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michael wrote:
> how about an HTML GUI interface ? its fast , easy and reliable.
>

Depends on what you want to do. There are very serious limitations to
what can be done without JavaScript; along with somewhat serious
limitations to what can be done with JavaScript. Once JavaScript is
added, the "reliable" part goes out the window; there are all sorts of
platform-specific, browser-specific, and version-specific behaviors of
JavaScript, which are frequently encountered and difficult to avoid.

--
www.designacourse.com
The Easiest Way to Train Anyone... Anywhere.

Chris Smith - Lead Software Developer/Technical Trainer
MindIQ Corporation

On Wed, 8 Sep 2004 14:08:12 +0800, Thomas G. Marshall wrote
(in article <glx%c.5207$dC4.439@trndny06>):

> steve coughed up:
>> On Wed, 8 Sep 2004 04:31:38 +0800, Love Rhino wrote
>> (in article <>) :
>>
>>> Hello there.
>>>
>>> I have 10+ years doing C/C++/Unix development writing
>>> databases, compilers, and network software. I have
>>> a few years of Java experience.
>>>
>>> I need to write a GUI application for the fairly recent
>>> versions of Windows (NT, XP, 2000...). Since I'm all about
>>> interoperability, I'm thinking about using Java to do it.
>>> I don't have *any* GUI experience, nor Windows experience.
>>>
>>> My worry is that Java Swing isn't ideal for me. Many
>>> developers I've talked to, and website reviews I've read,
>>> say it's slow and overly complex for very simple things.
>>>
>>> I'm wondering if that's just old news, and the latest
>>> version of Swing addresses those problems? If not, can
>>> you recommend other alternatives to Swing, that are
>>> reasonably fast and portable?
>>>
>>> My project is straight forward. Provide some buttons
>>> for users to query a database, and display the data.
>>> Some of the queries may require the user for specific
>>> dates, amounts, etc. Provide some forms for users to
>>> add data to a database. Later versions, I would like
>>> the data to be displayed on a spreadsheet like table
>>> and to be able to left/right click the cell for futher
>>> drill downs, but that's later versions. My boss wants
>>> a proof of concept, right now that doesn't look
>>> ugly.
>>>
>>> I'm thinking about going the VB route, but my Unix
>>> intuition says to stay away. The better solution is to
>>> give the project to a GUI guy.
>>>
>>> Anyways, any suggestions would be great. Thanks for
>>> your time!
>>
>> I would say you are talking to idiots, who are so far out of date on
>> their technical skill , it is sad.
>>
>> the trick with java is all in the threads, most bad developers try to
>> do everything in 1 thread, ( usually the graphics thread), so they
>> end up with shitty ,slow programs. which they then blame on the java.
>> The idea is to launch multiple threads , so that operations do not
>> block each other & bog your application down.
>
> .....While being exceedingly careful to remain thread-safe. Swing is not
> thread safe. Nor are the collection classes (by default). And even with
> totally thread safe classes, you can /still/ get yourself into hot water if
> you don't synchronize properly.
>
> Java is mighty powerful. But don't go thinking that you can just launch
> multiple threads without worry.
>
That was not the issue under discussion.
A global statement was made that java is a crap language , because it is
slow.

Thread safety and synchronization are a separate but important issue.

the main point i like , is that i can sit my directors/staff down at a screen
, drag some buttons about , and prototype very fast.

nothing works, but you can still navigate thru tabs & menus.

prototyping this guys requirements would take perhaps a morning, and an
afternoon to debug/ clean up.






>
>>
>>
>>
>> check out the following: (iReport-Designer)
>> http://sourceforge.net/project/showf...group_id=64348
>>
>>
>> this will give you an idea as to speed, cross platform issues etc, of
>> using java. (I.E with a good programmer there are virtually none)
>>
>> it will also allow you to "Build" graphical reports tied to most
>> major databases.
>> it had a drag & drop interface, for fields/text etc.
>> ( you can compile 90% of the report, then the other 10% can be
>> queried from the user), or you can write a java plugin, that can
>> query the user during the running of the report.
>>
>>
>> this ties into Jasperreports (java)
>> http://sourceforge.net/projects/jasperreports
>>
>> which can produce and output reports in a number of different
>> formats.
>>
>> PDF/HTML/EXCEL/XML/ Whatever
>>
>>
>>
>> or go to
>> www.oracle.com
>> find "JDeveloper", this is a complete IDE written in java.
>>
>> I would guess , completing your task could be done in a morning , in
>> JDeveloper.
>>
>> if you are using ORACLE database, I can get you started, with any
>> help you need, on any of the above. if you are using another database
>> i cannot help too much.
>>
>>
>>
>> steve
>
>

On Wed, 8 Sep 2004 23:42:59 +0800, Thomas G. Marshall wrote
(in article <7MF%c.7318$AB6.6775@trndny04>):

> Mark Wright coughed up:
>> One joyful day (Wed, 08 Sep 2004 06:08:12 GMT to be precise), "Thomas
>> G. Marshall" <. com>
>> decided that the Usenet community would benefit from this remarkable
>> comment:
>>
>>> .....While being exceedingly careful to remain thread-safe. Swing
>>> is not thread safe.
>>
>> True, but provided all threaded Swing access is done via
>> EventQueue.invokeLater() you shouldn't have any problems updating a
>> GUI from threads.
>
>
> Ah, sure, and very good point for the OP. But that's not what I was
> responding do. Steve's post:
>
> Steve:
> the trick with java is all in the threads, most bad
> developers try to do everything in 1 thread, ( usually
> the graphics thread), so they end up with shitty ,slow
> programs. which they then blame on the java. The
> idea is to launch multiple threads , so that operations
> do not block each other & bog your application down.
>
> You, he, and I are correct. But his statement of (Para-Ph) "not doing
> everything in the graphics thread" and "launch[ing] multiple threads" needs
> a strong thread safety caveat, particularly for the OP who claims to have no
> GUI experience.
>
> ...[snip]...
>
>
>

I have seen programmers, stick calls to load files & 2,000 rows of database ,
actually in a button listener.
then wonder why the button stays "selected", until the calls return.
and we will not even discuss , status bars, and how a java app can "exit" but
still be running.

You might be interested in Scribe:

www.gestalt.com/Scribe

Login: guest
Password: star

It will let you query the databases graphically, drill down the hierarchy of
data, and many other things, as well as do your own coding in Java.

Alex Molochnikov
Gestalt Corporation

"Love Rhino" <> wrote in message
news: om...
> Hello there.
>
> I have 10+ years doing C/C++/Unix development writing
> databases, compilers, and network software. I have
> a few years of Java experience.
>
> I need to write a GUI application for the fairly recent
> versions of Windows (NT, XP, 2000...). Since I'm all about
> interoperability, I'm thinking about using Java to do it.
> I don't have *any* GUI experience, nor Windows experience.
>
> My worry is that Java Swing isn't ideal for me. Many
> developers I've talked to, and website reviews I've read,
> say it's slow and overly complex for very simple things.
>
> I'm wondering if that's just old news, and the latest
> version of Swing addresses those problems? If not, can
> you recommend other alternatives to Swing, that are
> reasonably fast and portable?
>
> My project is straight forward. Provide some buttons
> for users to query a database, and display the data.
> Some of the queries may require the user for specific
> dates, amounts, etc. Provide some forms for users to
> add data to a database. Later versions, I would like
> the data to be displayed on a spreadsheet like table
> and to be able to left/right click the cell for futher
> drill downs, but that's later versions. My boss wants
> a proof of concept, right now that doesn't look
> ugly.
>
> I'm thinking about going the VB route, but my Unix
> intuition says to stay away. The better solution is to
> give the project to a GUI guy.
>
> Anyways, any suggestions would be great. Thanks for
> your time!

steve coughed up:
> On Wed, 8 Sep 2004 23:42:59 +0800, Thomas G. Marshall wrote
> (in article <7MF%c.7318$AB6.6775@trndny04>):
>
>> Mark Wright coughed up:
>>> One joyful day (Wed, 08 Sep 2004 06:08:12 GMT to be precise),
>>> "Thomas G. Marshall"
>>> <. com> decided that
>>> the Usenet community would benefit from this remarkable comment:
>>>
>>>> .....While being exceedingly careful to remain thread-safe. Swing
>>>> is not thread safe.
>>>
>>> True, but provided all threaded Swing access is done via
>>> EventQueue.invokeLater() you shouldn't have any problems updating a
>>> GUI from threads.
>>
>>
>> Ah, sure, and very good point for the OP. But that's not what I was
>> responding do. Steve's post:
>>
>> Steve:
>> the trick with java is all in the threads, most bad
>> developers try to do everything in 1 thread, ( usually
>> the graphics thread), so they end up with shitty ,slow
>> programs. which they then blame on the java. The
>> idea is to launch multiple threads , so that operations
>> do not block each other & bog your application down.
>>
>> You, he, and I are correct. But his statement of (Para-Ph) "not
>> doing everything in the graphics thread" and "launch[ing] multiple
>> threads" needs a strong thread safety caveat, particularly for the
>> OP who claims to have no GUI experience.
>>
>> ...[snip]...
>>
>>
>>
>
> I have seen programmers, stick calls to load files & 2,000 rows of
> database ,

LOL. Scary, isn't it?


> actually in a button listener.
> then wonder why the button stays "selected", until the calls return.
> and we will not even discuss , status bars, and how a java app can
> "exit" but still be running.

Oh criminey yes, I've seen that as well. But I've also seen the following
ad-infinitum:

guiThingy.mutate();

from multiple threads. Or as I brought up in another thread, the even less
obvious, far more insidious:

guiThreadSafeThingy.set(guiThreadSafeThingy.get() + 1);

which even though the methods are thread safe, the increment between calls
is not.


--
Everythinginlifeisrealative.Apingpongballseemssmal luntilsomeoneramsitupyourn
ose.

Andrew Thompson <> scribbled the following:
> On Wed, 08 Sep 2004 21:25:20 GMT, Thomas G. Marshall wrote:
>> Heck, I was born into the English language, and I'm about as bad as they get
>> ...

> I was almost going to mention earlier,
> that I get help from a lot of people with
> 'foreign sounding' names, and assume they
> grew up in America or Britain because
> they can correct my grammar, ..only to
> discover later that they had never as
> much as visited either country.

Because of my good knowledge of written English, I've been thought as a
British woman living in Finland. I've responded by telling that I'm
neither British nor a woman.

--
/-- Joona Palaste () ------------- Finland --------\
\-- http://www.helsinki.fi/~palaste --------------------- rules! --------/
"I am looking for myself. Have you seen me somewhere?"
- Anon

On 25 Sep 2004 09:09:14 GMT, Joona I Palaste wrote:

> Because of my good knowledge of written English, I've been thought as a
> British woman living in Finland.

I get mistaken for British by most other Aussies!

> I've responded by telling that I'm
> neither British nor a woman.

What do you mean by, '..nor a woman'?




--
Ms. Andrew Thompson
http://www.PhySci.org/codes/ Web & IT Help
http://www.PhySci.org/ Open-source software suite
http://www.1point1C.org/ Science & Technology
http://www.lensescapes.com/ Images that escape the mundane

"Joona I Palaste" <> wrote in message
news:cj3cjq$bn$...
> Andrew Thompson <> scribbled the following:
> > On Wed, 08 Sep 2004 21:25:20 GMT, Thomas G. Marshall wrote:
> >> Heck, I was born into the English language, and I'm about as bad as
they get
> >> ...
>
> > I was almost going to mention earlier,
> > that I get help from a lot of people with
> > 'foreign sounding' names, and assume they
> > grew up in America or Britain because
> > they can correct my grammar, ..only to
> > discover later that they had never as
> > much as visited either country.
>
> Because of my good knowledge of written English, I've been thought as a
> British woman living in Finland. I've responded by telling that I'm
> neither British nor a woman.
>

Ah but coding's different, it's more like poetry than prose and modern
English (language) poetry comes from all corners of the globe. Some can be
rather hard to understand, but the better stuff (both code and poetry) has
patterns to it that tend to make me smile.

e.g.
http://notjustbeerandpubs.com/tomleo...ferences.shtml

or even, http://www.yclusa.org/article/articleview/1570/1/294

Michael Saunby

"Joona I Palaste" <> wrote in message
news:cj3cjq$bn$...

>
> Because of my good knowledge of written English, I've been thought as a
> British woman living in Finland. I've responded by telling that I'm
> neither British nor a woman.


Nor an empire.

(If that's too obscure, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Roman_Empire)