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Hi

I know this is not about Java development but I couldn't think of a
better place to post it. It certainly affects professional Java
personel.

I have just escaped from a rather unpleasent organization here in the
UK. At both the interviews I attended I made it quite plain that I was
after a senior Java developers position. I even made my position clear
to the MD. At all times I was assured that the position I was applying
for WAS a senior position and the salary appeared to reflect this.

In the four and a half months I endured this nightmare I did not
recieve a single project that was anywhere near what I would call
senior. In fact such projects did not appear to exist in the
organization full stop. I spent my time writing documentation and
solving networking problems that the IT department appeared unable to
fix themselves. I did make a few minor changes to a couple of
applications but I guess this amounted to no more that 5% of my
working time there.

Fortunately I managed to get another job that will start in January.

Now I do of course realise that in an organisation of whatever size it
is often a requirement that everyone chip in in times of need. BUT
that is a whole lot different to the situation I found myself in.

Actually this is not the first time that this has happened to me.

We are always told that we should never lie on our CVs.
I have certainly never lied on mine.
It appears however that employers can say whatever they like in
interviews with no comeback at all. I have now wasted 4 and a half
months of my life in a pointless exercise that has done nothing to
advance my understanding of the language.

I'd be most interested to hear if others have had similar experiences.

Many thanks
lyallex

at least you get payed well, if you got that senior salary !!



"lyallex" <> wrote in message
news:...
> Hi
>
> I know this is not about Java development but I couldn't think of a
> better place to post it. It certainly affects professional Java
> personel.
>
> I have just escaped from a rather unpleasent organization here in the
> UK. At both the interviews I attended I made it quite plain that I was
> after a senior Java developers position. I even made my position clear
> to the MD. At all times I was assured that the position I was applying
> for WAS a senior position and the salary appeared to reflect this.
>
> In the four and a half months I endured this nightmare I did not
> recieve a single project that was anywhere near what I would call
> senior. In fact such projects did not appear to exist in the
> organization full stop. I spent my time writing documentation and
> solving networking problems that the IT department appeared unable to
> fix themselves. I did make a few minor changes to a couple of
> applications but I guess this amounted to no more that 5% of my
> working time there.
>
> Fortunately I managed to get another job that will start in January.
>
> Now I do of course realise that in an organisation of whatever size it
> is often a requirement that everyone chip in in times of need. BUT
> that is a whole lot different to the situation I found myself in.
>
> Actually this is not the first time that this has happened to me.
>
> We are always told that we should never lie on our CVs.
> I have certainly never lied on mine.
> It appears however that employers can say whatever they like in
> interviews with no comeback at all. I have now wasted 4 and a half
> months of my life in a pointless exercise that has done nothing to
> advance my understanding of the language.
>
> I'd be most interested to hear if others have had similar experiences.
>
> Many thanks
> lyallex
>
>

lyallex wrote:
<snip>
> In the four and a half months I endured this nightmare I did not
> recieve a single project that was anywhere near what I would call
> senior. In fact such projects did not appear to exist in the
> organization full stop. I spent my time writing documentation and
> solving networking problems that the IT department appeared unable to
> fix themselves. I did make a few minor changes to a couple of
> applications but I guess this amounted to no more that 5% of my
> working time there.
<snip>

So what are you complaining about? Sound like a great job! My title
at one contract position was "resident guru" and I was called upon
to assist in any number of areas. It's challenging and fun. If you
expected to "advance my understanding of the language" then why
were you applying for a senior position? You should already know
just about everything Java for such a role, no?
So if this company wants a "renaissance man" and are paying the
big bucks then send the contact information.

--
Java/J2EE/JSP/Struts/Tiles/C/UNIX consulting and remote development.

heheh e Sudsy i was first

"Sudsy" <> wrote in message
news:...
> lyallex wrote:
> <snip>
> > In the four and a half months I endured this nightmare I did not
> > recieve a single project that was anywhere near what I would call
> > senior. In fact such projects did not appear to exist in the
> > organization full stop. I spent my time writing documentation and
> > solving networking problems that the IT department appeared unable to
> > fix themselves. I did make a few minor changes to a couple of
> > applications but I guess this amounted to no more that 5% of my
> > working time there.
> <snip>
>
> So what are you complaining about? Sound like a great job! My title
> at one contract position was "resident guru" and I was called upon
> to assist in any number of areas. It's challenging and fun. If you
> expected to "advance my understanding of the language" then why
> were you applying for a senior position? You should already know
> just about everything Java for such a role, no?
> So if this company wants a "renaissance man" and are paying the
> big bucks then send the contact information.
>
> --
> Java/J2EE/JSP/Struts/Tiles/C/UNIX consulting and remote development.
>

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 08:32:33 -0500, Sudsy <>
wrote:

Ah yes, the "I know everything about Java" routine.

I've been using Java for getting on for 6 years now and in no way do I
know it all ... sounds like you do though ... remarkable, you must be
the only one on the planet who does.

If you had any idea what you were talking about it would be obvious to
you that it is impossible to know it all. Just look at Jakarta,
there's enough there to keep you in full time employment just keeping
up to date with new releases.

A senior developer (or a developer at any level come to that) has a
responsibility to themself and the company they are working for to
retain familiarity with their chosen language, the only way you can do
this is to use it daily.

hmm, that must mean you know all about the latest J2SE and EJB
releases and Swing and Jakarta and Struts and all the other millions
of things Java out there

Sorry, I don't believe you.

There is more to life than money my friend. I have to enjoy going to
work or I won't do it.

the point I was making is that I was lied to in the interview. If you
have had such an experience then I am interested to hear from you, if
not, save your breath.

Lyallex

>lyallex wrote:
><snip>
>> In the four and a half months I endured this nightmare I did not
>> recieve a single project that was anywhere near what I would call
>> senior. In fact such projects did not appear to exist in the
>> organization full stop. I spent my time writing documentation and
>> solving networking problems that the IT department appeared unable to
>> fix themselves. I did make a few minor changes to a couple of
>> applications but I guess this amounted to no more that 5% of my
>> working time there.
><snip>
>
>So what are you complaining about? Sound like a great job! My title
>at one contract position was "resident guru" and I was called upon
>to assist in any number of areas. It's challenging and fun. If you
>expected to "advance my understanding of the language" then why
>were you applying for a senior position? You should already know
>just about everything Java for such a role, no?
>So if this company wants a "renaissance man" and are paying the
>big bucks then send the contact information.

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 14:52:14 +0000 (UTC), lyallex wrote:

> Ah yes, the "I know everything about Java" routine.

Can you learn the "in-line post with trimming" routine, then?
<http://www.physci.org/codes/javafaq.jsp#netiquette>

--
Andrew Thompson
http://www.PhySci.org/codes/ Web & IT Help
http://www.PhySci.org/ Open-source software suite
http://www.1point1C.org/ Science & Technology
http://www.LensEscapes.com/ Images that escape the mundane

>Can you learn the "in-line post with trimming" routine, then?
><http://www.physci.org/codes/javafaq.jsp#netiquette>

Jeez, has everyone on this list taken grumpy pills.

Happy now ?

"lyallex" <> wrote in message
news:...
> >Can you learn the "in-line post with trimming" routine, then?
> ><http://www.physci.org/codes/javafaq.jsp#netiquette>
>
> Jeez, has everyone on this list taken grumpy pills.
>
> Happy now ?

If you were the boss at the new job how would you use
a new 'hot shot'? At first you have to validage that
said person is in fact a 'hot shot'. Can't risk putting
the 'so called hot shot' on something that could take
the company down.

> I'd be most interested to hear if others have had
> similar experiences.

Hi there,

Answer slightly off-c.l.j.p.-topic, but as you ask...

I have a job right now (should be working btw, not
posting to Usenet but still took the time to go
to an interview last week. The company was a small
company (around 60 people), mostly employees and
some freelance (I'm a freelance btw).

We talked about Java... Then I mention that I know
a few things about Un*x in general and Linux in
particular (eg being able to setup a network, configuring
the stateful firewalls on the various machine, to setup
a CVS server in a chroot jail, to setup the development
DB -- PostgreSql or Mysql, do some Un*x shell scripting,
automate backup procedure over encrypted channels and
quite some more). But I clearly precise that I'm not
a Un*x admin at all, simply an enthusiast and that I'm
looking for a job where I'll be doing primarly Java
development.

And the guy, the main "Java architect", says to me: "Hey,
what if I say to you that we have two Unix admins, one of
them is really bad and we consider firing him, would
you be interested ?"



At least they were very clear about it! (Btw, I went to the
interview because a friend of mine told me they were looking
for Java developers... but he had warned me that they were
badly looking after a Unix admin so I wasn't *too* surprised
to hear this. Still, it felt funny to go to a "Java interview"
and to be asked if you're interested in a Unix admin job...)

See you soon,

Jean



P.S: And no I didn't take the "Unix admin" (!) job neither
the Java one, conditions were not better enough than what
I have now for me to consider switching. Moreover, I highly
respect skilled Unix admins, which I clearly don't consider
myself to be.

lyallex <> wrote:
> I have just escaped from a rather unpleasent organization here in the
> UK. At both the interviews I attended I made it quite plain that I was
> after a senior Java developers position. I even made my position clear
> to the MD. At all times I was assured that the position I was applying
> for WAS a senior position and the salary appeared to reflect this.
>
> In the four and a half months I endured this nightmare I did not
> recieve a single project that was anywhere near what I would call
> senior.

I wonder if you and your employer simply didn't agree on what "senior"
really means. I don't really look at the world as being composed of
"senior" work and "junior" work, so if I told you I wanted a senior
developer, it would just mean that I didn't want to train someone up to
a productive level on the job. It would not necessarily mean that I
have inherently difficult tasks that I need someone to perform.

> In fact such projects did not appear to exist in the
> organization full stop.

That seems to confirm my suspicion that you weren't lied to, but simply
misunderstood the work that existed at the organization.

--
www.designacourse.com
The Easiest Way To Train Anyone... Anywhere.

Chris Smith - Lead Software Developer/Technical Trainer
MindIQ Corporation