HTML - Bizarre display behavior with "+" and "-" signs in IE 6.0 only

01-07-2004, 12:38 AM

Hi,

I'm getting very strange behavior when trying to display HTML that contains
plus and minus signs in a certain sequence. The issue has to do with a plus
sign followed by alphanumeric characters followed by a minus sign (with no
spaces in-between). It's easier to show than explain. Could someone try
copying the following 3 samples and tell me what IE displays for you in each
case? I'm using IE 6.0 SP1.

(1)
<html>
<body>
+8-
</body>
</html>
(displays nothing)

(2)
<html>
<body>
a+a-t
</body>
</html>
(displays "at")

(3)
<html>
<body>
8+947asdf7987fdsfd-9
</body>
</html>
(displays "8??????9")

Note that the alphanumeric characters used in each sample are random; if I
use other characters, I still get the strange behavior. I've rebooted and
also tried on another machine (also running IE 6.0 SP1).

Can anyone shed light on this perplexing behavior?

Thanks,
Jay

Jay

01-07-2004, 12:45 AM

> (displays "8??????9")

Hopefully, this'll display correctly if I post in HTML format. Your newsreader may display it, but the question marks should be boxes:
(displays "8ïžŽíª±íŸ»ïŸŽí½¶ìŸ9")

01-07-2004, 01:20 AM

"Jay" <> wrote in message
news:3ffb5b16$0$32589$ m...
> Hi,
>
> I'm getting very strange behavior when trying to display HTML that
contains
> plus and minus signs in a certain sequence. The issue has to do with a
plus
> sign followed by alphanumeric characters followed by a minus sign (with no
> spaces in-between). It's easier to show than explain. Could someone try
> copying the following 3 samples and tell me what IE displays for you in
each
> case? I'm using IE 6.0 SP1.
>
> (1)
> <html>
> <body>
> +8-
> </body>
> </html>
> (displays nothing)
>
> (2)
> <html>
> <body>
> a+a-t
> </body>
> </html>
> (displays "at")
>
> (3)
> <html>
> <body>
> 8+947asdf7987fdsfd-9
> </body>
> </html>
> (displays "8??????9")
>
> Note that the alphanumeric characters used in each sample are random; if I
> use other characters, I still get the strange behavior. I've rebooted and
> also tried on another machine (also running IE 6.0 SP1).
>
> Can anyone shed light on this perplexing behavior?
>
> Thanks,
> Jay
>

It has something to do with the browser's automatic selection of encoding.
Try right-clicking on the displayed errors and select one of the appropriate
encoding options and watch what happens. Turn off automatic selection and it
is changes too. Don't really have a clue as to why it is acting this way
unless the characters you chose are considered special by the selection
process but that seems to be too dumb to be believed, even for MS.
--
John McGaw
[Knoxville, TN, USA]

Return address will not work. Please
reply in group or through my website:
http://johnmcgaw.com

01-07-2004, 05:29 AM

"John McGaw" <> wrote in message
news:15JKb.259$...
>
> It has something to do with the browser's automatic selection of encoding.
> Try right-clicking on the displayed errors and select one of the
appropriate
> encoding options and watch what happens. Turn off automatic selection and
it
> is changes too. Don't really have a clue as to why it is acting this way
> unless the characters you chose are considered special by the selection
> process but that seems to be too dumb to be believed, even for MS.

Thanks for demystifying this, John. What's odd is that it displays correctly
with every other endoding option *except* the default (UTF-7). What's even
more bizarre is that I started off troubleshooting the JavaScript for the
page in question because I was getting various JavaScript errors. When I
realized there was absolutely nothing wrong with the JavaScript, I
eventually whittled down a rather large page to that one character
combination. So in addition to the problem of the characters just not
showing up, they were causing JS errors. Something clearly ain't workin'
right!

Thanks for your help John,
Jay

01-07-2004, 05:44 AM

On Tue, 6 Jan 2004 21:29:31 -0800, Jay declared in alt.html:
>
> Thanks for demystifying this, John. What's odd is that it displays correctly
> with every other endoding option *except* the default (UTF-7).

Why are you using UTF-7 on a web page?

From http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2152.html :

Also as a special case, the sequence "+-" may be used to encode the
character "+". A "+" character followed immediately by any character
other than members of set B or "-" is an ill-formed sequence.

--
Mark Parnell
http://www.clarkecomputers.com.au

01-07-2004, 08:22 AM

"Mark Parnell" <> wrote in message
news:65vmxlv0y8tr$.xg7ey4mf6x8y$....
>
> Why are you using UTF-7 on a web page?

I'm not. As I said, it was the default setting. I don't know how it got that
way cuz I sure didn't change it; I never modify the encoding option when
browsing, so maybe I had browsed to a page set to UTF-7 immediately before
encountering this issue.

> From http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2152.html :
>
> Also as a special case, the sequence "+-" may be used to encode the
> character "+". A "+" character followed immediately by any character
> other than members of set B or "-" is an ill-formed sequence.

Thanks for the info.

Jay

01-07-2004, 12:08 PM

"Jay" <> wrote in message
news:3ffb5ca0$0$32586$ m...
> (displays "8??????9")

Hopefully, this'll display correctly if I post in HTML format. Your
newsreader may display it, but the question marks should be boxes:
(displays "8??????9")

PLEASE do not post in HTML!

01-07-2004, 12:29 PM

"Jay" <> wrote:

>> Why are you using UTF-7 on a web page?
>
> I'm not. As I said, it was the default setting. I don't know how it
> got that way cuz I sure didn't change it; I never modify the
> encoding option when browsing, so maybe I had browsed to a page set
> to UTF-7 immediately before encountering this issue.

Quite probably so. But then the problem was, in part, caused by the
test page you viewed - or, rather, by the lack of charset specification
in its HTTP headers, or even a simulation thereof in a <meta> tag.

When you view a page that has no encoding information, browsers tend to
imply the last encoding used, carrying it over from the previous page.
This may cause great confusion.

--
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
Pages about Web authoring: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/www.html

01-08-2004, 12:21 AM

"Jukka K. Korpela" <> wrote in message
news:Xns9469933857A02jkorpelacstutfi@193.229.0.31. ..
>
> Quite probably so. But then the problem was, in part, caused by the
> test page you viewed - or, rather, by the lack of charset specification
> in its HTTP headers, or even a simulation thereof in a <meta> tag.

Yes. This was a test page whose meta tags hadn't yet been set. Because I was
getting JavaScript errors, naturally the JS code was the first place I
looked, and I was getting JS errors as long as the +...- character combo was
on the page (not sure why it affected the totally unrelated JS, though) --
never occurred to me that encoding was the problem. Anyway, it's sorted,
thanks.

01-08-2004, 12:28 AM

"rf" <> wrote in message
news:4FSKb.81881$...
>
> PLEASE do not post in HTML!

If you read what I posted, you saw that it was the only way to show what was
being displayed in my browser, which was the point; I didn't use HTML in my
other posts, did I? Clinging to some "no HMTL posting under any
circumstances" credo is, at best, impractical and, at worst, pedantically
purist.

01-07-2004, 12:45 AM	#2
Jay Posts: n/a	Re: Bizarre display behavior with "+" and "-" signs in IE 6.0 only > (displays "8??????9") Hopefully, this'll display correctly if I post in HTML format. Your newsreader may display it, but the question marks should be boxes: (displays "8ïžŽíª±íŸ»ïŸŽí½¶ìŸ9")

01-07-2004, 01:20 AM	#3
John McGaw Posts: n/a	Re: Bizarre display behavior with "+" and "-" signs in IE 6.0 only "Jay" <> wrote in message news:3ffb5b16$0$32589$ m... > Hi, > > I'm getting very strange behavior when trying to display HTML that contains > plus and minus signs in a certain sequence. The issue has to do with a plus > sign followed by alphanumeric characters followed by a minus sign (with no > spaces in-between). It's easier to show than explain. Could someone try > copying the following 3 samples and tell me what IE displays for you in each > case? I'm using IE 6.0 SP1. > > (1) > <html> > <body> > +8- > </body> > </html> > (displays nothing) > > (2) > <html> > <body> > a+a-t > </body> > </html> > (displays "at") > > (3) > <html> > <body> > 8+947asdf7987fdsfd-9 > </body> > </html> > (displays "8??????9") > > Note that the alphanumeric characters used in each sample are random; if I > use other characters, I still get the strange behavior. I've rebooted and > also tried on another machine (also running IE 6.0 SP1). > > Can anyone shed light on this perplexing behavior? > > Thanks, > Jay > It has something to do with the browser's automatic selection of encoding. Try right-clicking on the displayed errors and select one of the appropriate encoding options and watch what happens. Turn off automatic selection and it is changes too. Don't really have a clue as to why it is acting this way unless the characters you chose are considered special by the selection process but that seems to be too dumb to be believed, even for MS. -- John McGaw [Knoxville, TN, USA] Return address will not work. Please reply in group or through my website: http://johnmcgaw.com

01-07-2004, 05:29 AM	#4
Jay Posts: n/a	Re: Bizarre display behavior with "+" and "-" signs in IE 6.0 only "John McGaw" <> wrote in message news:15JKb.259$... > > It has something to do with the browser's automatic selection of encoding. > Try right-clicking on the displayed errors and select one of the appropriate > encoding options and watch what happens. Turn off automatic selection and it > is changes too. Don't really have a clue as to why it is acting this way > unless the characters you chose are considered special by the selection > process but that seems to be too dumb to be believed, even for MS. Thanks for demystifying this, John. What's odd is that it displays correctly with every other endoding option except the default (UTF-7). What's even more bizarre is that I started off troubleshooting the JavaScript for the page in question because I was getting various JavaScript errors. When I realized there was absolutely nothing wrong with the JavaScript, I eventually whittled down a rather large page to that one character combination. So in addition to the problem of the characters just not showing up, they were causing JS errors. Something clearly ain't workin' right! Thanks for your help John, Jay

01-07-2004, 05:44 AM	#5
Mark Parnell Posts: n/a	Re: Bizarre display behavior with "+" and "-" signs in IE 6.0 only On Tue, 6 Jan 2004 21:29:31 -0800, Jay declared in alt.html: > > Thanks for demystifying this, John. What's odd is that it displays correctly > with every other endoding option except the default (UTF-7). Why are you using UTF-7 on a web page? From http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2152.html : Also as a special case, the sequence "+-" may be used to encode the character "+". A "+" character followed immediately by any character other than members of set B or "-" is an ill-formed sequence. -- Mark Parnell http://www.clarkecomputers.com.au

01-07-2004, 08:22 AM	#6
Jay Posts: n/a	Re: Bizarre display behavior with "+" and "-" signs in IE 6.0 only "Mark Parnell" <> wrote in message news:65vmxlv0y8tr$.xg7ey4mf6x8y$.... > > Why are you using UTF-7 on a web page? I'm not. As I said, it was the default setting. I don't know how it got that way cuz I sure didn't change it; I never modify the encoding option when browsing, so maybe I had browsed to a page set to UTF-7 immediately before encountering this issue. > From http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2152.html : > > Also as a special case, the sequence "+-" may be used to encode the > character "+". A "+" character followed immediately by any character > other than members of set B or "-" is an ill-formed sequence. Thanks for the info. Jay

01-07-2004, 12:38 AM	#1
	Bizarre display behavior with "+" and "-" signs in IE 6.0 only Hi, I'm getting very strange behavior when trying to display HTML that contains plus and minus signs in a certain sequence. The issue has to do with a plus sign followed by alphanumeric characters followed by a minus sign (with no spaces in-between). It's easier to show than explain. Could someone try copying the following 3 samples and tell me what IE displays for you in each case? I'm using IE 6.0 SP1. (1) <html> <body> +8- </body> </html> (displays nothing) (2) <html> <body> a+a-t </body> </html> (displays "at") (3) <html> <body> 8+947asdf7987fdsfd-9 </body> </html> (displays "8??????9") Note that the alphanumeric characters used in each sample are random; if I use other characters, I still get the strange behavior. I've rebooted and also tried on another machine (also running IE 6.0 SP1). Can anyone shed light on this perplexing behavior? Thanks, Jay Jay

01-07-2004, 12:08 PM	#7
rf Posts: n/a	Re: Bizarre display behavior with "+" and "-" signs in IE 6.0 only "Jay" <> wrote in message news:3ffb5ca0$0$32586$ m... > (displays "8??????9") Hopefully, this'll display correctly if I post in HTML format. Your newsreader may display it, but the question marks should be boxes: (displays "8??????9") PLEASE do not post in HTML!

01-07-2004, 12:29 PM	#8
Jukka K. Korpela Posts: n/a	Re: Bizarre display behavior with "+" and "-" signs in IE 6.0 only "Jay" <> wrote: >> Why are you using UTF-7 on a web page? > > I'm not. As I said, it was the default setting. I don't know how it > got that way cuz I sure didn't change it; I never modify the > encoding option when browsing, so maybe I had browsed to a page set > to UTF-7 immediately before encountering this issue. Quite probably so. But then the problem was, in part, caused by the test page you viewed - or, rather, by the lack of charset specification in its HTTP headers, or even a simulation thereof in a <meta> tag. When you view a page that has no encoding information, browsers tend to imply the last encoding used, carrying it over from the previous page. This may cause great confusion. -- Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/ Pages about Web authoring: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/www.html

01-08-2004, 12:21 AM	#9
Jay Posts: n/a	Re: Bizarre display behavior with "+" and "-" signs in IE 6.0 only "Jukka K. Korpela" <> wrote in message news:Xns9469933857A02jkorpelacstutfi@193.229.0.31. .. > > Quite probably so. But then the problem was, in part, caused by the > test page you viewed - or, rather, by the lack of charset specification > in its HTTP headers, or even a simulation thereof in a <meta> tag. Yes. This was a test page whose meta tags hadn't yet been set. Because I was getting JavaScript errors, naturally the JS code was the first place I looked, and I was getting JS errors as long as the +...- character combo was on the page (not sure why it affected the totally unrelated JS, though) -- never occurred to me that encoding was the problem. Anyway, it's sorted, thanks.

01-08-2004, 12:28 AM	#10
Jay Posts: n/a	Re: Bizarre display behavior with "+" and "-" signs in IE 6.0 only "rf" <> wrote in message news:4FSKb.81881$... > > PLEASE do not post in HTML! If you read what I posted, you saw that it was the only way to show what was being displayed in my browser, which was the point; I didn't use HTML in my other posts, did I? Clinging to some "no HMTL posting under any circumstances" credo is, at best, impractical and, at worst, pedantically purist.

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