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Re: Label tag?

 
 
David Dorward
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      06-25-2003
SamuŽl van Laere wrote:

> Just a question:
> Should i use the <LABEL> tag with forms elements?


Yes

> Currently i use the <P> tag, so wich is best to use?


All form elements should be labeled. If they are paragraphs then they should
be marked up as paragraphs too.

> Will the <LABEL> tag stay in the HTML definition?


Yes

> Also:
> Does anyone know a free speechbrowser, that i can use to test my pages?


http://freshmeat.net/projects/emacspeak/ ... but good luck getting it to
work.

Generally, if it works well in lynx <http://www.lynx.browser.org>, then it
will work well in an aural browser.

--
David Dorward http://david.us-lot.org/
Redesign in progress: http://stone.thecoreworlds.net/
Microsoft announces IE is dead (so upgrade):
http://minutillo.com/steve/weblog/20...ces-ie-is-dead
 
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SamuŽl van Laere
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      06-25-2003
"David Dorward" <(E-Mail Removed)> schreef in bericht
news:bdd6vm$kkq$1$(E-Mail Removed)...
> SamuŽl van Laere wrote:
>
> > Just a question:
> > Should i use the <LABEL> tag with forms elements?

>
> Yes
>
> > Currently i use the <P> tag, so wich is best to use?

>
> All form elements should be labeled. If they are paragraphs then they

should
> be marked up as paragraphs too.
>
> > Will the <LABEL> tag stay in the HTML definition?

>
> Yes
>
> > Also:
> > Does anyone know a free speechbrowser, that i can use to test my pages?

>
> http://freshmeat.net/projects/emacspeak/ ... but good luck getting it to
> work.
>
> Generally, if it works well in lynx <http://www.lynx.browser.org>, then it
> will work well in an aural browser.
>
> --
> David Dorward http://david.us-lot.org/
> Redesign in progress: http://stone.thecoreworlds.net/
> Microsoft announces IE is dead (so upgrade):
> http://minutillo.com/steve/weblog/20...ces-ie-is-dead


Thanks for your answers David,
but what is considered "works well" in Lynx?
Would you consider my site to work well with Lynx?


--
With regards,
SamuŽl van Laere
the Netherlands
www.fortron.net


 
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David Dorward
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      06-25-2003
SamuŽl van Laere wrote:

> but what is considered "works well" in Lynx?


That comes down to opinion.

> Would you consider my site to work well with Lynx?


I don't understand the language, but it seems OK - aside from the alt text
for the logos.

Alt should hold a textual replacement for the image, not a description of
it.

--
David Dorward http://david.us-lot.org/
Redesign in progress: http://stone.thecoreworlds.net/
Microsoft announces IE is dead (so upgrade):
http://minutillo.com/steve/weblog/20...ces-ie-is-dead
 
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SamuŽl van Laere
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      06-25-2003
"Jukka K. Korpela" <(E-Mail Removed)> schreef in bericht
news:Xns93A6106969BC1jkorpelacstutfi@193.229.0.31. ..
> David Dorward <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> > All form elements should be labeled.

>
> Maybe not <input type="submit"> and relatives, though. They have name
> attributes that should be descriptive enough. But if they need
> explanations, the explaining texts could well be treated as labels:
>
> <div><label for="subs">Subscribe to the foo-bar mailing list:</label>
> <input id="subs" type="submit" value="Subscribe"></div>
>
> --
> Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
> Pages about Web authoring: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/www.html
>
>


Yucca,

This is what i currently use:

<form method="POST" class="formElement">
<label for="Name">Name:</label>
<p>
<input name="Name">
</p>
<label for="Email">E-mail:</label>
<p>
<input name="Email">
</p>
<label for="Message">Your message:</label>
<p>
<textarea name="Message" cols="30" rows="10"
class="formElement"></textarea>
</p>
<p>
<input type="submit" class="formButton" value="Send">
</p>
</form>

Is this the correct way of doing forms and labels?
Also i wonder, is there a way to use a "spacer" in html,
without using any images??


--
With regards,
SamuŽl van Laere
the Netherlands
www.fortron.net


 
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David Dorward
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      06-25-2003
SamuŽl van Laere wrote:

> This is what i currently use:


> <label for="Name">Name:</label>
> <p>
> <input name="Name">
> </p>


It seems highly unlikely that somebody's name qualifies as a paragraph.

> Is this the correct way of doing forms and labels?


No. The "for" attribute of a <label> refers to the id of the related input.

> Also i wonder, is there a way to use a "spacer" in html,
> without using any images??


HTML describes semantics, not presentation. Space between elements is
handled by the CSS margin properties.

--
David Dorward http://david.us-lot.org/
Redesign in progress: http://stone.thecoreworlds.net/
Microsoft announces IE is dead (so upgrade):
http://minutillo.com/steve/weblog/20...ces-ie-is-dead
 
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David Dorward
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      06-26-2003
SamuŽl van Laere wrote:

>>Alt should hold a textual replacement for the image, not
>>a description of it.

>
> I do not understand this answer to be honnest,
> could you show me an example?


A link to the validator with the text "W3C HTML 4.01 Validated Logo"

> For instance what should the alt of the html validated logo be?


Something along the lines of "Valid HTML 4.01" or "Validate this HTML"


--
David Dorward http://david.us-lot.org/
Redesign in progress: http://stone.thecoreworlds.net/
Microsoft announces IE is dead (so upgrade):
http://minutillo.com/steve/weblog/20...ces-ie-is-dead
 
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Chris Morris
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Posts: n/a
 
      06-26-2003
David Dorward <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:
> SamuŽl van Laere wrote:
> > Also:
> > Does anyone know a free speechbrowser, that i can use to test my pages?


IBM Home Page Reader isn't free, but does have a 30 day trial which
you can use to get a good idea of its capabilities, limitations, etc.

> http://freshmeat.net/projects/emacspeak/ ... but good luck getting it to
> work.
>
> Generally, if it works well in lynx <http://www.lynx.browser.org>, then it
> will work well in an aural browser.


Hmm...to an extent. There's considerations for aural browsers that
aren't there for Lynx.
"click here" is a far greater problem in audio, since one uses
link-skimming a lot.
<b><font size="5">Heading</font></b> will 'work' in Lynx, on most
terminals, since modern versions at least recognise <b>. Using proper
heading elements is exceptionally useful for navigating long documents
in audio.
Data tables need a bit more consideration as well - <th> alone is
usually good enough for Lynx, but I've not yet found an aural browser
that requires anything less than the full <td headers="foo">, <th
id="foo"> method. Scope doesn't seem to be enough, unfortunately.

If it works well in Lynx, one can _get the content_ with an aural
browser, but I wouldn't say it would 'automatically' work *well*...

--
Chris
 
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Jukka K. Korpela
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      06-26-2003
David Dorward <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>> For instance what should the alt of the html validated logo be?

>
> Something along the lines of "Valid HTML 4.01" or "Validate this
> HTML"


And the choice depends on what the image is meant to _say_.

The simple rule for choosing an alt attribute value is to ask oneself:
If images didn't exist in the universe, what would I write here?
Even better, write the page as if images didn't exist, then add images
as optional alternatives to some texts; those texts will then naturally
become alt attribute values.

But regarding the validation iconolatry, the _honest_ alternative would
be alt="Validate (for no good reason) my page for me." More info:
http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/html/validation.html

--
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
Pages about Web authoring: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/www.html


 
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