Dilemma in Web Design-At my wit's end! :|

Hi,

I am an entry-level web designer wondering what to do. I have *a
lot* of questions so please bear with me. I know more people have been
in my situation, snd I'm wondering how you get out of it.

I have:

Software:
DW MX
Flash
Freehand
Fireworks
Photoshop 7/ImageReady

Background:
Internet Developer diploma
Web Design certificate
Over 15 years of PC computer background
Work with transferring video from tape to web
Tutored people at my local college in HTML

I really enjoy maintaining websites by both handcoding and editor
means. I just have a very hard time finding a job in the web designing
field since I never seem to know enough.

I've tried offering to do websites for little money to try to show
what I can do, but everyone wants it for free. Sound familiar?

I just went through all the programming languages etc. that I would
need to be experienced in and am overwhelmed by what to do or where to
start. Apparently 2 years of coursework isn't enough and I feel like I
would have to go to college for the rest of my life to even increase
the chances of getting a job in this field... Then the problem of
everything outdating so fast doesn't help either.

ASP
DB
C++
HTML/DHTML
CSS
Flash
XML
Perl
PHP
CGI
Actionscript
Java
Java Server Pages

Is it technically possible for someone to actually know enough about
everything listed above to be considered adequate for a job or is it
better to specialize in a language and work from there?

How do you get anywhere in this field if no one is willing to hire
you, so you can get that experience that companies all seem to want?!?

I'm looking into getting a CIW certification. Might that help get me
somewhere?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

emlmar@hotmail.com

<>
(news:) wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am an entry-level web designer wondering what to do. I have *a
> lot* of questions so please bear with me. I know more people have been
> in my situation, snd I'm wondering how you get out of it.
>
> I have:
>
> Software:
> DW MX
> Flash
> Freehand
> Fireworks
> Photoshop 7/ImageReady
>
> Background:
> Internet Developer diploma
> Web Design certificate
> Over 15 years of PC computer background
> Work with transferring video from tape to web
> Tutored people at my local college in HTML
>
> I really enjoy maintaining websites by both handcoding and editor
> means. I just have a very hard time finding a job in the web designing
> field since I never seem to know enough.
>
> I've tried offering to do websites for little money to try to show
> what I can do, but everyone wants it for free. Sound familiar?
>
> I just went through all the programming languages etc. that I would
> need to be experienced in and am overwhelmed by what to do or where to
> start. Apparently 2 years of coursework isn't enough and I feel like I
> would have to go to college for the rest of my life to even increase
> the chances of getting a job in this field... Then the problem of
> everything outdating so fast doesn't help either.
>
> ASP
> DB

That's probably SQL you meant?

> C++

Why should you know C/C++ in order to make web pages?

> HTML/DHTML
> CSS

You already know those - at least you said so. If you're not familiar with
JS

> Flash

Some people want to have flashy sites, sure. So it doesn't hurt to be at
home with Flash, but it's far from absolutely necessary - though it may
costs you a few customers.

> XML

Why?

> Perl
> PHP

For most servers PHP and ASP should suffice. I personally favor Python (yet
another scripting language), although Perl is more widely supported.

> CGI

That's just a generic name, not any particualr language.

> Actionscript

Part of Flash.

> Java
> Java Server Pages

See above - two or three scripting languages should get you anywhere.
Doesn't hurt to know more than that, and quite a few people do, but soner or
later you've got to specialize because you can't be really fluent in every
technology there is.

>
> Is it technically possible for someone to actually know enough about
> everything listed above to be considered adequate for a job or is it
> better to specialize in a language and work from there?

Depends on what your employer wants... It's usually just a part of
everything listed above, but more knowledge makes it possible to apply for
different jobs.

> How do you get anywhere in this field if no one is willing to hire
> you, so you can get that experience that companies all seem to want?!?
>
> I'm looking into getting a CIW certification. Might that help get me
> somewhere?
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated!

<> wrote in message
news:...
> Hi,
>
> I am an entry-level web designer wondering what to do. I have *a
> lot* of questions so please bear with me. I know more people have been
> in my situation, snd I'm wondering how you get out of it.

<snip>

> Is it technically possible for someone to actually know enough about
> everything listed above to be considered adequate for a job or is it
> better to specialize in a language and work from there?
>
> How do you get anywhere in this field if no one is willing to hire
> you, so you can get that experience that companies all seem to want?!?
>
> I'm looking into getting a CIW certification. Might that help get me
> somewhere?
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated!

When it comes to a server side programming language you are probably best
off specializing in one.

As a freelance web designer you will pretty much work in HTML, CSS and the
one server side language you know... times will come up where somebody might
ask you to work in a language you don't know and if that happens then you
just either pass on the job or sell it to another designer with those skills
(sell = get referral fee)

As far as getting a job with a company and maintaining and running their
website... those jobs do exist, but are extremely rare. Nowadays most
bigger companies outsource their website's hosting and maintennance to other
companies... and the smaller companies won't have enough work to keep a
designer/webmaster on salary. The only way you'll get in there is if you
are VERY good as a server side programming language (for the most part ASP
or ASP.NET, though you will find some that use other languages)

The alternative is to hone your skills and try to hire on to a web design
company... but at this point you don't have any skills that would be in
demand. Most web design companies hire only Graphic Designers and
Programmers (Almost anybody can do HTML so there isn't any market for those
skills, which is the category you fall in to right now)

As far as getting certification... that won't really help. For the most
part the day and age of static websites that only change if you pay a
designer to update them is dying out. You need to learn some kind of server
side language and hone your skills.

That might sound overwhelming but once you learn the core syntax of a
language and a few of the more common commands (looping, IF...ELSE, reading
and writing to a database, outputting results to the browser,etc) that gives
you more than enough to go on and a place to build from

You could keep taking courses for the rest of your life but one thing they
never teach you in school is that web design is primarily a freelance work
field with limited full-time long term job opportunities - where your work
breakdown is more like 80% sales and 20% actual web design.

That might sound bleak... and if you have no sales and networking skills (or
interest in doing either) then it could be and odds are you'll end up
working at Starbucks whining and complaining all day long how the IT job
market is dead, you can't get a job, outsourcing to India, how you wasted
money on an education, etc

But it doesn't have to be bad:

First, don't sell your skills short. Sure people love free stuff and if you
offer to do websites for free you might get a few jobs but it doesn't pay
the bills. If you spend all your time doing freebies then you won't have any
time to find paying work.

Second, when you do get a job don't let anything slip through your fingers
that you can make money off of. If you go out and build 50 websites and
made $1000 each then you have $50,000... a good chunk of money but once its
gone then its gone. Instead look into hosting where you can bill them
$10-20 per month hosting (50 sites at $20 per month and you are now making
$1000 a month in regular income). Start off as a reseller and work your way
up... when you get enough sites you look in to colocating your own server
and then if you keep expanding you can look into becoming your own host some
day.

Third, when you do get a client try to turn them in to a networking contact.
If they like your work they'll probably reccomend you to others if they are
asked, but if you give them an incentive to promote your service then they
might go out and reccomend you to others on their own.
Typically what you might want to do is offer them a 20% referral fee on any
jobs they send your way (20% sounds like too much? Would you rather have 0
jobs where you make 100% of the income? or even 1 job where you make only
80%?). When the job is done leave them a couple of brochures and business
cards (stuff they can leave on their counter)... write some kind of code on
the back and tell them that anybody who takes a flyer or card you'll ask if
there is a code on the back and if it matches theirs you'll give him the 20%
commission

Finally (there is more I could cover but this is my "finally"... I have to
tend to my company here for a few things), if you have some skills but lack
others then you might try to find other designers/developers/programmers in
your area and team up with them. This is how alot of web design companies
are formed... a couple of people (2 to 3 of them) join up to pool their
skills and resources and look for work together. If you have a couple of
people you can spend down time brainstorming up new ideas of sites to sell
and ways to promote your company...
Incidently this is how my company got started... I had a few jobs now
and then, but thigns didn't get really rolling until I teamed up with a guy
who was a whiz at graphics and pretty good at sales

wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am an entry-level web designer wondering what to do. I have *a
> lot* of questions so please bear with me. I know more people have been
> in my situation, snd I'm wondering how you get out of it.
>
> I have:
>
> Software:
> DW MX
> Flash
> Freehand
> Fireworks
> Photoshop 7/ImageReady

you know flash? your best bet (to get into the money, not to get into making
a /good/ site) is you could work for a graphic *design* company (as opposed
to a *web* design company).

You'll find that 9 out of 10 school leavers want to get into 'making web
sites'. You have a very big competition before you even start.

Every day I get people come to me showing me the things they have done, all
*believing* that they are the 'super web developer dude', and wanting a job.

My suggestion: keep your web design interests always fresh. Experiment on
things for yourself. You will find that you will build up a portfolio doing
this. If you are really good at your sql, and perhaps even have some
experience in something like sybase or oracle, then try to get a job in a
firm that will nurture your endevours - eg. a financial institution with a
big r&d budget.

Have you seen The Sound of Music? See it if you haven't.

And learn UNIFACE. It is soon going to be extremely popular for web browser
based applications in the corporate world.

"Disco Octopus" <> wrote in message
news:VMvqc.2153$...
> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I am an entry-level web designer wondering what to do. I have *a
> > lot* of questions so please bear with me. I know more people have been
> > in my situation, snd I'm wondering how you get out of it.
> >
> > I have:
> >
> > Software:
> > DW MX
> > Flash
> > Freehand
> > Fireworks
> > Photoshop 7/ImageReady
>
> you know flash? your best bet (to get into the money, not to get into
making
> a /good/ site) is you could work for a graphic *design* company (as
opposed
> to a *web* design company).
>
> You'll find that 9 out of 10 school leavers want to get into 'making web
> sites'. You have a very big competition before you even start.
>
> Every day I get people come to me showing me the things they have done,
all
> *believing* that they are the 'super web developer dude', and wanting a
job.
>
> My suggestion: keep your web design interests always fresh. Experiment on
> things for yourself. You will find that you will build up a portfolio
doing
> this. If you are really good at your sql, and perhaps even have some
> experience in something like sybase or oracle, then try to get a job in a
> firm that will nurture your endevours - eg. a financial institution with a
> big r&d budget.
>
> Have you seen The Sound of Music? See it if you haven't.
>
> And learn UNIFACE. It is soon going to be extremely popular for web
browser
> based applications in the corporate world.
>
Are you talking about this?
http://www.compuware.com/products/uniface/default.htm

Why learn that? Learn J2EE. It does all that and more, and it's free.

On Tue, 18 May 2004 22:05:41 GMT, Disco Octopus
<> declared in alt.html:

> Have you seen The Sound of Music? See it if you haven't.

I haven't, but what on earth does it have to do with getting a job in
web design?? IIRC, it was made (and set) somewhat before HTML ever came
about.

(Always promised myself that I wouldn't watch it, but I'm curious
now...)

--
Mark Parnell
http://www.clarkecomputers.com.au

Mark Parnell wrote:

> On Tue, 18 May 2004 22:05:41 GMT, Disco Octopus
> <> declared in alt.html:
>
>> Have you seen The Sound of Music? See it if you haven't.
>
> I haven't, but what on earth does it have to do with getting a job in
> web design?? IIRC, it was made (and set) somewhat before HTML ever came
> about.

It was very forward-thinking.

--
Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
Contact Me - http://www.goddamn.co.uk/tobyink/?page=132

emlmar wrote:

> ASP, DB, C++, HTML/DHTML, CSS, Flash, XML, Perl, PHP, CGI, Actionscript,
> Java, Java Server Pages
>
> Is it technically possible for someone to actually know enough about
> everything listed above to be considered adequate for a job or is it
> better to specialize in a language and work from there?

Yes, but I don't think you'd really want to.

ASP, JSP, PHP, CGI/Perl and CGI/C++ are competing methods of server-side
scripting, so you're probably fine to just learn one of them to start off
with. Go with PHP because it's probably the most widely supported. Using
C++ for server-side scripting is not done very commonly, but if you can
get it going will stand you in very good stead -- it's very efficient
compared with any of the others. As others have said, CGI is not a
language itself but a concept that can be used in conjunction with other
languages, such as Perl, Python and C. This concept can be learned in
a matter of minutes.

DB (I assume you mean databases in general, in which case an understanding
of SQL is required as well as basic administration of one or two SQL
servers such as MySQL, PostgreSQL, MS SQL or Access) is more or less a
must for any vaguely complex site.

Actionscript is a subset of Flash. Don't bother with either for now.

DHTML is just a buzzword and one that hasn't been popular since 1998. It
is an umbrella for HTML, CSS and Javascript, all three of which I would
say are vital to know. HTML: you should know like the back of your hand.
Learn every nook and cranny of thr HTML 4.01 Strict spec. CSS: you should
know most of. Concentrate on CSS 2.1. javascript: you should understand
the principles well, even if you have to look up the syntax for the
occasional function from time to time.

--
Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
Contact Me - http://www.goddamn.co.uk/tobyink/?page=132

On Tue, 18 May 2004 22:30:23 +0200, "Mitja" <> wrote:

> <>
>(news:) wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am an entry-level web designer wondering what to do. I have *a
>> lot* of questions so please bear with me. I know more people have been
>> in my situation, snd I'm wondering how you get out of it.
>>
>> I have:
>>
>> Software:
>> DW MX
>> Flash
>> Freehand
>> Fireworks
>> Photoshop 7/ImageReady
>>
>> Background:
>> Internet Developer diploma
>> Web Design certificate
>> Over 15 years of PC computer background
>> Work with transferring video from tape to web
>> Tutored people at my local college in HTML
>>
>> I really enjoy maintaining websites by both handcoding and editor
>> means. I just have a very hard time finding a job in the web designing
>> field since I never seem to know enough.
>>
>> I've tried offering to do websites for little money to try to show
>> what I can do, but everyone wants it for free. Sound familiar?
>>
>> I just went through all the programming languages etc. that I would
>> need to be experienced in and am overwhelmed by what to do or where to
>> start. Apparently 2 years of coursework isn't enough and I feel like I
>> would have to go to college for the rest of my life to even increase
>> the chances of getting a job in this field... Then the problem of
>> everything outdating so fast doesn't help either.
>>
>> ASP
>> DB
>
>That's probably SQL you meant?
>
>> C++
>
>Why should you know C/C++ in order to make web pages?
>
>> HTML/DHTML
>> CSS
>
>You already know those - at least you said so. If you're not familiar with
>JS
>
>> Flash
>
>Some people want to have flashy sites, sure. So it doesn't hurt to be at
>home with Flash, but it's far from absolutely necessary - though it may
>costs you a few customers.

There's alwyas Swish, Coffeecup Firestarter and Bannermaker.

>> XML
>
>Why?

No, I tend to agree with this to a degree.

>> Perl
>> PHP
>
>For most servers PHP and ASP should suffice. I personally favor Python (yet
>another scripting language), although Perl is more widely supported.

Pythin's probably better. Let's face it though, many people hang out
their shingle as designers then outsource development work, Flash
grahics etc.

BB

>> CGI
>
>That's just a generic name, not any particualr language.
>
>> Actionscript
>
>Part of Flash.
>
>> Java
>> Java Server Pages
>
>See above - two or three scripting languages should get you anywhere.
>Doesn't hurt to know more than that, and quite a few people do, but soner or
>later you've got to specialize because you can't be really fluent in every
>technology there is.
>
>>
>> Is it technically possible for someone to actually know enough about
>> everything listed above to be considered adequate for a job or is it
>> better to specialize in a language and work from there?
>
>Depends on what your employer wants... It's usually just a part of
>everything listed above, but more knowledge makes it possible to apply for
>different jobs.
>
>> How do you get anywhere in this field if no one is willing to hire
>> you, so you can get that experience that companies all seem to want?!?
>>
>> I'm looking into getting a CIW certification. Might that help get me
>> somewhere?
>>
>> Any help would be greatly appreciated!
>

In article <>,
says...
> Actionscript is a subset of Flash. Don't bother with either for now.

What the hell does "subset of flash"? That makes no sense at all.
Actionscript is it's own language similar in syntax to Javascript.
--
Whitecrest Entertainment
www.whitecrestent.com