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Re: Avoiding Redundancy Without Frames

 
 
Dan Brussee
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      07-08-2003
In article <3f0a1924$0$(E-Mail Removed)>,
http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) says...
> Matt Beckwith wrote:
>
> [Tables vs. frames]
>
> Don't use either. Tables are for tabular data. HTML is for content, CSS is
> for presentation.
>


<donning flame retardent suit>
While it is true that "Tables are for tabular data", if it works, why
NOT use it? Im not saying there is not good reasons for not using
tables, but what are the top ones? If it's mainly theory then why are we
bothering with it?


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Lauri Raittila
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      07-08-2003
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, Dan
Brussee wrote:
> In article <3f0a1924$0$(E-Mail Removed)>,
> (E-Mail Removed) says...
> > Matt Beckwith wrote:
> >
> > [Tables vs. frames]
> >
> > Don't use either. Tables are for tabular data. HTML is for content, CSS is
> > for presentation.
> >

>
> <donning flame retardent suit>
> While it is true that "Tables are for tabular data", if it works, why
> NOT use it?


Well, it usually don't. It may look so in some browsers, with some
settings, but it pretty much don't on other browser and settings.

> Im not saying there is not good reasons for not using
> tables, but what are the top ones?


-It will slow down download and rendering.
-It will cause extra scrollbars
-It is hard to debug and maintain, especially when using server side
things (at least I have seen hundreds of pages that make some stupid
mistake because they use table markup - and I don't look source unless
I'm asked or if page don't work and I'm still interested)
-It is impossible for machine to know if it is tabular data or layout
stuff

> If it's mainly theory then why are we
> bothering with it?


It is not theory. You must be using some common browser with common
settings when you are not noticing it. I use Opera 7.2b1 with 570*550px
canvas area and lots of unconventional settings -> many sites have extra
scrollbar, just because author used table, when it was not necessary.

There is some cases where layout table is sensible aproach, but those are
really rare.

--
Lauri Raittila <http://www.iki.fi/lr> <http://www.iki.fi/zwak/fonts>
Saapi lähettää meiliä, jos aihe ei liity ryhmään, tai on yksityinen
tjsp., mutta älä lähetä samaa viestiä meilitse ja ryhmään.

 
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spaghetti
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      07-08-2003

"Dan Brussee" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> While it is true that "Tables are for tabular data", if it works, why
> NOT use it?


Have you ever tried to drive nails with a rock?

If we drive on the left hand side of the street (in the US) it works, we
will get there, but it's not the safest nor the best way.



 
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Mark Parnell
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      07-08-2003
Dan Brussee wrote:

> Yeah, but! <grin>
> What about browsers that dont handle CSS very well (older browsers,
> etc)
> but DO support tables.


You hide the CSS from them (all of it, or just the bits they don't handle).
That way they still get the content, just not all the bells and whistles.

--

Mark Parnell
http://www.clarkecomputers.com.au


 
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