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Newbie Table validation problem

 
 
Laura Boone
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Posts: n/a
 
      07-21-2003
I've been working very hard to follow examples re how to mark up a
table properly. I've come up with this page:
http://www.lamardesigns.com/sandbox/Annl_Report.htm

I have tried to implement the table style suggested here:
http://www.canadacomputes.com/story.asp?id=10128&sb=337


To me, everything looks just as I want it under both IE 5.0 and
Netscape 7.0. As well, Bobby flags no Priority 1 or 2 errors.

I would be a happy camper but that W3C validator is flagging a lot of
my code...and I don't like that at all !! It is flagging the
"attributes" I have coded on my TD's with "there is no attribute
xx"... My greatest concern is how this will translate to
screenreaders or other assistive technologies & I don't want to just
leave it as is.

I'm not sure where I've gone wrong, but would certainly appreciate if
someone could help me to get back on the right track.

Aside from the things that have been flagged, I have concerns about:

- the way I've coded the "blank lines"....I've given each occurrence a
separate id and I think that is wrong/unnecessary...I coded them as
such, because I was concerned about duplicate id's. Is there a better
approach?

- the use of a stack of   in conjunction with left align - I
think I'm missing something elementary here. I guess this isn't
"wrong" per se, but cheesy nonetheless...agreed ?

I would appreciate any constructive advice. Thanks !

Laura
 
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Mark Parnell
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Posts: n/a
 
      07-22-2003
Laura Boone wrote:
> http://www.lamardesigns.com/sandbox/Annl_Report.htm
>
> I would be a happy camper but that W3C validator is flagging a lot of
> my code...and I don't like that at all !! It is flagging the
> "attributes" I have coded on my TD's with "there is no attribute
> xx"...


That's because none of those attributes exist in HTML 4.01 - what are they
supposed to do?


> My greatest concern is how this will translate to
> screenreaders or other assistive technologies & I don't want to just
> leave it as is.
>


Most browsers will ignore attributes that they don't understand (which is
what they are supposed to do), so they shouldn't cause any problems, but you
should remove them anyway, as they aren't doing anything, and are incorrect.

Here is what it looks like in Lynx:
http://www.delorie.com/web/lynxview....nnl_Report.htm

> Aside from the things that have been flagged, I have concerns about:
>
> - the use of a stack of   in conjunction with left align - I
> think I'm missing something elementary here. I guess this isn't
> "wrong" per se, but cheesy nonetheless...agreed ?
>


Agreed. Perhaps something like class="foo" on those <td>s and add
td.foo{padding-left: 2em;} (play with the value) to your stylesheet?

> I would appreciate any constructive advice. Thanks !


You have no <body> tag, and an extra </head> tag at the end of the document.
The validator shows a couple of other errors like that, but get rid of all
those non-existent attributes first, then you can sort out the last couple
of errors.

The semicolon in your div.right style should be inside the brackets, not
outside.


In a couple of places you have XHTML-style markup, e.g. <br /> - if you are
using HTML, it should be <br>.

Your headings should be marked as such, e.g. <h1>STATEMENT OF OPERATIONS
YEAR ENDED MARCH 31, 2002</h1>.

HTH

--

Mark Parnell
http://www.clarkecomputers.com.au


 
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Laura Boone
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Posts: n/a
 
      07-22-2003
On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 10:28:27 +1000, "Mark Parnell"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Laura Boone wrote:
>> http://www.lamardesigns.com/sandbox/Annl_Report.htm
>>
>> I would be a happy camper but that W3C validator is flagging a lot of
>> my code...and I don't like that at all !! It is flagging the
>> "attributes" I have coded on my TD's with "there is no attribute
>> xx"...

>
>That's because none of those attributes exist in HTML 4.01 - what are they
>supposed to do?


Silly me....I failed to recognize "headers=" in the sample as an
attribute. I interpreted it as a variable that I had to modify to
match my data. If I simply replace all of those invalid attributes
with headers= , I'll be back on the right track.

>
>
>> My greatest concern is how this will translate to
>> screenreaders or other assistive technologies & I don't want to just
>> leave it as is.
>>

>
>Most browsers will ignore attributes that they don't understand (which is
>what they are supposed to do), so they shouldn't cause any problems, but you
>should remove them anyway, as they aren't doing anything, and are incorrect.
>
>Here is what it looks like in Lynx:
>http://www.delorie.com/web/lynxview....nnl_Report.htm
>
>> Aside from the things that have been flagged, I have concerns about:
>>
>> - the use of a stack of &nbsp; in conjunction with left align - I
>> think I'm missing something elementary here. I guess this isn't
>> "wrong" per se, but cheesy nonetheless...agreed ?
>>

>
>Agreed. Perhaps something like class="foo" on those <td>s and add
>td.foo{padding-left: 2em;} (play with the value) to your stylesheet?'



Right you are....thanks !

>
>> I would appreciate any constructive advice. Thanks !

>
>You have no <body> tag, and an extra </head> tag at the end of the document.
>The validator shows a couple of other errors like that, but get rid of all
>those non-existent attributes first, then you can sort out the last couple
>of errors.
>
>The semicolon in your div.right style should be inside the brackets, not
>outside.
>
>
>In a couple of places you have XHTML-style markup, e.g. <br /> - if you are
>using HTML, it should be <br>.


In extracting the tables from a much larger page, I guess I messed up
a few things. Thanks for highlighting these.

>
>Your headings should be marked as such, e.g. <h1>STATEMENT OF OPERATIONS
>YEAR ENDED MARCH 31, 2002</h1>.


Within the larger page, this is the case.
>
>HTH


I'm working on these changes. I'm sure it will work much better now.
Thanks again !

Laura
 
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Laura Boone
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      07-22-2003
On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 10:28:27 +1000, "Mark Parnell"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Laura Boone wrote:
>> http://www.lamardesigns.com/sandbox/Annl_Report.htm
>>
>> I would be a happy camper but that W3C validator is flagging a lot of
>> my code...and I don't like that at all !! It is flagging the
>> "attributes" I have coded on my TD's with "there is no attribute
>> xx"...

>
>That's because none of those attributes exist in HTML 4.01 - what are they
>supposed to do?


Okay, I've gone back and made some revisions.
Here's what I had:
http://www.lamardesigns.com/sandbox/Annl_Report.htm

<tr>
<td hrdc="grants category">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n bsp;Human
Resources Development Canada</td>
<td hrdc="grants amount02" align="right">59,475</td>
<td hrdc="grants amount01" align="right">82,100</td>
</tr>

And here's the revised version:
http://www.lamardesigns.com/sandbox/Annl_Report2.htm

<tr>
<td class="indent" headers="grants category" title="Human Resources
Development Canada">Human Resources Development Canada</td>
<td headers="grants amount02" align="right">59,475</td>
<td headers="grants amount01" align="right">82,100</td>
</tr>

.....right ???....though it does seem a tad redundant, no? (maybe just
because I am fully sighted? and/or lacking a full understanding ...??)

>
>
>> My greatest concern is how this will translate to
>> screenreaders or other assistive technologies & I don't want to just
>> leave it as is.
>>

>
>Most browsers will ignore attributes that they don't understand (which is
>what they are supposed to do), so they shouldn't cause any problems, but you
>should remove them anyway, as they aren't doing anything, and are incorrect.
>
>Here is what it looks like in Lynx:
>http://www.delorie.com/web/lynxview....nnl_Report.htm



Well, now the code passes the validator and Bobby likes it too.
Lynx viewer ....well, it looks like the data without the formatting.
I don't know what I can do so that it would make sense to a text only
viewer. I guess I just am not familiar with how this can be
accommodated.

As well, I've reviewed the page with IBM Home Page Reader. Again, I
think I'm missing something. It seems to me that there should be more
"wordiness" about each field as it is being read, beyond just reading
the column headings up front. Do you know what I mean? If I simply
close my eyes and listen, I'm just hearing a bunch of names and
amounts and I've already forgotten what the column headings are. Is
there more that I should be doing in this regard?

>
>> Aside from the things that have been flagged, I have concerns about:
>>
>> - the use of a stack of &nbsp; in conjunction with left align - I
>> think I'm missing something elementary here. I guess this isn't
>> "wrong" per se, but cheesy nonetheless...agreed ?
>>

>
>Agreed. Perhaps something like class="foo" on those <td>s and add
>td.foo{padding-left: 2em;} (play with the value) to your stylesheet?


Exactly....I've added the style instream & will move it up to the
stylesheet when I move these reports into the full page. Thanks !

>
>> I would appreciate any constructive advice. Thanks !

>
>You have no <body> tag, and an extra </head> tag at the end of the document.
>The validator shows a couple of other errors like that, but get rid of all
>those non-existent attributes first, then you can sort out the last couple
>of errors.
>
>The semicolon in your div.right style should be inside the brackets, not
>outside.
>
>
>In a couple of places you have XHTML-style markup, e.g. <br /> - if you are
>using HTML, it should be <br>.
>
>Your headings should be marked as such, e.g. <h1>STATEMENT OF OPERATIONS
>YEAR ENDED MARCH 31, 2002</h1>.
>
>HTH


Could you please take another look and advise anew? Thanks so very
much !

Laura

 
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Mark Parnell
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      07-22-2003
Laura Boone wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 10:28:27 +1000, "Mark Parnell"
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> And here's the revised version:
> http://www.lamardesigns.com/sandbox/Annl_Report2.htm
>
> <tr>
> <td class="indent" headers="grants category" title="Human Resources
> Development Canada">Human Resources Development Canada</td>
> <td headers="grants amount02" align="right">59,475</td>
> <td headers="grants amount01" align="right">82,100</td>
> </tr>
>
> ....right ???....though it does seem a tad redundant, no? (maybe just
> because I am fully sighted? and/or lacking a full understanding ...??)
>


Not really redundant, no. It seems more that way because you are looking at
the code. When you look at the page itself it looks the way you intended,
and the markup is valid.

>>
>> Here is what it looks like in Lynx:
>>

http://www.delorie.com/web/lynxview....nnl_Report.htm
>
>
> Well, now the code passes the validator and Bobby likes it too.
> Lynx viewer ....well, it looks like the data without the formatting.
> I don't know what I can do so that it would make sense to a text only
> viewer. I guess I just am not familiar with how this can be
> accommodated.
>


Tables generally don't translate well to text or speech browsers. There are
a few things you can do to help it, but someone else would be better suited
to advise you on that - not really my forte.

>
> Could you please take another look and advise anew? Thanks so very
> much !
>


Looking much better!

--

Mark Parnell
http://www.clarkecomputers.com.au


 
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