have coupled in Amazon with Adsense. I haven't explored
many of the products one can offer through Amazon - mainly limit
myself to some books and music that are selected to blend in and match
the contents of the site. Although Amazon is primarily known as to
where one can go to order books online - if you read the Amazon
Affiliate boards it reads as though many of the affiliates make their
revenue from offering the other products.

Then - lastly - depends on how you handle the advertising shared on
your pages and the type of audience that content is attracting. Some
people claim to do well with their pages looking like walking
billboards [ads interjected throughout the page's contents] while
others generate next to nothing due to their pages looking like
walking billboards.

So your numbers may be right, in terms of how to get $100 per day at
..18 cents per click ... but the mathematical formula isn't taking into
consideration the various variables that can have a site, with 27,777
visitors per day, only getting 18 cents per day [due to lower paying
ads shared or just attracting an audience that isn't
ad-click-happy/not seeing the ads to begin with] versus $100.

Bearing in mind that I am not out to make $100 per day in an affiliate
program - what I do on my site is not share any advertising on the
main page if I can get away without sharing any [one site has zero
adverts on the main page, the other has 2 amazon affiliate product
links]. On the inner pages I share Adsense with around 2 to 4 Amazon
affiliate product links. With both sites I went with the Adsense 2-ad
option versus the ones sharing 3 or more ads; I tried the larger ones
and then the smaller ones, and the click through rate remained
unchanged so I just went with the smaller display (which I felt looked
nicer on my pages anyway).

So the advertising shared would be, when counting in the rest of the
page's contents, about 15% out of the entire contents of that page.
This way, on my pages, if someone has the particular affiliate program
blocked on their side [so not seen] then it doesn't interfere with the
other 85% of the content - which is the actual 'calling card' and
'reason for existence' for the site. But then again my sites were not
created for the primary purpose of sharing affiliate ads.

The above is about the most I can offer for you to consider on your
side.

Carol
 
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Carol W
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-07-2005
On 6 Mar 2005 17:10:13 -0800, (E-Mail Removed) wrote:

>> Pay per click sucks.

>
>Do you think google adsense sucks. And do you think they are likely to
>fail to pay on legitamate clicks?


Actually Adsense has the reputation for booting people out for
questionable clicks and/or self-clicks. 'Click circle' thoughts is not
something you want to consider with Adsense if you really want to
participate in the program. Have you read through the Adsense forum on
WebMasterWorld's site?

Carol .

 
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NewsGuy
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-08-2005
First of all thanks Carol for taking the time to answer my post.

I was about to give up on newsgroups. (Not this group, just groups in
general) Thanks for sharing a bit of your knowledge.

----------------------------

The idea I'm getting at (in case anyone is curious) is *how *to *value *a
*site for ($) purchase based on the number of hits a site gets. I have read
(and found it to be true in my own very limited experience) that certain
adwords and affiliate programs pay much more than others, so the content of
the site as you said plays a factor. I will make up a hypothetical $0.18
from a good 'click broker' with a 2% click thru rate. I am looking at this
strictly from a buisness perspective. My buisness phylosiphy has always
been that you don't get something for nothing (at least not for very long)
and you have to provide a good service ie: people have to want to visit, you
give them good content, and they reward you by coming back. It is the same
in any buisness, but sufice to say I want to build a legitimate buisness
(win/win/win situations) for web surfers, myself and affiliates. I have no
intention of taking part in click scripts, scams, or whatever. nuff said.

A site with the above mentioned click thru rate and the above mentioned
avearge pay per click would mark up before expenses aprox. $36,500 asuming
all continued to go well, the clicks are authentic, etc.

I should have used an example of a site with less clicks as I supose this is
highly unusual to find a site that generates this much authentic traffic.
But here is jist of what I am getting at (I hope we don't digress to much
into authenticating hits, as I feel fairly confident this is next to
impossible):

A site I'm interested in purchasing I *estimate* has, say 500 hits per day?

The formula I might use to calculate its value looks something like this:
500 hits * .02 click thru rate *$0.18 average click pay * 365 days per year
= $657 per year - 150 per year in expenses = $507 in profit.
If the site was a content site that needed almost know updating each year
than as an investor I would very happy to Pay $500 for the site. Some
investors would say a buisness with little maintenance and a strong
possibility of coninuing forward for several years would be worth 5X
earnings. or roughly $2,500. I would not pay that much, but maybe some
people do.

Any idea what a 500 click a day ssight would be worth? $500? $2500? more?
less?

I realize I am left to guess about the true number of hits, but I think I
can get a rough idea by googling link:www.domain.com and checking the
*quality *of *links, and generall checking of links, search engines,
checking key words etc. could give me a rough idea.

I apologize if this is getting a bit off topic for alt.html.

Best Regards,
John


"Carol W" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On 6 Mar 2005 15:31:49 -0800, (E-Mail Removed) wrote:
>
> >
> >Where am I wrong in my numbers/math?
> >
> >If I were to try and earn a living through content sites that strictly
> >earned revenue on a basis of pay-per-click ads,
> >this is what I would need to do to make $100 per day.
> >
> >If a program aveaged $0.18 per click,
> >i would need 555.555 clicks per day.
> >
> >If a site had a 2% click thru rate,
> >it would need 27,777 visitors per day.
> >
> >
> >If you think a content only site with pay per click as the only form of
> >revenue is a bad idea, please post it to a new topic.

>
> I don't feel it is a bad idea but - depending on what content the site
> is offering - PPC may be just one option they can consider.
> Particularly if they get 27,777 visitors per day
>
> For example; Adsense works for some content sites but not all. Depends
> on the content offered. A travel site, offering reviews and
> commentaries about various places, may do well with what is triggered
> by Adsense to share on those pages. A site, about backpacking through
> Indiana or "where to visit while in Indiana", however may not do as
> well with Adsense even though it could be viewed being a travel site
> of some form.
>
> This isn't touching upon how Adsense bases what ads are shown by the
> on-page text and that some Adwords keywords have a higher scale than
> others - compare pregnancy to parenting, pregnancy seems to be a bit
> more 'lucrative' whereas parenting theme ads seem to be like those
> [lame] scripted eBay affiliate ads in terms of very low payout.
>
> Some people have coupled in Amazon with Adsense. I haven't explored
> many of the products one can offer through Amazon - mainly limit
> myself to some books and music that are selected to blend in and match
> the contents of the site. Although Amazon is primarily known as to
> where one can go to order books online - if you read the Amazon
> Affiliate boards it reads as though many of the affiliates make their
> revenue from offering the other products.
>
> Then - lastly - depends on how you handle the advertising shared on
> your pages and the type of audience that content is attracting. Some
> people claim to do well with their pages looking like walking
> billboards [ads interjected throughout the page's contents] while
> others generate next to nothing due to their pages looking like
> walking billboards.
>
> So your numbers may be right, in terms of how to get $100 per day at
> .18 cents per click ... but the mathematical formula isn't taking into
> consideration the various variables that can have a site, with 27,777
> visitors per day, only getting 18 cents per day [due to lower paying
> ads shared or just attracting an audience that isn't
> ad-click-happy/not seeing the ads to begin with] versus $100.
>
> Bearing in mind that I am not out to make $100 per day in an affiliate
> program - what I do on my site is not share any advertising on the
> main page if I can get away without sharing any [one site has zero
> adverts on the main page, the other has 2 amazon affiliate product
> links]. On the inner pages I share Adsense with around 2 to 4 Amazon
> affiliate product links. With both sites I went with the Adsense 2-ad
> option versus the ones sharing 3 or more ads; I tried the larger ones
> and then the smaller ones, and the click through rate remained
> unchanged so I just went with the smaller display (which I felt looked
> nicer on my pages anyway).
>
> So the advertising shared would be, when counting in the rest of the
> page's contents, about 15% out of the entire contents of that page.
> This way, on my pages, if someone has the particular affiliate program
> blocked on their side [so not seen] then it doesn't interfere with the
> other 85% of the content - which is the actual 'calling card' and
> 'reason for existence' for the site. But then again my sites were not
> created for the primary purpose of sharing affiliate ads.
>
> The above is about the most I can offer for you to consider on your
> side.
>
> Carol



 
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Always More Questions
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-08-2005
In article <2DaXd.11778$(E-Mail Removed)>,
"NewsGuy" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> First of all thanks Carol for taking the time to answer my post.
>
> I was about to give up on newsgroups. (Not this group, just groups in
> general) Thanks for sharing a bit of your knowledge.
>
> ----------------------------
>
> The idea I'm getting at (in case anyone is curious) is *how *to *value *a
> *site for ($) purchase based on the number of hits a site gets. I have read
> (and found it to be true in my own very limited experience) that certain
> adwords and affiliate programs pay much more than others, so the content of
> the site as you said plays a factor. I will make up a hypothetical $0.18
> from a good 'click broker' with a 2% click thru rate. I am looking at this
> strictly from a buisness perspective. My buisness phylosiphy has always
> been that you don't get something for nothing (at least not for very long)
> and you have to provide a good service ie: people have to want to visit, you
> give them good content, and they reward you by coming back. It is the same
> in any buisness, but sufice to say I want to build a legitimate buisness
> (win/win/win situations) for web surfers, myself and affiliates. I have no
> intention of taking part in click scripts, scams, or whatever. nuff said.
>
> A site with the above mentioned click thru rate and the above mentioned
> avearge pay per click would mark up before expenses aprox. $36,500 asuming
> all continued to go well, the clicks are authentic, etc.
>
> I should have used an example of a site with less clicks as I supose this is
> highly unusual to find a site that generates this much authentic traffic.
> But here is jist of what I am getting at (I hope we don't digress to much
> into authenticating hits, as I feel fairly confident this is next to
> impossible):
>
> A site I'm interested in purchasing I *estimate* has, say 500 hits per day?
>
> The formula I might use to calculate its value looks something like this:
> 500 hits * .02 click thru rate *$0.18 average click pay * 365 days per year
> = $657 per year - 150 per year in expenses = $507 in profit.
> If the site was a content site that needed almost know updating each year
> than as an investor I would very happy to Pay $500 for the site. Some
> investors would say a buisness with little maintenance and a strong
> possibility of coninuing forward for several years would be worth 5X
> earnings. or roughly $2,500. I would not pay that much, but maybe some
> people do.
>
> Any idea what a 500 click a day ssight would be worth? $500? $2500? more?
> less?
>
> I realize I am left to guess about the true number of hits, but I think I
> can get a rough idea by googling link:www.domain.com and checking the
> *quality *of *links, and generall checking of links, search engines,
> checking key words etc. could give me a rough idea.
>
> I apologize if this is getting a bit off topic for alt.html.
>
> Best Regards,
> John
>
>
> "Carol W" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > On 6 Mar 2005 15:31:49 -0800, (E-Mail Removed) wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >Where am I wrong in my numbers/math?
> > >
> > >If I were to try and earn a living through content sites that strictly
> > >earned revenue on a basis of pay-per-click ads,
> > >this is what I would need to do to make $100 per day.
> > >
> > >If a program aveaged $0.18 per click,
> > >i would need 555.555 clicks per day.
> > >
> > >If a site had a 2% click thru rate,
> > >it would need 27,777 visitors per day.
> > >
> > >
> > >If you think a content only site with pay per click as the only form of
> > >revenue is a bad idea, please post it to a new topic.

> >
> > I don't feel it is a bad idea but - depending on what content the site
> > is offering - PPC may be just one option they can consider.
> > Particularly if they get 27,777 visitors per day
> >
> > For example; Adsense works for some content sites but not all. Depends
> > on the content offered. A travel site, offering reviews and
> > commentaries about various places, may do well with what is triggered
> > by Adsense to share on those pages. A site, about backpacking through
> > Indiana or "where to visit while in Indiana", however may not do as
> > well with Adsense even though it could be viewed being a travel site
> > of some form.
> >
> > This isn't touching upon how Adsense bases what ads are shown by the
> > on-page text and that some Adwords keywords have a higher scale than
> > others - compare pregnancy to parenting, pregnancy seems to be a bit
> > more 'lucrative' whereas parenting theme ads seem to be like those
> > [lame] scripted eBay affiliate ads in terms of very low payout.
> >
> > Some people have coupled in Amazon with Adsense. I haven't explored
> > many of the products one can offer through Amazon - mainly limit
> > myself to some books and music that are selected to blend in and match
> > the contents of the site. Although Amazon is primarily known as to
> > where one can go to order books online - if you read the Amazon
> > Affiliate boards it reads as though many of the affiliates make their
> > revenue from offering the other products.
> >
> > Then - lastly - depends on how you handle the advertising shared on
> > your pages and the type of audience that content is attracting. Some
> > people claim to do well with their pages looking like walking
> > billboards [ads interjected throughout the page's contents] while
> > others generate next to nothing due to their pages looking like
> > walking billboards.
> >
> > So your numbers may be right, in terms of how to get $100 per day at
> > .18 cents per click ... but the mathematical formula isn't taking into
> > consideration the various variables that can have a site, with 27,777
> > visitors per day, only getting 18 cents per day [due to lower paying
> > ads shared or just attracting an audience that isn't
> > ad-click-happy/not seeing the ads to begin with] versus $100.
> >
> > Bearing in mind that I am not out to make $100 per day in an affiliate
> > program - what I do on my site is not share any advertising on the
> > main page if I can get away without sharing any [one site has zero
> > adverts on the main page, the other has 2 amazon affiliate product
> > links]. On the inner pages I share Adsense with around 2 to 4 Amazon
> > affiliate product links. With both sites I went with the Adsense 2-ad
> > option versus the ones sharing 3 or more ads; I tried the larger ones
> > and then the smaller ones, and the click through rate remained
> > unchanged so I just went with the smaller display (which I felt looked
> > nicer on my pages anyway).
> >
> > So the advertising shared would be, when counting in the rest of the
> > page's contents, about 15% out of the entire contents of that page.
> > This way, on my pages, if someone has the particular affiliate program
> > blocked on their side [so not seen] then it doesn't interfere with the
> > other 85% of the content - which is the actual 'calling card' and
> > 'reason for existence' for the site. But then again my sites were not
> > created for the primary purpose of sharing affiliate ads.
> >
> > The above is about the most I can offer for you to consider on your
> > side.
> >
> > Carol

>
>


Based on some personal experience, .02 click thru rate means the ads
aren't properly targeted.

If it were me, I'd be using affiliate links and not adsense.

500 clicks a day isn't earth shattering, but even if you were able to
sell one netscape sign-up a day, you'd earn $16 (currently) which is
almost an order of magnitude better income.
 
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Carol W
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-11-2005
On Tue, 8 Mar 2005 00:28:06 -0500, "NewsGuy" <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>First of all thanks Carol for taking the time to answer my post.


Not a problem.


[snip]
>A site I'm interested in purchasing I *estimate* has, say 500 hits per day?
>
>The formula I might use to calculate its value looks something like this:
>500 hits * .02 click thru rate *$0.18 average click pay * 365 days per year
>= $657 per year - 150 per year in expenses = $507 in profit.
>If the site was a content site that needed almost know updating each year
>than as an investor I would very happy to Pay $500 for the site. Some
>investors would say a buisness with little maintenance and a strong
>possibility of coninuing forward for several years would be worth 5X
>earnings. or roughly $2,500. I would not pay that much, but maybe some
>people do.
>
>Any idea what a 500 click a day ssight would be worth? $500? $2500? more?
>less?
>


Hard to say what a 500 click a day site might be worth. I know you are
trying to use an average amount per click but that isn't really the
way o go - could be setting your expectations up higher than they
should've been to begin with.

The two things that determine how much your site will make - whether
it is 500 click a day or higher/lower than 500 clicks a day :

1. Your content offered. If the content sucks - or something that
people may have read elsewhere already [nothing interesting or new] -
then folks may leave, to find the type of content they are seeking,
without clicking on any of the ads offered.
2. The type of audience your content is attracting. Some content
attracts a large number of folks but those folks not equating out to
high clicks on the ads - because your content is not aimed at
attracting in people thinking about "buying" [so why would they click
on an ad you offered?].

So really does depend on the content offered adn how you offer it. If
you have 250 words on a page but 15 ads shared - may turn off folks
that way too. You would get some clicks- don't get me wrong - but they
may be sparodic [in frequency and in value - to you]. If you are
presenting, say, an Web design tutorial then people, that you are
attracting in, may not click on ads for web designer's services or -
due to having a copy of DW or whatever already - not clicking to
purchase a copy of those programs.

And then, with something like Adsense or Adsense similar programs
offered elsewhere, that uses your contents to determine the ads shared
- you will want the ads targetted to YOUR content and not have a
dating, people finder, or a "background check" ad showing up on a page
about where you are sharing how to add a background image to a web
page.

This isn't even considering the thoughts of if your traffic is 95%
from the search engines or 35 to 45% returning traffic - as returning
visitors [or regulars to your site] is theorized to, after a while,
may be able to 'tune out' the advertising shared or, after the 2nd or
3rd visit, not be as inclined to click on any ad offered on your
pages. Or that certain content is rumored to share better pay-out ads
than other content.

I have two sites that I handle the advertising identically on [in
terms of quantity and placement]. Unique Visitors amounts not shabby
and both seem to equal footing on 'returning visitors' thoughts [about
30% are 'regular readers' or following links from other sites - rest
comes from search engines]. BUT their themes or topics are vastly
different - one is humorous while the other is serious. One of them
does fairly decent with - the other, however, gets maybe 5 clicks a
month on the ads and most of those being the amazon links offered to
books or certain music CDs [I went the Individual Links route with
Amazon]. I am debating scraping all but the amazon links from the one
site - people, the site attracts, seem to be kinda ok considering a
music or book selection recommendation but not interested in much else
offered 'for their consideration'.

>I realize I am left to guess about the true number of hits, but I think I
>can get a rough idea by googling link:www.domain.com and checking the
>*quality *of *links, and generall checking of links, search engines,
>checking key words etc. could give me a rough idea.


I would advise reading through forums aimed at Adsense - as some of
the tips shared for that are quite good to mull over when looking at
your Amazon affiliate selections/handling on your pages. Some
information shared doesn't go into specifics like how many hits or
click throughs but discusses placement and such thoughts that you may
find helpful also or just worth mulling over on your side.

Some people have managed to make a nice sum of money through it - some
have to wait 6 to 9 months for a check. Those who make a _really_ nice
sum will share that most of them have tightly and nicely niched their
contents so part of their success stems back to that [in their
opinion]. WebMasterWorld is one place you can sit, with a cup of
coffee or bottle of soda pop, to read through myriad of posts and
threads about the topic.

But if you read about someone making a $100 a week; read it but don't
let that have you become overly optimistic or pessimistic either. Each
site is different, content and handling wise, even if that other
person has a site about the same topic as yours.

Carol

 
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