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html/css compliant

 
 
derek giroulle
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Posts: n/a
 
      06-21-2004
Hi all,

after reading up during the last weekend on the last 700 messages in
this newsgroup and documents referred to in the FAQ and in
signatures/responses from the more illuster memebers of this group I
have a question .

Before I would like to ask don't flame about my English I'm a native of
another tongue , don't flame if I happend touch your particular
deadbeaten horse, and don't repeat unuseful contributions like
"I don't like tables" or "I don't like frames" : I don't either and
that's why i'm here !

The current state of the project can be seen at www.skimaroc.tk.
I'm currently using tables as a formatting tool, I'm sorry about that
and I don't want to revert to using frames.

I use DreamweaverMX as my development tool, and I want a site that is as
close to HTML / CSS (w3c-standards) as possible. My ISP doesn't provide
me with PHP, ASP, or serverside-scripting facilities, (i don't know if i
can do SSI)

Scope : I need to support a website that caters for people much UNLIKE
myself, else I would have made it entirely in English , my readers
however don't speak English or as a matter of fact can speak one or two
of the other languages.

I have some elements I would call common : and that should envelope the
information on the site.(say a graphic topbanner, a righthand bar and a
footer.
The problem is with the rest

objective and contraints of the development

1- navigation
1.1 -I would like to make a single content file for each language such
that I only have to maintain 1 TOC.
1.2 however I would like the TOC to be "context sensitive" such that I
can show the subjects of interest to the user
(assume he is interested in press related information) the user would
select the press item in the menu and would be shown the menu with press
related links on the top. those links would direct him to information of
direct interest like press-releases, press articles and information
about skiing,
however that latter subject is also of interest to our members and would
come up as an item on the menu used by our members where member-related
subjects would be on top
1-3 I would like to use the content-link file also as a site map for the
site
How do I go about this without having to repeat whole chunks of links in
different menu items

2- think of how frames work - BUT i don't want to use frames - because I
would have problems with spiders and search engines,
I setup the envelope and I display central content pages and a menu
within that envelope.
I would like to make central content pages that have maximum content and
minimal quantity of the common graphical envelope items and without the
menu
each page would come with some links to a <title>(previous) and a
<title>(next) page and a link to the languagemain (home) page
Inside the text some external refernces are used. However I don't want
the user to go away from my site ( so I open that page in a new browser
page for IE and new tab in opera, mozzila and netcaptor) I do the same
if the user gets a single language page (1 menu language, multi language
content)
Nevertheless the central content pages (if not displayed in another tab)
when clicked from the menu or from within a curent page should display
in the central content area.
Currently some of the datafiles are much too long or devided at such
ackward places that the logic of the content is not maintained

3- I would like to maintain a breadcrumbs trail of how people got to the
informationpage they are looking at where could i find a script that
would maintain/display this

Any advice from the experts how this can be realised?
links to clientside scripts -Dhtml- etc that can be helpful are appreciated

derek

 
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Mitja
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Posts: n/a
 
      06-21-2004
derek giroulle <(E-Mail Removed)>
(news:40d720c1$0$28601$(E-Mail Removed)) wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> after reading up during the last weekend on the last 700 messages in
> this newsgroup and documents referred to in the FAQ and in
> signatures/responses from the more illuster memebers of this group I
> have a question .
>
> Before I would like to ask don't flame about my English I'm a native
> of another tongue , don't flame if I happend touch your particular
> deadbeaten horse, and don't repeat unuseful contributions like
> "I don't like tables" or "I don't like frames" : I don't either and
> that's why i'm here !
>
> The current state of the project can be seen at www.skimaroc.tk.
> I'm currently using tables as a formatting tool, I'm sorry about that
> and I don't want to revert to using frames.
>
> I use DreamweaverMX as my development tool, and I want a site that is
> as close to HTML / CSS (w3c-standards) as possible. My ISP doesn't
> provide
> me with PHP, ASP, or serverside-scripting facilities, (i don't know
> if i can do SSI)
>
> Scope : I need to support a website that caters for people much UNLIKE
> myself, else I would have made it entirely in English , my readers
> however don't speak English or as a matter of fact can speak one or
> two of the other languages.
>
> I have some elements I would call common : and that should envelope
> the information on the site.(say a graphic topbanner, a righthand bar
> and a footer.
> The problem is with the rest
>
> objective and contraints of the development
>
> 1- navigation
> 1.1 -I would like to make a single content file for each language such
> that I only have to maintain 1 TOC.
> 1.2 however I would like the TOC to be "context sensitive" such that I
> can show the subjects of interest to the user
> (assume he is interested in press related information) the user would
> select the press item in the menu and would be shown the menu with
> press related links on the top.
> ....


This alone calls for server-side scripting. I'm afraid there are no
alternatives. Even SSI includes you mention are hardly powerful enough for
this.
Since it seems that the page you're talking about is for a company (I only
read the post diagonally, it awfully long), a host (host != ISP, BTW) with
server-side scripting facilities should be a negligible expense.

> links to clientside scripts -Dhtml- etc that can be helpful are

appreciated

With much fuss, you could make it work half-reliably. And even if it did
work, it would be worse for spiders than frames, so it's definitely a very
bad idea to involve JS.


 
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SpaceGirl
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Posts: n/a
 
      06-21-2004
> This alone calls for server-side scripting. I'm afraid there are no
> alternatives. Even SSI includes you mention are hardly powerful enough for
> this.
> Since it seems that the page you're talking about is for a company (I only
> read the post diagonally, it awfully long), a host (host != ISP, BTW) with
> server-side scripting facilities should be a negligible expense.


Can I nit pick here?

ISP = Internet Server Provider. Hosting is a service provided on the
Internet, isn't it?


 
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Neal
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Posts: n/a
 
      06-21-2004
On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 20:08:10 +0200, Mitja <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> Since it seems that the page you're talking about is for a company (I
> only
> read the post diagonally, it awfully long), a host (host != ISP, BTW)
> with
> server-side scripting facilities should be a negligible expense.


Easily under $100 a year if you shop around. And yes, server side (like
PHP) not client-side with Javascript, as that cannot be relied upon.
 
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Andy Dingley
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Posts: n/a
 
      06-21-2004
On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 20:50:40 +0100, "SpaceGirl"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>ISP = Internet Server Provider. Hosting is a service provided on the
>Internet, isn't it?


No. By widely-established convention, the ISP is the "provider of
internet services" who connects your office location to the 'net. This
is distinct from those who offer hosting for web or email.

I own the codesmiths domain, buy my DNS and email hosting from one
vendor, webbage from several, and send outgoing SMTP via my ISP (who
also supplies the broadband connection). With SPF for email I'm now
stuffed.... 8-(

--
Smert' spamionam
 
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Nik Coughin
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Posts: n/a
 
      06-21-2004
SpaceGirl wrote:
>
>derek giroulle wrote:
>
>> (I only read the post diagonally, it awfully long), a host (host !=
>> ISP, BTW) with server-side scripting facilities should be a
>> negligible expense.

>
> Can I nit pick here?
>
> ISP = Internet Server Provider. Hosting is a service provided on the
> Internet, isn't it?


Yeah, except you've either misread Derek's post or you didn't know until now
that ! means NOT in a lot of programming languages, hence "!=" means "not
equal to", therefore Derek was saying "host is not the same thing as ISP".


 
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Neal
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-21-2004
On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 11:45:40 +1200, Nik Coughin
<nrkn!no-spam!@woosh.co.nz> wrote:

> SpaceGirl wrote:
>>
>> derek giroulle wrote:
>>
>>> (I only read the post diagonally, it awfully long), a host (host !=
>>> ISP, BTW) with server-side scripting facilities should be a
>>> negligible expense.

>>
>> Can I nit pick here?
>>
>> ISP = Internet Server Provider. Hosting is a service provided on the
>> Internet, isn't it?

>
> Yeah, except you've either misread Derek's post or you didn't know until
> now
> that ! means NOT in a lot of programming languages, hence "!=" means "not
> equal to", therefore Derek was saying "host is not the same thing as
> ISP".
>
>


Yeah, except you've either misread SpaceGirl's post or you didn't know
until now that to "nit pick" is to argue that some detail is incorrect,
therefore SpaceGirl was humorously saying "I disagree".
 
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Nik Coughin
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-22-2004
Neal wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 11:45:40 +1200, Nik Coughin
> <nrkn!no-spam!@woosh.co.nz> wrote:
>
>> SpaceGirl wrote:
>>>
>>> derek giroulle wrote:
>>>
>>>> (I only read the post diagonally, it awfully long), a host (host !=
>>>> ISP, BTW) with server-side scripting facilities should be a
>>>> negligible expense.
>>>
>>> Can I nit pick here?
>>>
>>> ISP = Internet Server Provider. Hosting is a service provided on the
>>> Internet, isn't it?

>>
>> Yeah, except you've either misread Derek's post or you didn't know
>> until now
>> that ! means NOT in a lot of programming languages, hence "!=" means
>> "not equal to", therefore Derek was saying "host is not the same
>> thing as ISP".
>>
>>

>
> Yeah, except you've either misread SpaceGirl's post or you didn't know
> until now that to "nit pick" is to argue that some detail is
> incorrect, therefore SpaceGirl was humorously saying "I disagree".


Touche.


 
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Toby A Inkster
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Posts: n/a
 
      06-22-2004
derek giroulle wrote:

> My ISP doesn't provide me with PHP, ASP, or serverside-scripting
> facilities, (i don't know if i can do SSI)


Solution is to install a web server (complete with PHP and whatever you
need) on your own machine, then use wget to grab a static version of the
website and then upload that with your favourite FTP client to your ISP's
space.

--
Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
Contact Me - http://www.goddamn.co.uk/tobyink/?page=132

 
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SpaceGirl
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Posts: n/a
 
      06-22-2004

"Nik Coughin" <nrkn!no-spam!@woosh.co.nz> wrote in message
news:AqKBc.2474$(E-Mail Removed)...
> SpaceGirl wrote:
> >
> >derek giroulle wrote:
> >
> >> (I only read the post diagonally, it awfully long), a host (host !=
> >> ISP, BTW) with server-side scripting facilities should be a
> >> negligible expense.

> >
> > Can I nit pick here?
> >
> > ISP = Internet Server Provider. Hosting is a service provided on the
> > Internet, isn't it?

>
> Yeah, except you've either misread Derek's post or you didn't know until

now
> that ! means NOT in a lot of programming languages, hence "!=" means "not
> equal to", therefore Derek was saying "host is not the same thing as ISP".


No honey, you misread my post. I said exactly what I meant I'm also a
programmer...


 
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