Link rel="start"

12-17-2004

Hi,
Is it better to write the
title of a Link rel="start" in the same language as the start page is or in
English?
For example
<LINK rel="start"
type="text/html"
href="schuhe-art-86.html"
title="1st page about shoes in German">
on this page in German
http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/de/schuhe-art-86.html

Should the title be the same as the title of the page
http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/de/schuhe-art-86.html
or give information about which kind of documents that page is the start
for
(for example 1st page about shoes in German) ?

--
Luigi ( un italiano che vive in Svezia)
http://www.italymap.dk
http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/...rtikel-86.html

12-17-2004

On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 06:36:57 GMT, Luigi Donatello Asero
<> wrote:

> Is it better to write the
> title of a Link rel="start" in the same language as the start page is or
> in English?

Keep your visitor in mind here. What language will s/he use? What language
will s/he expect to be able to use for your pages? Use that language.
BTW: I don't know is link rel="start" is well supported. I know link
rel="home" or link rel="index" are.

> Should the title be the same as the title of the page

It can be, assuming you mean title in the head of the page and title as
appearing in the page itself. It can be, but it doesn't need to be. The
title in the head of the page serves more than one function. It appears in
the very top of the browser chrome (IE) or in the tabs (FF, OP) to show
your visitor where s/he's at. It also has a huge function for search
enginges such as Google to be able to tell what your page is about. The
title in the page itself is largely there for your human visitor, although
search engines do seem to pay attention to content that is marked up with
<h#> tags as header elements.

I usually have a different title in the head of my page than on the page
itself. For example:

<html>
<head>
<title>Example | An example page on titles for and in html
pages</title>
</head>

<body>
<h1>Example page on titles</h1>

<h2>Title in the head of an html page</h2>

<p>Some text here</p>

<h2>Title in the html page itself</h2>

<p>More text here</p>
</body>
</html>

--
Weblog | <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/_private/weblog.html>
Webontwerp | <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/webontwerp.html>
Zweefvliegen | <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/vliegen.html>

12-17-2004

"Barbara de Zoete" <> skrev i meddelandet
news

psi49gyi2x5vgts@zoete_b...
> On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 06:36:57 GMT, Luigi Donatello Asero
> <> wrote:
>
> > Is it better to write the
> > title of a Link rel="start" in the same language as the start page is or
> > in English?
>
> Keep your visitor in mind here. What language will s/he use? What language
> will s/he expect to be able to use for your pages? Use that language.
> BTW: I don't know is link rel="start" is well supported. I know link
> rel="home" or link rel="index" are.

This kind of link is placed in the head of the html code and is used by
search engines, not by users as far as I understand
See: http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/appe...s.html#h-B.4.1
So, the question is which language search engines speak!!

> > Should the title be the same as the title of the page
>
> It can be, assuming you mean title in the head of the page and title as
> appearing in the page itself. It can be, but it doesn't need to be. The
> title in the head of the page serves more than one function. It appears in
> the very top of the browser chrome (IE) or in the tabs (FF, OP) to show
> your visitor where s/he's at. It also has a huge function for search
> enginges such as Google to be able to tell what your page is about. The
> title in the page itself is largely there for your human visitor, although
> search engines do seem to pay attention to content that is marked up with
> <h#> tags as header elements.

See above
> I usually have a different title in the head of my page than on the page
> itself. For example:
>
> <html>
> <head>
> <title>Example | An example page on titles for and in html
> pages</title>
> </head>
>
> <body>
> <h1>Example page on titles</h1>
>
> <h2>Title in the head of an html page</h2>
>
> <p>Some text here</p>
>
> <h2>Title in the html page itself</h2>
>
> <p>More text here</p>
> </body>
> </html>

See http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/appe...s.html#h-B.4.1

--
Luigi ( un italiano che vive in Svezia)
http://www.italymap.dk
http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/de/schuhe-art-86.html

12-17-2004

"Luigi Donatello Asero" <> skrev i meddelandet
news:B0Cwd.11381$...
>
> "Barbara de Zoete" <> skrev i meddelandet
> news

psi49gyi2x5vgts@zoete_b...
> > On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 06:36:57 GMT, Luigi Donatello Asero
> > <> wrote:
> >
> > > Is it better to write the
> > > title of a Link rel="start" in the same language as the start page is
or
> > > in English?
> >
> > Keep your visitor in mind here. What language will s/he use? What
language
> > will s/he expect to be able to use for your pages? Use that language.
> > BTW: I don't know is link rel="start" is well supported. I know link
> > rel="home" or link rel="index" are.
>
> This kind of link is placed in the head of the html code and is used by
> search engines, not by users as far as I understand
> See: http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/appe...s.html#h-B.4.1
> So, the question is which language search engines speak!!

Under
"Indicate the beginning of a collection "
http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/appe...s.html#h-B.4.1

there is an example in English but it might be a coincidence.
Furthermore, I cannot see the actual page and then know which title it has
in the code.

--
Luigi ( un italiano che vive in Svezia)
http://www.italymap.dk
http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/de/schuhe-art-86.html

12-17-2004

Luigi Donatello Asero" <> wrote:
>"Barbara de Zoete" <> skrev i meddelandet
>news

psi49gyi2x5vgts@zoete_b...
>> On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 06:36:57 GMT, Luigi Donatello Asero
>> <> wrote:
>>
>> > Is it better to write the
>> > title of a Link rel="start" in the same language as the start page is or
>> > in English?

The same as the page. If a user is browsing a German language page
then they will expect to see links in German, whether they appear as
part of the page or as part of the links toolbar.

>> Keep your visitor in mind here. What language will s/he use? What language
>> will s/he expect to be able to use for your pages? Use that language.
>> BTW: I don't know is link rel="start" is well supported. I know link
>> rel="home" or link rel="index" are.
>
>This kind of link is placed in the head of the html code and is used by
>search engines, not by users as far as I understand

No, they're used by users. The link toolbar is displayed in Opera,
Mozilla and Lynx, amongst others, and can be installed as an addon in
Firefox and IE.

I don't know if any search engine follows <link>s, but if they do then
they'll probably treat them as normal links.

>See: http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/appe...s.html#h-B.4.1

Did you mean
http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/appe...tes.html#h-B.4 ?

I presume you're referring to the section headed "ndicate the
beginning of a collection". As far as I know no search engine does
that. But they might follow the link anyway.

>So, the question is which language search engines speak!!

All of them. Badly.

Steve

12-17-2004

On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 14:26:41 GMT, Luigi Donatello Asero
<> wrote:

> "Barbara de Zoete" <> skrev i meddelandet
> news

psi49gyi2x5vgts@zoete_b...
>> On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 06:36:57 GMT, Luigi Donatello Asero
>> <> wrote:
>>
>>> Is it better to write the
>>> title of a Link rel="start" in the same language as the start page is
>>> or
>>> in English?
>>
>> Keep your visitor in mind here. What language will s/he use? What
>> language
>> will s/he expect to be able to use for your pages? Use that language.
>> BTW: I don't know is link rel="start" is well supported. I know link
>> rel="home" or link rel="index" are.
>
> This kind of link is placed in the head of the html code and is used by
> search engines,

And by all who use Opera, Lynx, FireFox. Thus by me.

> not by users as far as I understand

You understand wrong. Go hypnotise yourself, humming 'users, users, users,
users' for about fourty minutes. Search engines will love you if you write
and design with accessibility and usablitity in mind.

--
Weblog | <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/_private/weblog.html>
Webontwerp | <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/webontwerp.html>
Zweefvliegen | <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/vliegen.html>

12-17-2004

"Barbara de Zoete" <> skrev i meddelandet
news

psi5smnrfx5vgts@zoete_b...
> On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 14:26:41 GMT, Luigi Donatello Asero
> <> wrote:
>
> > "Barbara de Zoete" <> skrev i meddelandet
> > news

psi49gyi2x5vgts@zoete_b...
> >> On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 06:36:57 GMT, Luigi Donatello Asero
> >> <> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Is it better to write the
> >>> title of a Link rel="start" in the same language as the start page is
> >>> or
> >>> in English?
> >>
> >> Keep your visitor in mind here. What language will s/he use? What
> >> language
> >> will s/he expect to be able to use for your pages? Use that language.
> >> BTW: I don't know is link rel="start" is well supported. I know link
> >> rel="home" or link rel="index" are.
> >
> > This kind of link is placed in the head of the html code and is used by
> > search engines,
>
> And by all who use Opera, Lynx, FireFox. Thus by me.
>
> > not by users as far as I understand
>
> You understand wrong. Go hypnotise yourself, humming 'users, users, users,
> users' for about fourty minutes. Search engines will love you if you write
> and design with accessibility and usablitity in mind.

I think you misunderstod me. I have navigation links for the users on the
site. So I write navigation links for the user and Link rel="start" for
search engines.
By the way, I do not think that most of the users visiting my website use
Opera, Lynx, FireFox. So, do you see such Link rel="start" if you use IE?
I suppose you do not.

--
Luigi ( un italiano che vive in Svezia)
http://www.italymap.dk
http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/de/schuhe-art-86.html

12-17-2004

On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 20:19:30 GMT, Luigi Donatello Asero
<> wrote:

> "Barbara de Zoete" <> skrev i meddelandet
> news

psi5smnrfx5vgts@zoete_b...
>
>> On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 14:26:41 GMT, Luigi Donatello Asero
>> <> wrote:
>>
>>> "Barbara de Zoete" <> skrev i meddelandet
>>> news

psi49gyi2x5vgts@zoete_b...
>>>> On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 06:36:57 GMT, Luigi Donatello Asero
>>>> <> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Is it better to write the
>>>>> title of a Link rel="start" in the same language as the start page is
>>>>> or
>>>>> in English?
>>>>
>>>> Keep your visitor in mind here. What language will s/he use? What
>>>> language
>>>> will s/he expect to be able to use for your pages? Use that language.
>>>> BTW: I don't know is link rel="start" is well supported. I know link
>>>> rel="home" or link rel="index" are.
>>>
>>> This kind of link is placed in the head of the html code and is used by
>>> search engines,
>>
>> And by all who use Opera, Lynx, FireFox. Thus by me.
>>
>>> not by users as far as I understand
>>
>> You understand wrong. Go hypnotise yourself, humming 'users, users,
>> users,
>> users' for about fourty minutes. Search engines will love you if you
>> write
>> and design with accessibility and usablitity in mind.
>
> I think you misunderstod me.

No I did not.

> I have navigation links for the users on the
> site. So I write navigation links for the user
>

So far so good.

> and Link rel="start" for
> search engines.
>

Here you go again. WRONG! *You*are*wrong* . One: don't write for search
engines. Do good for visitors, search engines will have no problem what so
ever indexing your site.

> By the way, I do not think that most of the users visiting my website use
> Opera, Lynx, FireFox. So, do you see such Link rel="start" if you use
> IE?

You miss the point entirely. I do not use IE and with me milions of others
do not use IE. And with IE you can get an extension (IIRC) that displays
the pagemenu you build *for*visitors* with the link element in the head of
a page.

> I suppose you do not.
>

But, never mind. Byebye,

--
Weblog | <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/_private/weblog.html>
Webontwerp | <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/webontwerp.html>
Zweefvliegen | <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/vliegen.html>

12-17-2004

"Steve Pugh" <> skrev i meddelandet
news:...
> Luigi Donatello Asero" <> wrote:
> >"Barbara de Zoete" <> skrev i meddelandet
> >news

psi49gyi2x5vgts@zoete_b...
> >> On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 06:36:57 GMT, Luigi Donatello Asero
> >> <> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Is it better to write the
> >> > title of a Link rel="start" in the same language as the start page is
or
> >> > in English?
>
> The same as the page.

Ok. I changed it.

> Did you mean
> http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/appe...tes.html#h-B.4 ?
>
> I presume you're referring to the section headed "ndicate the
> beginning of a collection".

Yes

--
Luigi ( un italiano che vive in Svezia)
http://www.italymap.dk
http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/de/schuhe.html

12-17-2004

"Barbara de Zoete" <> skrev i meddelandet
news

psi55tbd5x5vgts@zoete_b...
> On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 20:19:30 GMT, Luigi Donatello Asero
> <> wrote:
>
> > I have navigation links for the users on the
> > site. So I write navigation links for the user
> >
>
> So far so good.
>
> > and Link rel="start" for
> > search engines.
> >
>
> Here you go again. WRONG! *You*are*wrong* . One: don't write for search
> engines. Do good for visitors, search engines will have no problem what so
> ever indexing your site.

Did you read
"B.4 Notes on helping search engines index your Web site" ?
http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/appe...tes.html#h-B.4

I am trying to help them. You do not need do it, if you do not want to.

> > By the way, I do not think that most of the users visiting my website
use
> > Opera, Lynx, FireFox. So, do you see such Link rel="start" if you use
> > IE?
>
> You miss the point entirely. I do not use IE and with me milions of others
> do not use IE. And with IE you can get an extension (IIRC) that displays
> the pagemenu you build *for*visitors* with the link element in the head of
> a page.

How many people use this extension?

--
Luigi ( un italiano che vive in Svezia)
http://www.italymap.dk
http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/de/schuhe.html

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