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What does this mean??

 
 
Sharp Tool
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      11-02-2005
> > That being said, I do understand that languages and computers are very
> > distinct, and not everyone has a grasp on both. I think it's good that
> > people whose English is less than perfect find their way to Usenet and

try
> > their best to explain their problem, and I do try to help.

>
> I agree. Despite (obviously, as from my earlier posts) being new to this
> newsgroup, I've used Usenet for some time and web forums for even longer.
> Although people who make honest grammatical/spelling mistakes shouldn't be
> shunned (I've done it myself; "teh" instead of "the"), I think that people
> who don't care enough to even try writing clearly are the same people who
> don't care enough to try working out their own problems.
>
> Posts that look like...
> hey can some1 help me i cant get [put problem here] to wrok cause it

doesnt
> open rite
> ...probably aren't worth too much time.
>
> However, if the content is still useful to a given community and it can be
> deciphered, I've got to hand it to those who take the time to work out an
> answer. Maybe posters will learn to write clearer, more relevant posts.
>
> Of course, this thread might have evolved to be a bit OT for this

newsgroup
>
>
> --
> Ted Present
> http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed)


If you want to reach a larger audience then please refrain from using
abbreviations (e.g., OT) as not everyone will be familar with them.

Sharp Tool




 
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Sharp Tool
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      11-02-2005


> On Tue, 1 Nov 2005 16:53:17 -0500, "Rhino"
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote, quoted or indirectly
> quoted someone who said :
>
> >_You_ may want to relegate beginners to that newsgroup but I think it is

a
> >bit presumptious of you to pretend to speak for the entire Java community

or
> >to be the final authority on what belongs in each newsgroup.

>
> I think there are official charters. There are various descriptions
> of the consensus of what the groups are for in various FAQs.


FAQs written by a single or a small group of authors do not represent the
whole Java community. Those FAQs are only there as a guide and certainly do
not represent the final word.

> There are people who subscribe to only comp.lang.java. programmer.
> They are busy people. They want to stay abreast of what's happening,
> but have only a little time to do it. Threads about what *= means are
> a total waste of their valuable time.


They are not obligated to answer any threads.

Sharp Tool




 
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Sharp Tool
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      11-02-2005

> Hi everyone,
>
> >Only because they are. But at least that is a >start.
> >Once you can accurately identify stupid >questions,
> >it will(/should) help you not ask them

>
> I mean seriously andrew everyone has had their share of stupid questions
> but i asked that question because i have not done programming for some
> time and got rusty.
>
> >You should know the group. I have mentioned it >to you on earlier

> occasions.
>
> Actually i don't think you did andrew. You told me not to cross post to
> other forums(which i did not) but you did not mention to me anything about
> this as far as i know
>
> I am trying to get back into programming after many years and i have
> gotten abit rusty and hope that you guys won't take my questions as
> wasting your time as i have no such intention
>
> Richard West


Richard, the questions you asked are very basic and should have been asked
in the clj.help newsgroup... your bad. Not everyone will have the patience
for these types of questions in clj.programmer. This is a public newsgroup
so you can expect all types of characters here.

Sharp Tool




 
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Chris Uppal
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      11-02-2005
Sharp Tool wrote:

> > Of course, this thread might have evolved to be a bit OT for this
> > newsgroup

[....]
> If you want to reach a larger audience then please refrain from using
> abbreviations (e.g., OT) as not everyone will be familar with them.


Conversely, every social group (and some anti-social groups develops its
own slang. It's not often easy to tell whether the linguistic justification is
principally social (e.g. "people like us talk like us") or practical (people
who share an interest need more specialised vocabulary than is provided by the
wider language -- so they develop jargon). I think that a fair case can be
made that the classic Usenet abbreviations, OT, ISWIM, AFAIK, IIRC, IANAL, etc,
are not /just/ convenient contractions but are part of our social fabric here.
All IMO, of course...

You'll notice that contractions in general (u r g are viewed /very/
differently, which -- to my mind -- indicates that the issue is social rather
than merely reflecting the tension between the best convenience of the writer
vs. that of his/her readers.

-- chris


 
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Roedy Green
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      11-02-2005
On Wed, 02 Nov 2005 08:56:25 GMT, "Sharp Tool"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone
who said :

>> I think there are official charters. There are various descriptions
>> of the consensus of what the groups are for in various FAQs.

>
>FAQs written by a single or a small group of authors do not represent the
>whole Java community. Those FAQs are only there as a guide and certainly do
>not represent the final word.


The FAQs are probably more accurate than guesses by someone coming in
cold.

The entire newsgroup system works only because most of the time most
of the people keep mostly to common themes within each newsgroup.
Otherwise it would be pointless to subscribe to one.

It is an anarchy. This means no one is officially in charge. If
participants did not work to encourage sensible behaviour by group
pressure, it would fall into chaos.

Using the freeway analogy. You may be legally permitted to drive at
30 MPH, but then others are legally permitted to honk at you and give
you the finger, or point out the scenic route and people are permitted
to ignore you if they see you later stranded by the side of the road.

--
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Java custom programming, consulting and coaching.
 
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zero
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      11-02-2005
Roedy Green <(E-Mail Removed) > wrote in
news:(E-Mail Removed):

> On Tue, 01 Nov 2005 23:28:46 GMT, zero <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote, quoted or
> indirectly quoted someone who said :
>
>>However, being a non-native English speaker

>
> I would not have guessed. You don't have an "accent". I don't
> recognise .hi as a country code.
>


Well I don't like spam

I have been told I do have an accent when I speak. Lack of practice I
suppose, I type a lot more than I talk.

In case you were wondering, I'm from Belgium, mother tongue Dutch.

PS On the topic of spam: when I was first learning Java I wrote a spam
filter that used Bayesean filtering techniques. If you haven't checked it
out, I heartily recommend it - as long as you use each new mail you get to
continue training your filter.
 
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zero
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      11-02-2005
"Sharp Tool" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
news:VV_9f.6838$(E-Mail Removed):

>
> If you want to reach a larger audience then please refrain from using
> abbreviations (e.g., OT) as not everyone will be familar with them.
>
> Sharp Tool
>


www.acronymfinder.com
always helps me
 
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zero
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      11-02-2005
Roedy Green <(E-Mail Removed) > wrote in
news:(E-Mail Removed):

>
> Using the freeway analogy. You may be legally permitted to drive at
> 30 MPH, but then others are legally permitted to honk at you and give
> you the finger, or point out the scenic route and people are permitted
> to ignore you if they see you later stranded by the side of the road.
>


really? Not here, on both accounts. There's a minimum speed on highways,
and flashing lights, giving the finger etc are illegal as well. Still
happens of course.

As for the FAQs, I think they are accepted by most of the community
members, though perhaps not all. I've seen many newsgroup FAQ be rejected
by the community, only to be posted again by the same individual the next
month.

I would suggest some tollerance. I see no reason to be personally offended
by any post that is not personally targetting you. If a post doesn't suit
your sense of what's right for a particular newsgroup the best thing to do
is ignore it. Failing that, a polite reply correcting the poster makes a
solid alternative. If the post really is offensive then perhaps an angry
reply is warranted - although most of the time that only makes it worse.
 
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Gordon Beaton
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      11-02-2005
On Wed, 02 Nov 2005 14:18:39 GMT, Roedy Green wrote:
> What is the point of having two groups if you don't use them for
> different purposes. The logical division, is beginner questions and
> other questions.


That is just one of many possible logical distinctions, and judging
from the posts in both groups, not necessarily one that's obvious to
everyone.

The division between cljh and cljp is IMO unfortunate and
unsuccessful. The contain mostly the same kinds of discussions, and
seem to have the same readership.

> We are the people running these newsgroups. There is no one here but
> us chickens. So we should be the ones deciding as we go how we want
> to use these tools.


Good luck herding those squirrels.

/gordon

--
[ do not email me copies of your followups ]
g o r d o n + n e w s @ b a l d e r 1 3 . s e
 
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Thomas G. Marshall
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      11-02-2005
Rhino coughed up:
> "Andrew Thompson" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:tIO9f.6307$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> freesoft_2000 wrote:
>>
>>> I know these quenstions may sound stupid ..

>>
>> Only because they are. But at least that is a start.
>> Once you can accurately identify stupid questions,
>> it will(/should) help you not ask them.
>>

> There is nothing "stupid" about his questions. They simply demonstrate his
> inexperience with Java. There's nothing stupid about being new to Java; we
> were all beginners once.
>
>>> ..but please bear with me

>>
>> What motivation is there to give you the patience
>> normally reserved for Java noobs, when you fail to
>> post questions to the group* best suited for those
>> new to Java/usenet/formulating intelligent questions?
>>
>> * You should know the group. I have mentioned it to
>> you on earlier occasions.

>
> You appear to have more justification for these remarks. However, I don't
> think of comp.lang.java.help as being reserved for "noobs" or those who
> are
> new to Java, Usenet or formulating intelligent questions. I don't consider
> myself to fit into any of those categories but I post questions at
> comp.lang.java.help occasionally when I want to discuss concepts or design
> issues when I have gaps in my OO background, for instance. The atmosphere
> seems a bit more patient and tolerant there while
> comp.lang.java.programmer
> sometimes seems frenzied and rude by comparison.
>
> _You_ may want to relegate beginners to that newsgroup but I think it is a
> bit presumptious of you to pretend to speak for the entire Java community
> or
> to be the final authority on what belongs in each newsgroup.


I agree. We have got to knock this off. There is nothing in the usenet
descriptions for c.l.j.help that relegates it to beginners. I have pointed
this out before, and have *backed away* from it believing in some sort of
"common usage". However, if people here are going to get all ****y about
toward newbies and where they belong, then I will in their defense get
equally ****y and point out the descriptions of the newsgroups established
by the closest thing there is to an authority in usenet.

A person knowing of this list, or looking at its listing elsewhere, would
see this, and not think twice about asking a beginner question in
c.l.j.programmer. Does it say *advanced* ? *No*.

group: news.announce.newgroups
subject: List of Big Eight Newsgroups

comp.lang.java.3d 3D Graphics API's for the Java language.
comp.lang.java.advocacy Support for and criticism of the Java System.
comp.lang.java.announce Announcements re the Java System. (Moderated)
comp.lang.java.beans Java software components (JavaBeans).
comp.lang.java.corba Topics relating to Java and CORBA.
comp.lang.java.databases Databases, java.sql, JDBC, ODBC.
comp.lang.java.gui GUI toolkits and windowing: AWT, IFC etc.
*comp.lang.java.help Set-up problems, catch-all first aid.*
comp.lang.java.machine JVM, native methods, hardware.
comp.lang.java.programmer Programming in the Java language.
comp.lang.java.security Security issues raised by Java.
comp.lang.java.softwaretools IDEs, browsers, compilers, other tools.

BUT FAR MORE IMPORTANT THAT THIS: This angry tone toward ignorant questions
claiming they are "stupid" has got to end.

There is nothing to be gained by making newbies afraid to ask questions.

....[rip]...



--
Everythinginlifeisrealative.Apingpongballseemssmal luntilsomeoneramsitupyournose.


 
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