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I see a great deal of debate about font sizes and sizing pages based
on "em" sizing or similar. Is anyone aware of a survey of how many
users (that is, non web developers or similar) actually know how to
change font size in their browsers ?

IMHE, the percentage is ~zero. I used to train a couple of dozen folks
per week in software development, primarily web development,
and I'd wager that only about 5% of even those folks knew that you
could change font size - and that 5% were all software tech's
or web developers already.

Opinions ? Facts ?

Thanks,

Bob wrote:

> I see a great deal of debate about font sizes and sizing pages based
> on "em" sizing or similar. Is anyone aware of a survey of how many
> users (that is, non web developers or similar) actually know how to
> change font size in their browsers ?

> IMHE, the percentage is ~zero. I used to train a couple of dozen folks
> per week in software development, primarily web development,
> and I'd wager that only about 5% of even those folks knew that you
> could change font size - and that 5% were all software tech's
> or web developers already.

> Opinions ? Facts ?

> Thanks,

I must be in the 5% then as I turn my font stuff off so I'm in control.
Anything I can't stand is a site that uses 6 point fonts, narrow ones, to
cram in a lot of text, then blast the outer edges with tons of large print
advertising.
So I uncheck two boxes and take control.

Problem is, half the users of a majority of software, don't even take the
time to try out the menu right in front of them.

Go into 24hoursupport.helpdesk and see how many times a week some idiot
can't figure out something simple when all he has to do is look in the menu.
Click the help button? Not on your life. Ask in a forum, it's easier.

in post <news: >
Bob said:

> I see a great deal of debate about font sizes and sizing pages based
> on "em" sizing or similar. Is anyone aware of a survey of how many
> users

your energies would be better spent developing content than trying to
find stats to back-up your poor design choices.


--
brucie
02/January/2004 05:52:21 pm kilo

"brucie" <****@bruciesusenetshit.info> wrote in message
news:bt382s$2hjqa$...
> in post <news: >
> Bob said:
>
> > I see a great deal of debate about font sizes and sizing pages based
> > on "em" sizing or similar. Is anyone aware of a survey of how many
> > users
>
> your energies would be better spent developing content than trying to
> find stats to back-up your poor design choices.
>
>



that's not an answer to the question!




> --
> brucie
> 02/January/2004 05:52:21 pm kilo

West wrote:
> "brucie" <****@bruciesusenetshit.info> wrote in message
> news:bt382s$2hjqa$...
>> in post <news: >
>> Bob said:
>>
>>> I see a great deal of debate about font sizes and sizing pages based
>>> on "em" sizing or similar. Is anyone aware of a survey of how many
>>> users
>>
>> your energies would be better spent developing content than trying to
>> find stats to back-up your poor design choices.
>
> that's not an answer to the question!

yes it is. maybe not the answer the o/p was expecting but still an answer
and far more useful too as it addresses the underlying issue that the o/p is
working towards.

85% of all stats are o-o-d
73% of all stats are based on irrelevant criteria
42.37% of all stats are made up on the spot.

--
William Tasso - http://WilliamTasso.com

"William Tasso" <> wrote in message
news:bt3jh2$2sr4h$...
> West wrote:
> > "brucie" <****@bruciesusenetshit.info> wrote in message
> > news:bt382s$2hjqa$...
> >> in post <news: >
> >> Bob said:
> >>
> >>> I see a great deal of debate about font sizes and sizing pages based
> >>> on "em" sizing or similar. Is anyone aware of a survey of how many
> >>> users
> >>
> >> your energies would be better spent developing content than trying to
> >> find stats to back-up your poor design choices.
> >
> > that's not an answer to the question!
>
> yes it is. maybe not the answer the o/p was expecting but still an answer
> and far more useful too as it addresses the underlying issue that the o/p
is
> working towards.


No, Willaim old son, I rather suspect the o/p is still trapped into
wondering whether;
1. specifying font sizes is a bad thing
2. tables are bad
3. css should be used for all web page markup
4. all posters who answer have credibility, or just repartee and writing
skills

>
> 85% of all stats are o-o-d
> 73% of all stats are based on irrelevant criteria
> 42.37% of all stats are made up on the spot.
>


BTW, what do you think of
http://www.wannabegirl.org/


Happy New Year to you!

--
S

"Bob" <> wrote in message
news:...
> I see a great deal of debate about font sizes and sizing pages based
> on "em" sizing or similar. Is anyone aware of a survey of how many
> users (that is, non web developers or similar) actually know how to
> change font size in their browsers ?

Probably a very small number, say ten or twenty million, maybe even a
hundred million. Maybe more.

> IMHE, the percentage is ~zero.

Nope. The poeple who really need to change their font size can. The people
who are perhaps a little visually impared can. Those who might, like me,
have a very large screen at a very high "resolution" can. Power users can.

> I used to train a couple of dozen folks
> per week in software development, primarily web development,
> and I'd wager that only about 5% of even those folks knew that you
> could change font size - and that 5% were all software tech's
> or web developers already.

So, you trained them. Did you also train them to use their tools correctly,
that is to be able to use all of the options those tools make available,
like changing font size? Did you tell them that it is possible to change the
font size for their entire system?

> Opinions ? Facts ?

Windows, by way of example, comes out of the box with all of the user
interface elements set to a specific font size, IIRC 12 pixels, user
configurable. The menu you see up there at the top of your newsreader.
Windoes explorer. Notepad. The task bar. All of the text in Internet
Explorer that is part of its UI, except for the canvas.

Why should any web author specify a font size for this particular canvas
that is different to the rest of the entire system the user is using? Why
would said author choose anything other than 100% or, if you like 1.0em? Why
do bonehead authors do stupid things like specify font face Verdana and then
specify a font size of 80%?

The font size the viewer has set for their system (however misguided that
may or may not be) is the font size they are used to. It is the one they
like. Let your canvas font size default to that.

Cheers
Richard.

"rf" <> wrote in message
news:nycJb.74212$...
>
> "Bob" <> wrote in message
> news:...
> > I see a great deal of debate about font sizes and sizing pages based
> > on "em" sizing or similar. Is anyone aware of a survey of how many
> > users (that is, non web developers or similar) actually know how to
> > change font size in their browsers ?
>
> Probably a very small number, say ten or twenty million, maybe even a
> hundred million. Maybe more.



"say" figures above are "say" wrong!
....so the rest of the post must be credible??

--
W




>
> > IMHE, the percentage is ~zero.
>
> Nope. The poeple who really need to change their font size can. The people
> who are perhaps a little visually impared can. Those who might, like me,
> have a very large screen at a very high "resolution" can. Power users can.
>
> > I used to train a couple of dozen folks
> > per week in software development, primarily web development,
> > and I'd wager that only about 5% of even those folks knew that you
> > could change font size - and that 5% were all software tech's
> > or web developers already.
>
> So, you trained them. Did you also train them to use their tools
correctly,
> that is to be able to use all of the options those tools make available,
> like changing font size? Did you tell them that it is possible to change
the
> font size for their entire system?
>
> > Opinions ? Facts ?
>
> Windows, by way of example, comes out of the box with all of the user
> interface elements set to a specific font size, IIRC 12 pixels, user
> configurable. The menu you see up there at the top of your newsreader.
> Windoes explorer. Notepad. The task bar. All of the text in Internet
> Explorer that is part of its UI, except for the canvas.
>
> Why should any web author specify a font size for this particular canvas
> that is different to the rest of the entire system the user is using? Why
> would said author choose anything other than 100% or, if you like 1.0em?
Why
> do bonehead authors do stupid things like specify font face Verdana and
then
> specify a font size of 80%?
>
> The font size the viewer has set for their system (however misguided that
> may or may not be) is the font size they are used to. It is the one they
> like. Let your canvas font size default to that.
>
> Cheers
> Richard.
>
>

In article <>,
says...
> I see a great deal of debate about font sizes and sizing pages based
> on "em" sizing or similar. Is anyone aware of a survey of how many
> users (that is, non web developers or similar) actually know how to
> change font size in their browsers ?

I would guess that about 60% of the people know how to use it. The only
reason I come up with that number is that is about the population that
wears glasses. (resource:
http://www.allaboutvision.com/resources/statistics.htm)

> IMHE, the percentage is ~zero...

Probably wrong.

--
Whitecrest Entertainment
www.whitecrestent.com

On Fri, 02 Jan 2004 03:59:28 GMT, Bob <>
wrote:

>IMHE, the percentage is ~zero.

Probably close.

However the real question is "Of those users with vision problems,
either their own sight, or their use of ultra-res video and a
physically small screen, how many either know this, or had it adjusted
once on installation ?"

My guess is that that number is rather higher.


--
Congrats to STBL on his elevation from TLA to ETLA