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Roedy please respect the netiquette

 
 
John Charlois
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      06-04-2004
Dear Roedy (and all the other misbehaving in this group),

First : english is not my native language, please
argue on the content of my post, not on the english
mistake I make.

My point is very simple : Roedy is *not* respecting
the netiquette.

And I'll demonstrate it here. And hope that he will
act accordingly.

I use the newsgroups a lot : but I never ever post
a single message. I post this one, exceptionally,
because I'm really ****ed off by your behavior here.

You don't respect the netiquette at all, and still
give "advice" to people you find misbehave.

I use groups.google.com to find technical answers to
my problems.

About every single message posted in this newsgroup
has some response saying "please, see ... mindprod.com".

So, first thing : I find this site completely ugly and
totally overbloated. But this is personal. I'm sure
many people like it. Just like many people like
Bruce Eeckel's "Thinking in Java"... Well, I don't.
I find it "too much". Not bad, simply "too verbose".
I find the same about your site (moreover, already
told, I find it ugly).

But that's not the problem.

Already now many of the message you posted contain
links to your site that aren't working anymore
(because, for sure, you "reorganised" your mess in
something less messy : or more ?).

May I ask what happens when you decide to stop
paying for your mindprod.com domain name ?

Well, what happens is simple : countless people
looking for infos find useless post saying
"see mindprod.com/xxx/yyy/zzz" and the links
are of course not working.

But, you'll argue that you'll pay forever
for you site right !? (and, btw, also not
reorganize another time all the links) !?

Ok : you have a car crash tomorrow or
whatever... What happens ?

Exactly what I describe : countless results
(15.000 result for "see mindprob"
in comp.lang.java.programmer so far)
linking to a non-existent site anymore.

Now, of course, I cannot say that you can't
post your "see mindprob 'spam' " (yeah, I know,
I don't know what spam is and I should really
go see "mindprob.com/spam/whatever). That's
why I wrote 'spam' between " ' ". It's not
really spam, it's "roedy's special trick".

Your posts in this group totally annoys me
and I think you have a *huge* ego problem for
spending your life posting "see mindprod". But
I recognize that many may find it useful
(though not when accessing your posts
from groups.google.com or another archiving
service).

You can post your "see mindprod stuff".

But please, respect the netiquette will you ?

Configure your newsreader (your such a good
programmer you should be able to do it) so
that your message get the appropriate NNTP
header so that they are *not* ever archived
anymore by groups.google.com and the other
Usenet archiving services.

For such the "lesson giver" you are, I am
sure you will agree with this one.

You may argue however you want, but I you
die tomorrow, all your f*scking 15.000 messages
archived in comp.lang.java.programmer becomes
completely useless (not counting all the messages
that are already useless due to broken links).

When I look for infos in groups.google.com, I
have to add a "-mindprod" to discard your non
working junk links ffs !

So, Roedy, thanks for respecting the Netiquette,

John


P.S : the fact that you disagree with my bad
language (but it's your attitude that inspirates
those words, sorry, can't resist), the fact
that you disagree with my feeling towards your
ugly overbloated site, etc. is *not* the point.

The point is you are *not* respecting the
Netiquette. Thanks for adding the appropriate
NNTP headers in your future posts.
 
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Roedy Green
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Posts: n/a
 
      06-04-2004
On 3 Jun 2004 20:21:09 -0700, http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) (John Charlois)
wrote or quoted :

>
>Well, what happens is simple : countless people
>looking for infos find useless post saying
>"see mindprod.com/xxx/yyy/zzz" and the links
>are of course not working.


If you want, you can get yourself a local mirror copy of the website,
and keep it automatically up to date. see
http://mindprod.com/products.html#SITE

The same questions get asked over and over and over. How could I
answer with nothing but a link if that were not so? If I did as you
suggest, I would add many useless megabytes to the newsgroups that
most people would have read many times before. It is thus more
considerate to post only a link.

Further, at the link I have the full benefit of colour and HTML to
explain my point, and to link to many related issues. I can give you
downloadable source, intact, unlike the mess newsreaders make of it.
I can't do that directly in the newsgroups.

Further, the website is constantly updated. If I learn something new,
you get the freshest info. If I posted directly on the newsgroup,
erroneous information would be out there forever misleading people.

The website is broken up into many small chunks. I am constantly
working at keeping the size of each chunk down. That way you can get
to what you need quickly, and if that is not what you want rapidly
find other related topics.

I find the alternative FAQ format much more difficult to use. You
pretty well have to read the whole thing beginning to end to find what
you want.

You may have heard an old proverb, don't look a gift horse in the
mouth. It takes hundreds of hours every month to main the website.
That does not generate a penny,(though actually it now has generated a
grand total of $1.00 in donations, which does not even offset direct
costs.)

I'm always interested in hearing ideas to improve the glossary, but I
don't see what you are doing as that.



--
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
Coaching, problem solving, economical contract programming.
See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/jgloss.html for The Java Glossary.
 
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Roedy Green
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      06-04-2004
On 3 Jun 2004 20:21:09 -0700, (E-Mail Removed) (John Charlois)
wrote or quoted :


>Your posts in this group totally annoys me
>and I think you have a *huge* ego problem for
>spending your life posting "see mindprod". B


How would my ego be any different if I quoted the material at the link
longhand?

Where's the ego? Having the nerve to think I know the answer?

Would you prefer I remain silent when I have a canned answer waiting?
No I know what you want. You want us to answer YOUR questions out
longhand, but not bore you with answers to questions you are not
interested in. You are the ultimate egotist.

It would be far more egotistical to dump megabytes of repetitious
answers on the public who have heard it all many times before.

You see this only from your newbie point of view. You forget that
everyone else has heard these answers hundreds of times before. Even
hearing the LINKS to them again and again is irritating.


There will be ever a new crop of newbies to be weaned to look thing up
for themselves. The first step is giving them links to follow rather
than totally spoon feeding them.


Finally you will find the quality of my answers on the website are
better than the ones I do off the cuff in the newsgroups. I know I am
answering for many people, not just one newbie. I am also answering
for people who know how to use Google.

The Google folks like my website even if you do not. I find when I go
to look something up, it often takes me back to my own website. I get
emails asking me what I did that gets my rankings up so high.



--
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
Coaching, problem solving, economical contract programming.
See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/jgloss.html for The Java Glossary.
 
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ak
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-04-2004
> So, first thing : I find this site completely ugly and
> totally overbloated. But this is personal. I'm sure
> many people like it. Just like many people like
> Bruce Eeckel's "Thinking in Java"... Well, I don't.
> I find it "too much". Not bad, simply "too verbose".
> I find the same about your site (moreover, already
> told, I find it ugly).


> Exactly what I describe : countless results
> (15.000 result for "see mindprob"
> in comp.lang.java.programmer so far)
> linking to a non-existent site anymore.


thats it John! I found his page very useful, you not.
Should we ask 15000 other humans about it?

--
http://uio.dev.java.net
http://reader.imagero.com


 
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Roedy Green
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      06-04-2004
On 3 Jun 2004 20:21:09 -0700, (E-Mail Removed) (John Charlois)
wrote or quoted :

>First : english is not my native language, please
>argue on the content of my post, not on the english
>mistake I make.


Are you saying I did criticise your English or that you don't want me
to? If I did, I apologise. I am usually the one who goes to bat for
those who post in languages other than in English or in broken
English. I am a dedicated internationalist. I usually smack down
anyone who suggests they are superior just because they were born in
North America.



--
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
Coaching, problem solving, economical contract programming.
See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/jgloss.html for The Java Glossary.
 
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Roedy Green
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      06-04-2004
On 3 Jun 2004 20:21:09 -0700, (E-Mail Removed) (John Charlois)
wrote or quoted :

>Ok : you have a car crash tomorrow or
>whatever... What happens ?


It says on my site exactly what happens. The site reverts to the
public domain on my death (which has been a Damocletian sword hanging
over my head since 1985). You would find mirrors springing up because
many people have local copies of it kept totally up to date by the
Replicator. However, without me to maintain it, it would within a
year or two become useless, and someone else would take on the job of
maintaining it, perhaps... It is a pretty thankless job. Few people
believe me when I tell them I do it for altruistic motives and ascribe
all manner of evil motivation, e.g. that it is a wildly lucrative
enterprise, or that I seduce virgins by the truckload lured by the
scent of fresh Java, or that I get some sort of egotistical pleasure
by astonishing everyone that I have canned answers to newbie questions
that have been answered a hundred times before.

There are now lots of alternatives to the Java Glossary. You would
probably find Jon would get busy importing the best parts of it to his
Wiki.

I find your concern about the demise of the Java glossary somewhat
disingenuous when you hold such a low opinion of it.

If the material were still available anywhere, Google would sniff it
out. All you need are the key words.

--
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
Coaching, problem solving, economical contract programming.
See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/jgloss.html for The Java Glossary.
 
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Tony Morris
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Posts: n/a
 
      06-04-2004
<two-cents>
What a load of babble.
Why don't you write it on a piece of paper, put it in a bottle, and throw it
into the sea, since it is "poor etiquette" to post your rubbish on a
newsgroup.

I don't like the look of Roedy Green's site either - in fact, I come across
information on there that is blatantly incorrect. But why babble about it?
Do you have issues? Roedy makes an effort to answer your questions. He
creates a website that answers many of the commonly asked questions. So
which part of this is a problem?
If he dies tomorrow, the site becomes useless .... blah blah what the f$%k
are you talking about again?

Seriously, fire a few neurons around, and stop wasting bandwidth with
mindless *******s.
</two-cents>

*Note that two-cents rounds down to nothing in Australia.

--
Tony Morris
(BInfTech, Cert 3 I.T.)
Software Engineer
(2003 VTR1000F)
Sun Certified Programmer for the Java 2 Platform (1.4)
Sun Certified Developer for the Java 2 Platform


 
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=?ISO-8859-15?Q?Fr=E9d=E9ric_G=E9din?=
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-04-2004
John Charlois wrote:

>
> My point is very simple : Roedy is *not* respecting
> the netiquette.
>


Hi John

As a simple user of this newsgroup, I have some trouble to understand how
Roedy is not respecting the netiquette.

Does Roedy get some money when someone clicks on his site?
Personally, I went there several time, got useful information but did not
pay anything for it. So I do not consider this as advertising.

My understanding is that Roedy's site is another repository to find answers
to questions. In addition, Roedy's answers very often to questions in this
newgroup and I can understand that this is very time consuming. So I can
understand if the answer directs me to a page where he took some more time
to explains things as clearly as possible. I addition,if Roedy use this
way of answering to questions in this newsgroup, he has more time to answer
to other questions

Frederic

 
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Andy Fish
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      06-04-2004

>
> My understanding is that Roedy's site is another repository to find

answers
> to questions. In addition, Roedy's answers very often to questions in this
> newgroup and I can understand that this is very time consuming. So I can
> understand if the answer directs me to a page where he took some more time
> to explains things as clearly as possible. I addition,if Roedy use this
> way of answering to questions in this newsgroup, he has more time to

answer
> to other questions
>


I think Roedy's site is a useful resource and the fact that he often points
us at bits we didn't know about already (or possibly writes/updates sections
in response to questions) is a bonus.

Let's not forget that 5 years ago, when deja news went under and lost
control of the usenet archive, we had to live without it for a while.
Currently the only source of this information is google - a commercial
company. We can argue all we like about who "owns" the usernet archive but
let's not pretend google is under any obligation to maintain it for free.

when google starts charging 5 cents a search and roedy's site is still free,
you might be glad of it.

Andy



 
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xarax
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      06-04-2004
Please don't feed the trolls.


 
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