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Font Embedding in HTML

 
 
Bassam A. Jarad
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      10-28-2003
Hi All,

My application creates HTML files at run-time and I wish to add font
embedding support to it. i.e., to create HTML documents with embedded
fonts (relying on PFR font files) but I have two problems:

1. WebFont Maker is no longer supported by bitstream
www.bitstream.com, how can I get a copy of this app. or atleast get
similar one.
2. I want to create .PFR files at runtime, can WebFont Maker work from
command line ? if it can't, is there another one that can ?

Finally can MS WEFT work from command line ? if it does, how can I use
it from there?

best regards.
Bassam A. Jarad
 
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Nick Howes
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Posts: n/a
 
      10-28-2003

"Bassam A. Jarad" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) om...
> 1. WebFont Maker is no longer supported by bitstream
> www.bitstream.com, how can I get a copy of this app. or atleast get
> similar one.
> 2. I want to create .PFR files at runtime, can WebFont Maker work from
> command line ? if it can't, is there another one that can ?


I guess you have a lot of fonts to convert if you want them to go at
runtime. A font gallery? Why not instead generate images of the fonts on
runtime, with some server script like php, it'll probably turn out quicker
and be far more likely to actually work. Of course I'm just assuming the
nature of your website, I could be wrong.


 
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DU
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      10-28-2003
Bassam A. Jarad wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> My application creates HTML files at run-time and I wish to add font
> embedding support to it.


Why would you need to add embedded fonts to dynamically generated html
files? Can you elaborate on your website context, requirements,
analysis? I'm sure you must have good reasons and justifications for
such precise and demanding requirements.

i.e., to create HTML documents with embedded
> fonts (relying on PFR font files) but I have two problems:
>


..pfr are only supported by certain versions of NS 4. .pfr development
softwares have stopped being developed and released since Netscape corp.
stopped supporting .pfr and that was a long time ago..

> 1. WebFont Maker is no longer supported by bitstream
> www.bitstream.com, how can I get a copy of this app. or atleast get
> similar one.


Have you searched google.com on this? Have you searched comp.fonts
newsgroup archives on this?

> 2. I want to create .PFR files at runtime, can WebFont Maker work from
> command line ? if it can't, is there another one that can ?
>
> Finally can MS WEFT work from command line ? if it does, how can I use
> it from there?
>
> best regards.
> Bassam A. Jarad


There may be a solution to your webpage situation but without
understanding the matters related to your website context, it's pretty
difficult.

DU
--
Javascript and Browser bugs:
http://www10.brinkster.com/doctorunclear/
- Resources, help and tips for Netscape 7.x users and Composer
- Interactive demos on Popup windows, music (audio/midi) in Netscape 7.x
http://www10.brinkster.com/doctorunc...e7Section.html

 
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Bassam A. Jarad
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      10-29-2003
DU <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:<bnlqep$kvi$(E-Mail Removed)>...
> Bassam A. Jarad wrote:
>
> > Hi All,
> >
> > My application creates HTML files at run-time and I wish to add font
> > embedding support to it.

>
> Why would you need to add embedded fonts to dynamically generated html
> files? Can you elaborate on your website context, requirements,
> analysis? I'm sure you must have good reasons and justifications for
> such precise and demanding requirements.
>
> i.e., to create HTML documents with embedded
> > fonts (relying on PFR font files) but I have two problems:
> >

>
> .pfr are only supported by certain versions of NS 4. .pfr development
> softwares have stopped being developed and released since Netscape corp.
> stopped supporting .pfr and that was a long time ago..
>
> > 1. WebFont Maker is no longer supported by bitstream
> > www.bitstream.com, how can I get a copy of this app. or atleast get
> > similar one.

>
> Have you searched google.com on this? Have you searched comp.fonts
> newsgroup archives on this?
>
> > 2. I want to create .PFR files at runtime, can WebFont Maker work from
> > command line ? if it can't, is there another one that can ?
> >
> > Finally can MS WEFT work from command line ? if it does, how can I use
> > it from there?
> >
> > best regards.
> > Bassam A. Jarad

>
> There may be a solution to your webpage situation but without
> understanding the matters related to your website context, it's pretty
> difficult.
>
> DU


I noticed that .PFR files are no longer supported in Netscape 6. The
only reason that I made PFR as my choice for font embedding is to
enable Netscape users to view my files correctly. I'm not sure now if
I should go back to WEFT .EOT files.

I have an application, which creates HTML documents for my users
depending on their data. My application needs to embed fonts which are
being used in the HTML document to make sure it will be viewed
correctly anywhere. I don't know which fonts will be used in my
document; I didn't put any limits on this.

I have some choices to solve my font-embedding problem:
1. Find a command-line utility/SDK to create this kind of fonts (to be
embedded).
2. Understand the format of the .EOT font and create it myself.
3. Rasterize the font and insert the characters as images inside the
document, but I don't prefer this solution. I want users to be able to
search the document.

Any ideas?
 
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Jukka K. Korpela
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      10-29-2003
http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) (Bassam A. Jarad) wrote:

> My application needs to embed fonts which are
> being used in the HTML document to make sure it will be viewed
> correctly anywhere.


Then your application needs the impossible.

Not all browsers support embedded fonts at all, and those that do, allow
(thank &Deity the user to switch them off (perhaps still allowing pages to
set the font _otherwise_).

--
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
Pages about Web authoring: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/www.html


 
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Toby A Inkster
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      10-29-2003
Bassam A. Jarad wrote:

> I have an application, which creates HTML documents for my users
> depending on their data.


Sounds like it should be creating PDF documents.

--
Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
Contact Me - http://www.goddamn.co.uk/tobyink/?id=132

 
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Andreas Prilop
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      10-29-2003
(E-Mail Removed) (Bassam A. Jarad) wrote:

> My application needs to embed fonts which are
> being used in the HTML document


This one? http://www.geocities.com/bassamjarad/editor.html
Welcome to my killfile.
 
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DU
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      10-29-2003
Toby A Inkster wrote:
> Bassam A. Jarad wrote:
>
>
>>I have an application, which creates HTML documents for my users
>>depending on their data.

>
>
> Sounds like it should be creating PDF documents.
>


Exactly what I thought too!

DU
--
Javascript and Browser bugs:
http://www10.brinkster.com/doctorunclear/
- Resources, help and tips for Netscape 7.x users and Composer
- Interactive demos on Popup windows, music (audio/midi) in Netscape 7.x
http://www10.brinkster.com/doctorunc...e7Section.html

 
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DU
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      10-29-2003
Jukka K. Korpela wrote:

> (E-Mail Removed) (Bassam A. Jarad) wrote:
>
>
>>My application needs to embed fonts which are
>>being used in the HTML document to make sure it will be viewed
>>correctly anywhere.

>
>
> Then your application needs the impossible.


or PDF editing. Borware company was embedding dynamically custom fonts
on the server and tuning the code so that browsers could render the
pages accordingly. 2 years ago, Borware had its pages on this and was
advertizing their server Fairy software. It was working for almost all
browsers. I think their product was costing too much and the
relevance/use for such product is mostly a stylistic issue of secondary
importance ; I don't see the product anymore.
Btw, Borware was the original company which was hired by Microsoft to do
WEFT and build .eot files.

>
> Not all browsers support embedded fonts at all,


MSIE 5+ for windows: so, that's at least 80% of all users out there.
I believe MSIE 5.x for Mac also support .eot but I could be wrong.

and those that do, allow
> (thank &Deity the user to switch them off


Correct. In MSIE 6 for windows, it's
Tools/Internet Options.../Security tab/Internet Content Zone selected
and then click Custom level... button/Downloads section/Font
download/Disable radio button

There is a security issue involved as downloading a font and installing
it temporary in the os could have who knows what (virus, spyware, trojan).

That's why bugzilla has
- Bug 86525: No option to disable font downloads
http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=86525
which has a clear impact on
Bug 70132: downloadable font support via font-face
where you can read my comment:
http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=70132#c31

There is also a copyright issue for font creators.

Besides the enormous complexity, care and time implementing downloadable
and installable custom fonts would represent in Mozilla, there is
another reason why obviously Mozilla won't support dynamic fonts in the
near or middle term/future. It's more relevant to work on supporting
Unicode:

"Downloadable fonts are usually used on sites using writing systems for
which proper support has been missing in browsers in the past. These
sites (for example some Indian sites) code the text in Latin gibberish
and then use a font that to the browser and operating system seems to be
a Latin font but has eg. Devanagari glyphs, so that when the Latin
gibberish is rendered with the font it seems to a human reader to be
intelligible text in some language."

Here's a live example of such problem:

http://npc.nunavut.ca/inuktitut/graphics/click.gif

http://www.nunavut.com/technology/english/download.html

"(...) Instead of providing support for downloadable fonts, Mozilla is
addressing the real issue: support for various Unicode ranges."

http://www.mozilla.org/docs/web-deve...nloadablefonts

(perhaps still allowing pages to
> set the font _otherwise_).
>


Yep! User stylesheet with !important declarations. This time in MSIE 6
for windows it's
Tools/Internet Options/General tab/Accessibility... button/User style
sheet/Format documents using my style sheet/Browse button

DU
--
Javascript and Browser bugs:
http://www10.brinkster.com/doctorunclear/
- Resources, help and tips for Netscape 7.x users and Composer
- Interactive demos on Popup windows, music (audio/midi) in Netscape 7.x
http://www10.brinkster.com/doctorunc...e7Section.html

 
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DU
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      10-29-2003
Bassam A. Jarad wrote:

> DU <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:<bnlqep$kvi$(E-Mail Removed)>...
>
>>Bassam A. Jarad wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Hi All,
>>>
>>>My application creates HTML files at run-time and I wish to add font
>>>embedding support to it.

>>
>>Why would you need to add embedded fonts to dynamically generated html
>>files? Can you elaborate on your website context, requirements,
>>analysis? I'm sure you must have good reasons and justifications for
>>such precise and demanding requirements.
>>
>>i.e., to create HTML documents with embedded
>>
>>>fonts (relying on PFR font files) but I have two problems:
>>>

>>
>>.pfr are only supported by certain versions of NS 4. .pfr development
>>softwares have stopped being developed and released since Netscape corp.
>>stopped supporting .pfr and that was a long time ago..
>>
>>
>>>1. WebFont Maker is no longer supported by bitstream
>>>www.bitstream.com, how can I get a copy of this app. or atleast get
>>>similar one.

>>
>>Have you searched google.com on this? Have you searched comp.fonts
>>newsgroup archives on this?
>>
>>
>>>2. I want to create .PFR files at runtime, can WebFont Maker work from
>>>command line ? if it can't, is there another one that can ?
>>>
>>>Finally can MS WEFT work from command line ? if it does, how can I use
>>>it from there?
>>>
>>>best regards.
>>>Bassam A. Jarad

>>
>>There may be a solution to your webpage situation but without
>>understanding the matters related to your website context, it's pretty
>>difficult.
>>
>>DU

>
>
> I noticed that .PFR files are no longer supported in Netscape 6.


They never were supported in NS 6. The only ones were NS 4.7x.

The
> only reason that I made PFR as my choice for font embedding is to
> enable Netscape users to view my files correctly.


"correctly"? This sounds like over-excessive control of layout rendering
to me. I was expecting, hoping, praying your webpage requirements were
language community needs based (community culture and language
struggling), say, e.g., for the US Indian-American Cherookee community.

I'm not sure now if
> I should go back to WEFT .EOT files.
>
> I have an application, which creates HTML documents for my users
> depending on their data. My application needs to embed fonts which are
> being used in the HTML document to make sure it will be viewed
> correctly anywhere. I don't know which fonts will be used in my
> document; I didn't put any limits on this.
>


You're just repeating what your original post was saying. You're still
not explaining your website context, why's, no url, no presentation of
your real website situation.

> I have some choices to solve my font-embedding problem:
> 1. Find a command-line utility/SDK to create this kind of fonts (to be
> embedded).
> 2. Understand the format of the .EOT font and create it myself.
> 3. Rasterize the font and insert the characters as images inside the
> document, but I don't prefer this solution. I want users to be able to
> search the document.
>
> Any ideas?


Contact Borware (if they still exist; last time I heard of them, they
were located in Sweden I believe) and pay them for their server software
($200. US or so IIRC). If you do that, then even NS 4, NS 6, NS 7 and a
wide range of browsers will do whatever you wanted to do.

DU
--
Javascript and Browser bugs:
http://www10.brinkster.com/doctorunclear/
- Resources, help and tips for Netscape 7.x users and Composer
- Interactive demos on Popup windows, music (audio/midi) in Netscape 7.x
http://www10.brinkster.com/doctorunc...e7Section.html

 
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