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Definition Lists

 
 
Luigi Donatello Asero
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      04-03-2004

"Jim Roberts" <(E-Mail Removed)> skrev i meddelandet
news:c4n8ff$2kt9rr$(E-Mail Removed)-berlin.de...
>
> "Luigi Donatello Asero" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news4Fbc.55073$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > It's all just a matter of taste, so do it as you wish.
> > > I personally wouldn't use a definition list, since I don't think the

> list
> > of
> > > furniture really defines the room as a term.

> > Not a room but a sleeping room, for example. A sleeping room usually has
> > beds, for example and a kitchen usually does not have them although both

> are
> > rooms!
> >
> > . In a way, the room as such _is_ defined by what it contains.
> > That is what I mean (see above)
> >
> > --
> > Luigi ( un italiano che vive in Svezia)
> > http://www.italymap.dk
> > http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/sicilien.html
> >

> If you were going to use a definition list anyway, why bother posting your
> original question? Personally I don't care whether you do or not. You
> obviously are going to do it anyway. Why argue?
>
> regards,
> Jim


What I do also depends
on the answers I get. I cannot know before whether I get answer which
are convincing or not.
In this case, I assume that those belonging to www.w3.org also
publish the rules about
HTML. Therefore I also assume that they are consistent with the rules they
make and
I try to understand what they mean when they make an example.
I try to understand the rule by the examples and not first to interpret the
rule and later check it up whether the examples are consistent with the
rules
as they must know what they mean when they themselves have made the rules.
So, what Jukka wrote "They define <dl> as a definition list, then use it
in foolish ways and
> say that it's OK." sounds a bit strange to me.


Best regards
Luigi






 
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Luigi Donatello Asero
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Posts: n/a
 
      04-03-2004

"Luigi Donatello Asero" <(E-Mail Removed)> skrev i meddelandet
news:AOFbc.55077$(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> "Jim Roberts" <(E-Mail Removed)> skrev i meddelandet
> news:c4n8ff$2kt9rr$(E-Mail Removed)-berlin.de...
> >
> > "Luigi Donatello Asero" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > news4Fbc.55073$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > > It's all just a matter of taste, so do it as you wish.
> > > > I personally wouldn't use a definition list, since I don't think the

> > list
> > > of
> > > > furniture really defines the room as a term.
> > > Not a room but a sleeping room, for example. A sleeping room usually

has
> > > beds, for example and a kitchen usually does not have them although

both
> > are
> > > rooms!
> > >
> > > . In a way, the room as such _is_ defined by what it contains.
> > > That is what I mean (see above)
> > >
> > > --
> > > Luigi ( un italiano che vive in Svezia)
> > > http://www.italymap.dk
> > > http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/sicilien.html
> > >

> > If you were going to use a definition list anyway, why bother posting

your
> > original question? Personally I don't care whether you do or not. You
> > obviously are going to do it anyway. Why argue?
> >
> > regards,
> > Jim

>
> What I do also depends
> on the answers I get. I cannot know before whether I get answer which
> are convincing or not.
> In this case, I assume that those belonging to www.w3.org also
> publish the rules about
> HTML. Therefore I also assume that they are consistent with the rules they
> make and
> I try to understand what they mean when they make an example.
> I try to understand the rule by the examples and not first to interpret

the
> rule and later check it up whether the examples are consistent with the
> rules
> as they must know what they mean when they themselves have made the rules.
> So, what Jukka wrote "They define <dl> as a definition list, then use it
> in foolish ways and
> > say that it's OK." sounds a bit strange to me.

>
> Best regards
> Luigi


So, what I mean is that a way to interpret HTML rules which is convincing
must be consistent with the examples which www.w3.org has already made.
If, on the other hand, www.w3.org should be of the opinion that the
examples, which they have made themselves, are not appropriate, they would
probably change them, wouldnīt they?
--
Luigi ( un italiano che vive in Svezia)
http://www.italymap.dk
http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/sicilien.html




 
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Jukka K. Korpela
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      04-03-2004
"Luigi Donatello Asero" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> Who are they? Those belonging to www.w3.org who also publish the
> rules about HTML?


Exactly. Just because they violate their own rules doesn't mean you
should do the same.

--
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
Pages about Web authoring: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/www.html


 
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Jim Roberts
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      04-03-2004

"Jukka K. Korpela" wrote:

> "Luigi Donatello Asero" wrote:
>
> > Who are they? Those belonging to www.w3.org who also publish the
> > rules about HTML?

>
> Exactly. Just because they violate their own rules doesn't mean you
> should do the same.
>


lol. Do what we say, not as we do...

Regards,
Jim


 
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Luigi Donatello Asero
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      04-03-2004

"Jim Roberts" <(E-Mail Removed)> skrev i meddelandet
news:c4neco$2kp4qq$(E-Mail Removed)-berlin.de...
>
> "Jukka K. Korpela" wrote:
>
> > "Luigi Donatello Asero" wrote:
> >
> > > Who are they? Those belonging to www.w3.org who also publish the
> > > rules about HTML?

> >
> > Exactly. Just because they violate their own rules doesn't mean you
> > should do the same.


Donīt you think that they should know better than others how the rules
should be interpreted?
I would rather suggest that the do not violate any rules: on the contrary,
they try to help users to understand what they mean by their rules!

--
Luigi ( un italiano che vive in Svezia)
http://www.italymap.dk
http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/sicilien.html




 
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Jukka K. Korpela
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      04-04-2004
"Luigi Donatello Asero" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> I would rather suggest that the do not violate any rules: on the
> contrary, they try to help users to understand what they mean by
> their rules!


So you mean that, for example, when a specific definition is followed by
an example that violates the definition, the definition should be read as
saying something quite different from what it actually says?

You cannot really harmonize the specifications. The W3C specifications
contradict each other, and official standards and protocols, and even
themselves internally. Not very often, but they do. As long as they don't
fix their contradictions, it's the reader's responsibility to make an
intelligent interpretation.

And surely something presented as a _definition_ trumps something
presented as a note, or merely as an example.

--
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
Pages about Web authoring: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/www.html


 
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Luigi Donatello Asero
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      04-04-2004

"Jukka K. Korpela" <(E-Mail Removed)> skrev i meddelandet
news:Xns94C19184224E6jkorpelacstutfi@193.229.0.31. ..
> "Luigi Donatello Asero" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> > I would rather suggest that the do not violate any rules: on the
> > contrary, they try to help users to understand what they mean by
> > their rules!

>
> So you mean that, for example, when a specific definition is followed by
> an example that violates the definition, the definition should be read as
> saying something quite different from what it actually says?



According to me the example is no violation of the definition. It only helps
to understand the definition better.
Your opinion is clearly different on this subject.

--
Luigi ( un italiano che vive in Svezia)
http://www.italymap.dk
http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/sicilien.html





 
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Andrew Urquhart
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      04-04-2004
Robert Frost-Bridges wrote:
> http://brightonfixedodds.net/sitemap.php.
> I assume it should be re-written as an unordered list?


Looks like it to me as the only data relationship between the <dt> and
<dd>s is the tree hierarchy and an ordered list would do that more
cleanly.

This thread has me wondering now whether my own <dl> sitemap is as
semantic as I thought it was: http://www.andrewu.co.uk/about/sitemap/ ?
--
Andrew Urquhart
- Reply: www.andrewu.co.uk/contact/


 
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Robert Frost-Bridges
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      04-04-2004
On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 22:24:29 +0000, Jukka K. Korpela wrote:

> Exactly. Just because they violate their own rules doesn't mean you
> should do the same.


I did though I'm afraid, I'm sure you recognise this:
http://brightonfixedodds.net/sitemap.php.
I assume it should be re-written as an unordered list?

--
frostie
http://brightonfixedodds.net
 
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Luigi Donatello Asero
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      04-05-2004

"Andrew Urquhart" <(E-Mail Removed)> skrev i meddelandet
news:5N%bc.886$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Robert Frost-Bridges wrote:
> > http://brightonfixedodds.net/sitemap.php.
> > I assume it should be re-written as an unordered list?

>
> Looks like it to me as the only data relationship between the <dt> and
> <dd>s is the tree hierarchy and an ordered list would do that more
> cleanly.
>
> This thread has me wondering now whether my own <dl> sitemap is as
> semantic as I thought it was: http://www.andrewu.co.uk/about/sitemap/ ?


I am not sure whether I understand what you mean by "semantic" in this
context but I would say that the use of a definition list sounds appropriate
to me on the page which you mentioned and consistent with the example which
is made by w3.org
Best regards
--
Luigi ( un italiano che vive in Svezia)
http://www.italymap.dk
http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/...inredning.html










 
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