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Frames and search engines

 
 
Martin Johansen
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      03-02-2004
Hello.

I have a website which uses frames.

The window is splitt in two, with a menu on lefthand side and a contents
page on the right.

If a person accesses my website from a search engine search, they reach the
content page, but they do not see the manu. This is bacause the index.htm is
the page containing the frame info.

How can I solve this in HTML?

Thanks.


 
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Andreas Prilop
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      03-02-2004
"Martin Johansen" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> If a person accesses my website from a search engine search, they reach the
> content page, but they do not see the manu. This is bacause the index.htm is
> the page containing the frame info.
>
> How can I solve this in HTML?


Get rid of frames.

--
Top-posting.
What's the most irritating thing on Usenet?
 
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David Dorward
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      03-02-2004
Martin Johansen wrote:

> I have a website which uses frames.


Oh dear

> The window is splitt in two, with a menu on lefthand side and a contents
> page on the right.


Sometimes frames are a good tool. Using them for navigation on a website is
not one of those times.

> If a person accesses my website from a search engine search, they reach
> the content page, but they do not see the manu.


Yes, this is because you have content on the content page. Search engines
index content.

> How can I solve this in HTML?


Best solution - get rid of the frames.

Poor solution - use robots.txt to keep search engines away from your content
pages. Create a new frameset document for every combination of page views.
Put good noframes content in every frameset document. Link (with
target="_top") only to frameset documents.

--
David Dorward <http://dorward.me.uk/>
 
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Steve R.
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      03-02-2004
Martin Johansen wrote in message ...
> How can I solve this in HTML?


It's easy to solve Martin. Just copy and paste (via notepad) the code
below. Place it between </title> and </head> on your main page and also on
your menu page, in case the menu page also gets picked up on its own by a
search engine.

<script language="JavaScript">
if (parent.location.href == self.location.href){
window.location.href = 'index.htm'
}
</script>


 
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Steve Pugh
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      03-02-2004
"Steve R." <stevie_ritchie(NOSPAM)@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Martin Johansen wrote in message ...
>> How can I solve this in HTML?

>
>It's easy to solve Martin. Just copy and paste (via notepad) the code
>below. Place it between </title> and </head> on your main page and also on
>your menu page, in case the menu page also gets picked up on its own by a
>search engine.
>
><script language="JavaScript">


Quaint, HTML 3.2

>if (parent.location.href == self.location.href){
>window.location.href = 'index.htm'
>}
></script>


So that loads the index page, and not the page the user was searching
for? (Assuming that the site actually consists of more than one page).
Not very friendly. If you're going to suggest this sort of thing at
least suggest that the frameset be dynamically generated with the
correct pages loaded.

Steve

--
"My theories appal you, my heresies outrage you,
I never answer letters and you don't like my tie." - The Doctor

Steve Pugh <(E-Mail Removed)> <http://steve.pugh.net/>
 
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Mark Parnell
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      03-02-2004
On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 21:07:12 GMT, "Steve R."
<stevie_ritchie(NOSPAM)@hotmail.com> declared in alt.html:

> <script language="JavaScript">
> if (parent.location.href == self.location.href){
> window.location.href = 'index.htm'
> }
> </script>


1) This won't work for those with Javascript disabled/unavailable.
2) Even if it does work, they will be redirected to the home page, not
the page they found in the search engine. Most will then just go back
and try the next result.

As others have said, getting rid of the frames is by far the best
solution.

http://html-faq.com/htmlframes/?framesareevil
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/l_vajzo...eb/frames.html
http://dorward.me.uk/www/frames/
http://www.google.com/webmasters/2.html (see under "Your page uses
frames")

--
Mark Parnell
http://www.clarkecomputers.com.au
 
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Eric Bohlman
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      03-02-2004
"Martin Johansen" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
news:Vj61c.7929$(E-Mail Removed):

> Hello.
>
> I have a website which uses frames.
>
> The window is splitt in two, with a menu on lefthand side and a
> contents page on the right.
>
> If a person accesses my website from a search engine search, they
> reach the content page, but they do not see the manu. This is bacause
> the index.htm is the page containing the frame info.
>
> How can I solve this in HTML?


In HTML, you solve it by simply not using frames. This kind of two-column
layout is very easily achieved in HTML with CSS, giving you a single
document. If your menu is so heavy that including it in the source for
each page causes bandwidth or storage problems, it's probably to big to be
usable anyway. If you're main concern is that changes to the menu not have
to be made in more than one place, use server-side includes, server-side
scripting, or preprocessing.

If, after all this, you really *must* (not just want to) use frames, then
you'll need server-side scripting ability. What you'll need to do is write
a little script (I'll assume PHP here and call it framegen.php) that spits
out a frameset in which the src attribute of the right <frame> is set to
the PATH_INFO passed to the script. Then in your menu page, you'd replace
any link like <a href="mydomain.com/mypage.html" target="rightframe"> with
<a href="mydomain.com/framegen.php/mydomain.com/mypage.html" target="_top">
(you could have the script do the job of inserting the domain name into the
generated content so you could write
"mydomain.com/framegen.php/mypage.html" instead). Now all the links will
point to new framesets that contain the menu frame and the appropriate
content frame, and search engines will index based on the new urls.
 
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Steve R.
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      03-03-2004
Eric Bohlman wrote in message ...
> If, after all this, you really *must* (not just want to) use frames, then
> you'll need server-side scripting ability.


If you are a relative newbie and don't understand what Eric means, you can
simply use the <script> code I gave in my previous post. It does work :~)

The number of people disabling javascript in *reality* is negligible. It's
only the purists on the HTML groups who do things like that :~(

There are so many websites using javascript nowadays it would be futile to
disable it for any other reason than testing purposes.


 
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Kris
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      03-03-2004
In article <Tdh1c.7352$(E-Mail Removed)>,
"Steve R." <stevie_ritchie(NOSPAM)@hotmail.com> wrote:

> The number of people disabling javascript in *reality* is negligible. It's
> only the purists on the HTML groups who do things like that :~(


Lesson of today: Google is a purist.

--
Kris
<(E-Mail Removed)> (nl)
<http://www.cinnamon.nl/>
 
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Eric Bohlman
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      03-03-2004
"Steve R." <stevie_ritchie(NOSPAM)@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:Tdh1c.7352$(E-Mail Removed):

> Eric Bohlman wrote in message ...
>> If, after all this, you really *must* (not just want to) use frames,
>> then you'll need server-side scripting ability.

>
> If you are a relative newbie and don't understand what Eric means, you
> can simply use the <script> code I gave in my previous post. It does
> work :~)
>
> The number of people disabling javascript in *reality* is negligible.
> It's only the purists on the HTML groups who do things like that :~(
>
> There are so many websites using javascript nowadays it would be
> futile to disable it for any other reason than testing purposes.


But for people *with* Javascript enabled, it simply sends them to the
site's homepage (or the initial configuration of the frameset), *not* the
page that contains the information that the user was searching for. The
user now has to figure out where in the site the information he was looking
for really is. Or he might conclude that your site was "spamdexing,"
trying to make itself come up as the result of searches for information
unrelated to the site itself. Or he might conclude that the page he found
during the search was obsolete and had been removed. In all these cases,
the user is likely to hit the back button and go to the next promising
search result.

It is simply a *major* usability gaffe for a site to redirect a link from a
search engine results page to a page that doesn't contain what the user was
searching for and doesn't match the excerpt displayed by the search engine.
Users get *really* ****ed off when that happens.
 
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