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<Hx> tags usage

 
 
Noozer
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      10-12-2004

"Noozer" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:gryad.711979$gE.681446@pd7tw3no...
> Just wondering what the proper usage is for heading tags.
>
> Is it proper to start using <h3> if you haven't used an <h1> or <h2> tag?


Thanks all!

The replies made sense... I know it's not a BIG issue, but still worth
considering.



 
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DU
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      10-13-2004
Noozer wrote:
> Just wondering what the proper usage is for heading tags.
>
> Is it proper to start using <h3> if you haven't used an <h1> or <h2> tag?


No. And iso-HTML (iso 15445) requires that headings start with <h1>,
that the document respects logical orders of headings otherwise this
will be reported as validation errors.
There are reasons for this. Assistive technologies rely on such order.
Overall editorial conventions of printed documents (newspapers, books,
magazines) follow such rules too.

DU
--
The site said to use Internet Explorer 5 or better... so I switched to
Mozilla 1.7.3
 
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Kris
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      10-16-2004
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
Andy Dingley <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> >Just wondering what the proper usage is for heading tags.

>
> There is none. Zilch. Nada.


There is. ISO HTML tells you you must start with H1 and not skip any
levels. This is actually a real standard.

--
Kris
<(E-Mail Removed)> (nl)
 
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Neal
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      10-16-2004
On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 13:14:25 +0200, Kris <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

> In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
> Andy Dingley <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> >Just wondering what the proper usage is for heading tags.

>>
>> There is none. Zilch. Nada.

>
> There is. ISO HTML tells you you must start with H1 and not skip any
> levels. This is actually a real standard.


... if you code to ISO. If you don't, it's irrelevent.

 
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Andy Dingley
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      10-16-2004
On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 13:14:25 +0200, Kris
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>There is. ISO HTML tells you you must start with H1 and not skip any
>levels. This is actually a real standard.


Yes, but it's an ISO standard and they smell.


Our weapon is unswerving allegiance to the W3C !

 
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Jukka K. Korpela
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      10-18-2004
Andy Dingley <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 13:14:25 +0200, Kris
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>There is. ISO HTML tells you you must start with H1 and not skip any
>>levels. This is actually a real standard.

>
> Yes, but it's an ISO standard and they smell.
>
> Our weapon is unswerving allegiance to the W3C !


.... and her mighty state of Xhysteria. And the W3C virtually ridicules
structured use of headings as nitpicking:

"Some people consider skipping heading levels to be bad practice. They
accept H1 H2 H1 while they do not accept H1 H3 H1 since the heading level
H2 is skipped."
http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/global.html#edef-H1

As usual, the HTML 2.0 specification (oddly hosted by the W3C in a
primitive hypertext format) is a great improvement over its successors:

"The six heading elements, H1 through H6, denote section headings.
Although the order and occurrence of headings is not constrained by the
HTML DTD, documents should not skip levels (for example, from H1 to H3),
as converting such documents to other representations is often
problematic."
http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/html-spec/h..._5.html#SEC5.4

Note the lack of misleading babble about "importance" there.

--
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
Pages about Web authoring: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/www.html


 
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Neal
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      10-18-2004
On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 06:24:46 +0000 (UTC), Jukka K. Korpela
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> "Some people consider skipping heading levels to be bad practice. They
> accept H1 H2 H1 while they do not accept H1 H3 H1 since the heading level
> H2 is skipped."
> http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/global.html#edef-H1


This is a set-off note to the section on headings, in fairness to the
reader.
> ...
> "The six heading elements, H1 through H6, denote section headings.
> Although the order and occurrence of headings is not constrained by the
> HTML DTD, documents should not skip levels (for example, from H1 to H3),
> as converting such documents to other representations is often
> problematic."
> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/html-spec/h..._5.html#SEC5.4


Actually, these together are very illustrative. I tend to try to see the
HTML4 explanations with an eye for history, seeing them as written by, and
for, people familiar with the earlier recommendations.

> Note the lack of misleading babble about "importance" there.


.... which we see in the 3.2 recommendation...

"H1, H2, H3, H4, H5 and H6 are used for document headings. You always need
the start and end tags. H1 elements are more important than H2 elements
and so on, so that H6 elements define the least important level of
headings."
http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html32#headings

.... as well as in the 4.01 you quoted above.

To me, this implies that headings were originally intended in terms of
"level" - the H1 was the most encompassing heading on the page, H2 the
next after, etc. Later, they got wishy-washy and allowed for the headings
to be used out of typical term-paper order - as the original internet was
mainly academic papers, it would make sense to follow academic procedures,
but they are now nodding toward the more commercial aspects of the
internet.

Me, I prefer following a very strict ordering of headings. One H1 per
page. The page is divided up into H2's, allowing for a prolog before the
first H2. H2 sections can be similarly divided up into H3's.

But, it would seem that, although this method is very usable and works
well in any situation, the W3C have pandered to the average author who
knows nothing of the history of the internet.

I'd characterize that as sad, but is it? Perhaps not. Perhaps strict
adherance to ordered headings is not a necessity of a good web page. Until
I am convinced of that, though, I'll continue using strict ordering of my
headings.
 
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