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iframe issues...

 
 
badstyle
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      12-23-2003
i am just debating with whether it would be such a bad idea for me to use
one or two iframes within my site. but i don't really know a lot about
compatibility and accessibility issues in relation to this - as i've kept
away from it in the past.

you see - at the moment i have standard text based hyperlink nav'menu to the
left that sits within a table layout in relation to the content.

i don't know whether i should really consider making this navigation an
iframe within the table as i want to keep the same navigation system
through-out my site. however if at a later date i want to add/amend a link
it means going through all of my documents and add or amend any links. the
iframe would obviously eliminate that. i do plan for my site to become quite
large over time, and would rather have it set up now to deal with such scale
editing.

in the scale of things is it worth me implementing this? or should i just
bite the bullet and manually update every page as and when it needs doing?
or maybe XML might be the way forward with this potential problem?

what are your thoughts?



...b..


 
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David Dorward
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      12-23-2003
badstyle wrote:

> i am just debating with whether it would be such a bad idea for me to use
> one or two iframes within my site. but i don't really know a lot about
> compatibility and accessibility issues in relation to this - as i've kept
> away from it in the past.


Probably a bad idea. Frames of any sort usually cause more problems then
they solve, and iframes have worse support then normal frames.

> you see - at the moment i have standard text based hyperlink nav'menu to
> the left


This is good

> that sits within a table layout in relation to the content.


This is bad

http://www.allmyfaqs.com/faq.pl?Tableless_layouts

> i don't know whether i should really consider making this navigation an
> iframe within the table as i want to keep the same navigation system
> through-out my site. however if at a later date i want to add/amend a link
> it means going through all of my documents and add or amend any links. the
> iframe would obviously eliminate that. i do plan for my site to become
> quite large over time, and would rather have it set up now to deal with
> such scale editing.


There are plenty of other tools which save you that effort, but without the
side effects that frames bring.

http://www.allmyfaqs.com/faq.pl?Incl...ile_in_another

> in the scale of things is it worth me implementing this?


No

> or should i just bite the bullet and manually update every page as and
> when it needs doing?


No

> or maybe XML might be the way forward with this potential problem?


XML is just a way to store, and transmit, data. It isn't particulally useful
for this problem.

> what are your thoughts?


Above

--
David Dorward <http://dorward.me.uk/>
 
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William Tasso
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      12-23-2003
badstyle wrote:
> ...
> i want to keep the same navigation
> system through-out my site.


what you need is SSI (Server Side Includes). In the event that this
technology is not available to you or its use is in some way undesirable
then research HTML pre-processors.

--
William Tasso - http://WilliamTasso.com


 
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badstyle
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      12-23-2003

"badstyle" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:bsa31p$d0g$(E-Mail Removed)...
> i am just debating with whether it would be such a bad idea for me to use
> one or two iframes within my site. but i don't really know a lot about
> compatibility and accessibility issues in relation to this - as i've kept
> away from it in the past.
>
> what are your thoughts?
>
> ..b..



guy's your help is brilliant - i thank you!

i am particularly impressed with pre-processing i never knew this was
possible without server side scripting.
http://www.allmyfaqs.com/faq.pl?Incl...ile_in_another

i was also aware about the tableless layout possibilities with CSS but i was
a bit wary about implementing it with this vision in mind:

http://www.btinternet.com/~badstyle/default-table.htm

i know there is some tidying up and nipping an tucking to do with the HTML
on that link. but in relation to tableless layout i'm a little concerned as
to whether this design is achievable and as easily upkeep-able using
css-based layout as i feel it would be just using tables.

how easy would it be to concert this vision to css-layout form and what
other benefits does this formating hold?


...b..


 
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David Dorward
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      12-23-2003
badstyle wrote:
> how easy would it be to concert this vision to css-layout form


Pretty trivial if you know what you are doing - the trouble is that you have
to learn how to use the tool first.

> and what other benefits does this formating hold?


Less markup.
More accessible
Easier to maintain.
Needs less bandwidth
More search engine friendly
Easier for browsers to render incrementally
Different layouts for different media types (e.g. print and screen)

--
David Dorward <http://dorward.me.uk/>
 
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badstyle
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      12-23-2003
"David Dorward" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:bsa81n$l8p$1$(E-Mail Removed)...
> badstyle wrote:
> > how easy would it be to concert this vision to css-layout form

>
> Pretty trivial if you know what you are doing - the trouble is that you

have
> to learn how to use the tool first.
>
> > and what other benefits does this formating hold?

>
> Less markup.
> More accessible
> Easier to maintain.
> Needs less bandwidth
> More search engine friendly
> Easier for browsers to render incrementally
> Different layouts for different media types (e.g. print and screen)
>
> --
> David Dorward <http://dorward.me.uk/>



thanks again david! i'll seriously be looking into this for my layout.

cheers

...b..


 
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Steve R.
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      12-23-2003
David Dorward wrote in message ...
> Frames of any sort usually cause more problems than they solve,


Not true, the problems they cause are minor .

For someone who is building a website where the pages are constantly
expanding or changing they work very effectively if created in the proper
manner, as it makes it so easy to update or change the menu by just
changing the info in the menu frame.


 
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David Dorward
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      12-23-2003
Steve R. wrote:

> David Dorward wrote in message ...
>> Frames of any sort usually cause more problems than they solve,

>
> Not true, the problems they cause are minor .


I consider the extra effort required to make <noframes> content, the extra
bandwidth used (transmitting the content twice), the orphan pages thrown up
by search engines, the problems bookmarking and link sharing etc to be
rather major.

> For someone who is building a website where the pages are constantly
> expanding or changing they work very effectively if created in the proper
> manner, as it makes it so easy to update or change the menu by just
> changing the info in the menu frame.


That benefit can be achieved using several other technologies which don't
come with those serious side effects.

http://www.allmyfaqs.com/faq.pl?Incl...ile_in_another

--
David Dorward <http://dorward.me.uk/>
 
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Andrew Glasgow
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      12-25-2003
In article <bsa31p$d0g$(E-Mail Removed)>,
"badstyle" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> i am just debating with whether it would be such a bad idea for me to use
> one or two iframes within my site. but i don't really know a lot about
> compatibility and accessibility issues in relation to this - as i've kept
> away from it in the past.
>
> you see - at the moment i have standard text based hyperlink nav'menu to the
> left that sits within a table layout in relation to the content.
>
> i don't know whether i should really consider making this navigation an
> iframe within the table as i want to keep the same navigation system
> through-out my site. however if at a later date i want to add/amend a link
> it means going through all of my documents and add or amend any links. the
> iframe would obviously eliminate that. i do plan for my site to become quite
> large over time, and would rather have it set up now to deal with such scale
> editing.
>
> in the scale of things is it worth me implementing this? or should i just
> bite the bullet and manually update every page as and when it needs doing?
> or maybe XML might be the way forward with this potential problem?
>
> what are your thoughts?


If it is an option, do server-side includes.

If it is not, do it client side.

Write a html document of just the content, and put a <!--standard
headers--> at the beginning of it. Then do a search-and-replace over
your files (any competent HTML editor program should be able to do
multi-file-S&R) to replace those with a standard header format,
including any meta tags, CSS includes, and navbars that you share
throughout your site.

--
| Andrew Glasgow <amg39(at)cornell.edu> |
| "This site was constructed with FrontPage. We regret any inconvenience and |
| irritation this may cause. We're sorry about the whole thing, really, but |
| Frontpage seemed like a good idea at the time." -- Jerry Muelver in alt.html|
 
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