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Sun vs. Microsoft JVMs

 
 
taylorius
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      07-29-2004
Hi,

I have been looking for statistics on the penetration of Sun's JVM
vs. Microsoft's (in the context of applet viewing in a web browser).
To what extent is the Sun JVM taking over from Microsoft's? (and to
what extent do people have no JVM)

If anyone has any information, or pointers to any data, I would be
most grateful.

Regards


Matt Taylor
 
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Mickey Segal
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      07-29-2004
"taylorius" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) om...
> I have been looking for statistics on the penetration of Sun's JVM
> vs. Microsoft's (in the context of applet viewing in a web browser).
> To what extent is the Sun JVM taking over from Microsoft's? (and to
> what extent do people have no JVM)


I don't have any hard data, but what I have seen for many doctors in
hospitals in several countries (for Windows users) is that about two thirds
use the MS JVM, about one third use the Sun JVM, and I haven't seen the
Netscape JVM or the absence of a JVM in years. This represents a big
increase for the Sun JVM in the past year or two. If you are doing applets,
want universal access and have no control over the user's environment you
need to support Java 1.1 as well as the Sun JVM for the foreseeable future.


 
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Roedy Green
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      07-29-2004
On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 09:35:15 -0400, "Mickey Segal"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote or quoted :

>I don't have any hard data, but what I have seen for many doctors in
>hospitals in several countries (for Windows users) is that about two thirds
>use the MS JVM, about one third use the Sun JVM, and I haven't seen the
>Netscape JVM or the absence of a JVM in years. This represents a big
>increase for the Sun JVM in the past year or two. If you are doing applets,
>want universal access and have no control over the user's environment you
>need to support Java 1.1 as well as the Sun JVM for the foreseeable future.


one the other paw, continuing to do this is being a Quisling, helping
Microsoft destroy Java.

--
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
Coaching, problem solving, economical contract programming.
See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/jgloss.html for The Java Glossary.
 
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Michael Borgwardt
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      07-29-2004
Roedy Green wrote:
> one the other paw, continuing to do this is being a Quisling,


Thinking of investing in Google stocks, Roedy?
 
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Mickey Segal
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      07-29-2004
"Roedy Green" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> one the other paw, continuing to do this is being a Quisling, helping
> Microsoft destroy Java.


One of the annoying parts about keeping code at Java 1.1 to support the MS
JVM is that Sun has introduced changes to Java that make life difficult
those using Java 1.1 code.

One example is requiring use of Java 2 to turn on text antialiasing. Mike
Smith came up with a nice workaround to this problem at:
http://www.smithvalley.com/test/aademo.htm


 
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Roedy Green
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      07-29-2004
On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 16:49:19 +0200, Michael Borgwardt
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote or quoted :

>> one the other paw, continuing to do this is being a Quisling,

>
>Thinking of investing in Google stocks, Roedy?


I don't understand the connection.

Google is plans to invest billions in schemes to tag photos with RDF
meta-information, something Immuexa is working on. Google bought out
Picassa, one of Immuexa's competitors. Immuexa is partly paying me in
stock.

See http://storymill.com

I am always writing to Google with ideas to speed up or otherwise
improve their service.

A couple of days ago MS announced it was going to get into the
business as well.

--
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
Coaching, problem solving, economical contract programming.
See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/jgloss.html for The Java Glossary.
 
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Grant Wagner
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      07-29-2004
Roedy Green wrote:

> On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 09:35:15 -0400, "Mickey Segal"
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote or quoted :
>
> >I don't have any hard data, but what I have seen for many doctors in
> >hospitals in several countries (for Windows users) is that about two thirds
> >use the MS JVM, about one third use the Sun JVM, and I haven't seen the
> >Netscape JVM or the absence of a JVM in years. This represents a big
> >increase for the Sun JVM in the past year or two. If you are doing applets,
> >want universal access and have no control over the user's environment you
> >need to support Java 1.1 as well as the Sun JVM for the foreseeable future.

>
> one the other paw, continuing to do this is being a Quisling, helping
> Microsoft destroy Java.


According to the Java advocates I've read:

- Microsoft tried to destroy Java and failed,
- the use of Java is more widespread then ever,
- 99.999% of jobs on somejobwebsiteorother.com are Java related, and
- no one anywhere, ever, has used .NET.

Now you're telling me that Microsoft is destroying Java.

It's all so confusing.

--
Grant Wagner <(E-Mail Removed)>

 
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Steven J Sobol
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      07-29-2004
Grant Wagner <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> According to the Java advocates I've read:
>
> - Microsoft tried to destroy Java and failed,
> - the use of Java is more widespread then ever,
> - 99.999% of jobs on somejobwebsiteorother.com are Java related, and
> - no one anywhere, ever, has used .NET.
>
> Now you're telling me that Microsoft is destroying Java.
>
> It's all so confusing.


I don't think that making an applet 1.1-compatible necessarily equates to
"helping Microsoft destroy Java." First, there is a huge base of installed
browsers that only runs 1.1. Second, although I would love to be able to write
Java2 applets and have them just work, the 1.4.2 JVM is a 15MB download if you
just grab the JRE. This isn't an issue with Mozilla, Opera and other browsers
that allow you to download the JRE as part of the browser package, but it is
an issue with Internet Exploder, and IE still has lots and lots of market
share.

I wish MS and Sun would just come to some kind of agreement that would let
MS ship Java2 with Windows and Internet Exploder, but it's not going to happen.
The people running MS have huge egos, and so do the people at Sun, and both
camps are unwilling to work together. I know this is, in large part, due to
prior Microsoft behavior, but the end result is that if you use IE or plain-
vanilla Windows, it's extra work to get Java applets and applications to run.

I am going to distribute some applications I'm working on using an installer
that bundles the JVM. Unfortunately, that doesn't work for applets...

--
JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (463 / http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed)
PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.
 
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P.Hill
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      07-29-2004
Grant Wagner wrote:
> According to the Java advocates I've read:
>
> - Microsoft tried to destroy Java and failed,
> - the use of Java is more widespread then ever,
> - 99.999% of jobs on somejobwebsiteorother.com are Java related, and
> - no one anywhere, ever, has used .NET.
>
> Now you're telling me that Microsoft is destroying Java.
>
> It's all so confusing.


Think of that old MS VM as an old mine leftover from a previous battle.
It might still cause trouble if treated in the wrong way.

FWIW, "helping MS Destroy" does NOT suggest it IS destroying Java.
Another interpretation of the same sentence is that they'd like to destroy
it and are working on it, but not necessarily succeeding, so
would welcome the help.

Resist the urge to give them any help. There are serious problems for
economic and technological development, and the operation of markets when one
organization has a near monopoly of the market -- any market -- be it
railroads, steel, banks, aluminum, media, airplane ticketing,
desktop OSes etc. But I guess that is another newsgroup.

-Paul

 
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Jim Cochrane
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      07-29-2004
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, Steven J Sobol wrote:
> Grant Wagner <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> According to the Java advocates I've read:
>>
>> - Microsoft tried to destroy Java and failed,
>> - the use of Java is more widespread then ever,
>> - 99.999% of jobs on somejobwebsiteorother.com are Java related, and
>> - no one anywhere, ever, has used .NET.
>>
>> Now you're telling me that Microsoft is destroying Java.
>>
>> It's all so confusing.

>
> I don't think that making an applet 1.1-compatible necessarily equates to
> "helping Microsoft destroy Java." First, there is a huge base of installed
> browsers that only runs 1.1. Second, although I would love to be able to write
> Java2 applets and have them just work, the 1.4.2 JVM is a 15MB download if you
> just grab the JRE. This isn't an issue with Mozilla, Opera and other browsers
> that allow you to download the JRE as part of the browser package, but it is
> an issue with Internet Exploder, and IE still has lots and lots of market
> share.
>
> I wish MS and Sun would just come to some kind of agreement that would let
> MS ship Java2 with Windows and Internet Exploder, but it's not going to happen.
> The people running MS have huge egos, and so do the people at Sun, and both
> camps are unwilling to work together. I know this is, in large part, due to
> prior Microsoft behavior, but the end result is that if you use IE or plain-
> vanilla Windows, it's extra work to get Java applets and applications to run.


The last I heard, Sun and MS had decided to cooperate, including wrt Java,
more than in the past. However, I haven't dug into the details nor have
I kept up on the latest news (although I believe the outcome implies,
at least, that MS will be including a JVM [though not necessarily 1.4]
in all current and future releases of its desktop OSs). Am I wrong or
out of date?

--
Jim Cochrane; (E-Mail Removed)
[When responding by email, include the term non-spam in the subject line to
get through my spam filter.]
 
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