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Repositioning

 
 
Neil Greenough
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Posts: n/a
 
      08-29-2004
I need to change something on the following site:-

http://www.continental-translations.com/languages.htm

If you look in the sidebar, the links to the other pages are in the middle
of the page. I designed the website in Frontpage and so don't know how to
change this. What i'd like is for the links to the other pages in the
sidebar to be positioned at the top of the page (just like the other pages).
Could anybody please look at the 'source' on this page and then tell me what
I need to change and what I need to change it to?

Thanks


 
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Neal
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-29-2004
On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 15:10:07 +0000 (UTC), Neil Greenough
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> I need to change something on the following site:-
>
> http://www.continental-translations.com/languages.htm


Hmm. I agree.

> If you look in the sidebar, the links to the other pages are in the
> middle
> of the page. I designed the website in Frontpage


I'm sorry.

> and so don't know how to
> change this.


I'm building this big cabinet. I bought this great set of tools, and I
don't know how to do it.

Authoring software is a tool for those who know how to use it, not a robot
ready to do your bidding, no matter what Microshit's marketing team told
you when they sold you this absolute piece of garbage painted to look like
authoring software.

Do yourself a HUGE favor and learn how to do HTML without this piece of
crap, please. Do it for the children. Doesn't have to be overnight,
either. But until you know HTML and CSS well enough to do the job without
authoring software, authoring software will provide no benefit and much in
the way of problems to your pages.

I'm not trying to be an asshole, really. I'm trying to impress upon you
how woefully inadequate your expectations of this software are. It's not
suited for any application it was designed to accomplish.

> What i'd like is for the links to the other pages in the
> sidebar to be positioned at the top of the page (just like the other
> pages).
> Could anybody please look at the 'source' on this page and then tell me
> what
> I need to change and what I need to change it to?


<img border="0" src="images/nav%20buttons/home.gif" align="absmiddle"
width="29" height="8">

Bad bad bad.

1. No borders mean image as link cannot be discerned as such, so provide
some other cue to tell the user this is a link. It might be more obvious
once this is fixed.
2. align="absmiddle" not only would seem to cause the problem you report,
but it also doesn't really exist and is bound to screw up some UA. Plus
align is so last decade. CSS can do this so much cleaner.
3. No alt text. This is a link, right? What if images don't load, or
cannot for a user?
4. This does not even need to be an image! Images cannot resize well like
text. If the user is sight-impaired the image might be too small - in
fact, these images make this likely.

This is just one example of why FrontPage should NEVER be used. You're
creating a terribly inaccessible and poorly usable page with it.

BTW this amuses me incredibly. It's the first div on the page.

<div align="center">
<center>
<table border="0" width="629" height="80" bordercolor="#0099CC"
style.css cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
<tr>
<td width="665" height="83"><img border="0" src="images/top_im.gif"
width="665" height="83"></td>
</tr>
</table>
</center>
</div>

It's so, so, so wrong on many levels. If this won't prove FP is a pile of
steaming doody, what will? It can't even misuse table markup properly.

I leave it as an exercise to the OP to find out what's stupid and wrong
here. I see 5 things without even thinking about it that are just inane or
incorrect.
 
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Neal
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-29-2004
On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 11:34:00 -0400, Neal <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> BTW this amuses me incredibly. It's the first div on the page.


Apologies, a copy-paste error made it worse than it actually is. This is
correct:

<div align="center">
<center>
<table border="0" width="629" height="80" bordercolor="#0099CC"
style="border: 2 solid #0099CC" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
<tr>
<td width="665" height="83"><img border="0" src="images/top_im.gif"
width="665" height="83"></td>
</tr>
</table>
</center>
</div>

Still extremely wrong.
 
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WebcastMaker
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-29-2004
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed)
says...
> Authoring software is a tool for those who know how to use it, not a robot
> ready to do your bidding, no matter what Microshit's marketing team told
> you when they sold you this absolute piece of garbage painted to look like
> authoring software.


This says, "I am a bitter little man" There is little need to belittle
something just because you don't like it. I thought you may have been
better than that.

> Do yourself a HUGE favor and learn how to do HTML

Good advice

> without this piece of crap..

There you go again..


> I'm not trying to be an asshole, really.

But that's how you came across.

> I'm trying to impress upon you
> how woefully inadequate your expectations of this software are. It's not
> suited for any application it was designed to accomplish.


ANY tool used to develop web pages is not mutually exclusive with
understanding HTML/css. FP is completely capable of producing fully
compliant code. One just has to know how to use it.

If you remove all your Microsoft bashing, your post was full of good
information. But how many people never got to the good advice, because
you came across as a MS basher, so they turned you off. Calling
Microsoft names like Microshit, really does not fit well with someone
trying to give good advice to newbies.

Are there better tools out there? Maybe, but it is personal choice what
one might consider better. And what one considers better, evolves over
time to. This coming from an ex dream weaver user that now is a devoted
topstyle user.

--
WebcastMaker
Webcasting for free
http://www.webentations.com
 
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Anna Bessant
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-29-2004
To be honest, I don't have the time to learn HTML and I don't want to make a
living out of designing websites. Likewise, I am happy with the way the
website is apart from this one part.

If anybody could repost the html source for this page which would position
the side bar at the top, would appreciate it!

Neal, I appreciate what you say, however as I said, I don't have the time to
do it!


"WebcastMaker" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed).. .
> In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, (E-Mail Removed)
> says...
> > Authoring software is a tool for those who know how to use it, not a

robot
> > ready to do your bidding, no matter what Microshit's marketing team told
> > you when they sold you this absolute piece of garbage painted to look

like
> > authoring software.

>
> This says, "I am a bitter little man" There is little need to belittle
> something just because you don't like it. I thought you may have been
> better than that.
>
> > Do yourself a HUGE favor and learn how to do HTML

> Good advice
>
> > without this piece of crap..

> There you go again..
>
>
> > I'm not trying to be an asshole, really.

> But that's how you came across.
>
> > I'm trying to impress upon you
> > how woefully inadequate your expectations of this software are. It's not
> > suited for any application it was designed to accomplish.

>
> ANY tool used to develop web pages is not mutually exclusive with
> understanding HTML/css. FP is completely capable of producing fully
> compliant code. One just has to know how to use it.
>
> If you remove all your Microsoft bashing, your post was full of good
> information. But how many people never got to the good advice, because
> you came across as a MS basher, so they turned you off. Calling
> Microsoft names like Microshit, really does not fit well with someone
> trying to give good advice to newbies.
>
> Are there better tools out there? Maybe, but it is personal choice what
> one might consider better. And what one considers better, evolves over
> time to. This coming from an ex dream weaver user that now is a devoted
> topstyle user.
>
> --
> WebcastMaker
> Webcasting for free
> http://www.webentations.com



 
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Neal
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-29-2004
On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 13:19:11 -0400, WebcastMaker <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> This says, "I am a bitter little man"


Well, bitter and man, ok. I'm not that little though

Point well taken, but isn't it true that it's next to impossible to
produce a really good piece of work with FP without knowing the code
better than the program, and putting in extra time to undo the errors the
authoring software inserts by default?

Essentially, I protest the view that this software is your own personal
web designer, and all you need to do is hit a few buttons and POOF there's
a webpage. It is an insult to the hard work which actually goes into
creating a good page.
 
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WebcastMaker
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-29-2004
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, (E-Mail Removed)
says...
> > This says, "I am a bitter little man"

> Well, bitter and man, ok. I'm not that little though


Atkins, down over 100 pounds in just over a year!

> Point well taken, but isn't it true that it's next to impossible to
> produce a really good piece of work with FP without knowing the code
> better than the program, and putting in extra time to undo the errors the
> authoring software inserts by default?


FP produced horrendous code out of the box. As does (but not as bad)
any WYSIWYG editor. HML/CSS knowledge is mandatory regardless of the
tool you use to write the code. Some pretty nasty sites have been
written with notepad... But then that too is a MS product (0_o)

> Essentially, I protest the view that this software is your own personal
> web designer, and all you need to do is hit a few buttons and POOF there's
> a webpage. It is an insult to the hard work which actually goes into
> creating a good page.


Agreed

--
WebcastMaker
Webcasting for free
http://www.webentations.com
 
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SomeGei
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-30-2004
wow... some people seriously need to get a life..

"Neal" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 15:10:07 +0000 (UTC), Neil Greenough
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> I need to change something on the following site:-
>>
>> http://www.continental-translations.com/languages.htm

>
> Hmm. I agree.
>
>> If you look in the sidebar, the links to the other pages are in the
>> middle
>> of the page. I designed the website in Frontpage

>
> I'm sorry.
>
>> and so don't know how to
>> change this.

>
> I'm building this big cabinet. I bought this great set of tools, and I
> don't know how to do it.
>
> Authoring software is a tool for those who know how to use it, not a robot
> ready to do your bidding, no matter what Microshit's marketing team told
> you when they sold you this absolute piece of garbage painted to look like
> authoring software.
>
> Do yourself a HUGE favor and learn how to do HTML without this piece of
> crap, please. Do it for the children. Doesn't have to be overnight,
> either. But until you know HTML and CSS well enough to do the job without
> authoring software, authoring software will provide no benefit and much in
> the way of problems to your pages.
>
> I'm not trying to be an asshole, really. I'm trying to impress upon you
> how woefully inadequate your expectations of this software are. It's not
> suited for any application it was designed to accomplish.
>
>> What i'd like is for the links to the other pages in the
>> sidebar to be positioned at the top of the page (just like the other
>> pages).
>> Could anybody please look at the 'source' on this page and then tell me
>> what
>> I need to change and what I need to change it to?

>
> <img border="0" src="images/nav%20buttons/home.gif" align="absmiddle"
> width="29" height="8">
>
> Bad bad bad.
>
> 1. No borders mean image as link cannot be discerned as such, so provide
> some other cue to tell the user this is a link. It might be more obvious
> once this is fixed.
> 2. align="absmiddle" not only would seem to cause the problem you report,
> but it also doesn't really exist and is bound to screw up some UA. Plus
> align is so last decade. CSS can do this so much cleaner.
> 3. No alt text. This is a link, right? What if images don't load, or
> cannot for a user?
> 4. This does not even need to be an image! Images cannot resize well like
> text. If the user is sight-impaired the image might be too small - in
> fact, these images make this likely.
>
> This is just one example of why FrontPage should NEVER be used. You're
> creating a terribly inaccessible and poorly usable page with it.
>
> BTW this amuses me incredibly. It's the first div on the page.
>
> <div align="center">
> <center>
> <table border="0" width="629" height="80" bordercolor="#0099CC"
> style.css cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
> <tr>
> <td width="665" height="83"><img border="0" src="images/top_im.gif"
> width="665" height="83"></td>
> </tr>
> </table>
> </center>
> </div>
>
> It's so, so, so wrong on many levels. If this won't prove FP is a pile of
> steaming doody, what will? It can't even misuse table markup properly.
>
> I leave it as an exercise to the OP to find out what's stupid and wrong
> here. I see 5 things without even thinking about it that are just inane or
> incorrect.



 
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WebcastMaker
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-30-2004
In article <XAuYc.888$(E-Mail Removed) rs.com>,
(E-Mail Removed) says...
> wow... some people seriously need to get a life..


na, you just have to lurk a while to understand the personalities.
Believe it or not, some people even think Im an ass.

Go figure... (0_o)
--
WebcastMaker
Webcasting for free
http://www.webentations.com
 
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Lois
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-30-2004
"Neil Greenough" wrote:
: I need to change something on the following site:-
:
: http://www.continental-translations.com/languages.htm
:
: If you look in the sidebar, the links to the other pages are in the middle
: of the page. I designed the website in Frontpage and so don't know how to
: change this. What i'd like is for the links to the other pages in the
: sidebar to be positioned at the top of the page (just like the other
pages).
: Could anybody please look at the 'source' on this page and then tell me
what
: I need to change and what I need to change it to?

I agree with the others that the coding is atrocious, but if you don't have
time to fix it, I suggest at least making the menu links into text links and
not images.

Take a look at http://beta.wordsweave.com/continental.html, where I
temporarily uploaded your page. (It's in a subdomain where search engines
won't find it, and I'll take it down after you've seen it.) First I added
"valign="top"" to the td cell that has the menu. The menu didn't appear for
me, so I changed the first 3 links to text links, and they appear now at the
top of the column.

The links appear at the top of the column for your other pages because the
other pages are shorter. Without "valign="top"" (quotation marks only around
"top"), the cell contents are centred, but you don't see this as much on
shorter pages because the menu takes up most of the column.

Lois



 
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