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XFORMS

 
 
Roedy Green
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      05-17-2004
I have been highly annoyed at the way HTML forms have taken over data
entry. How inept!, not telling until you finished page about your
errors, then erasing half your data and making you start again!

Phooey. I have heard XFORMS is supposed to make it a tiny bit better.

Does anyone know which browsers support XFORMS?

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Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
Coaching, problem solving, economical contract programming.
See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/jgloss.html for The Java Glossary.
 
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Sudsy
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      05-17-2004
Roedy Green wrote:
> I have been highly annoyed at the way HTML forms have taken over data
> entry. How inept!, not telling until you finished page about your
> errors, then erasing half your data and making you start again!
>
> Phooey. I have heard XFORMS is supposed to make it a tiny bit better.


Roedy,
Take a chill pill, man! The browser environment is not the same as an
application environment. While JavaScript can permit the validation of
field data as you enter it, many people turn it off. And a well-designed
form framework won't lose previously entered data.
Struts addresses both of these issues with the validator. It can even
generate JavaScript to validate fields before submission to the server.
So check out what can be achieved today rather than seeking the "latest
and greatest" new thingy. I don't know about you but I don't like being
on the "bleeding edge"...too painful!

 
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Andrew Thompson
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      05-17-2004
On Mon, 17 May 2004 06:50:38 -0400, Sudsy wrote:

(form validation)
> Struts addresses both of these issues with the validator. It can even
> generate JavaScript to validate fields before submission to the server.


That's handy. I keep looking at my
own pages thinking how they could
be improved with a bit (here and
everywhere) of DHTML that degrades
gracefully. JS is also great for
instant form validation.

--
Andrew Thompson
http://www.PhySci.org/ Open-source software suite
http://www.PhySci.org/codes/ Web & IT Help
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Roedy Green
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      05-17-2004
On Mon, 17 May 2004 06:50:38 -0400, Sudsy <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote or quoted :

> Take a chill pill, man! The browser environment is not the same as an
>application environment. While JavaScript can permit the validation of
>field data as you enter it, many people turn it off. And a well-designed
>form framework won't lose previously entered data.
> Struts addresses both of these issues with the validator. It can even
>generate JavaScript to validate fields before submission to the server.
>So check out what can be achieved today rather than seeking the "latest
>and greatest" new thingy. I don't know about you but I don't like being
>on the "bleeding edge"...too painful!


I get angry about his because we had better data validation on the
Apple ][ with version 1 of Abundance than you get today. Forms has
been such a giant step backwards in data entry.

Even keypunches were smarter.


--
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
Coaching, problem solving, economical contract programming.
See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/jgloss.html for The Java Glossary.
 
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Virgil Green
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      05-17-2004
"Roedy Green" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Mon, 17 May 2004 06:50:38 -0400, Sudsy <(E-Mail Removed)>
> wrote or quoted :
>
> > Take a chill pill, man! The browser environment is not the same as an
> >application environment. While JavaScript can permit the validation of
> >field data as you enter it, many people turn it off. And a well-designed
> >form framework won't lose previously entered data.
> > Struts addresses both of these issues with the validator. It can even
> >generate JavaScript to validate fields before submission to the server.
> >So check out what can be achieved today rather than seeking the "latest
> >and greatest" new thingy. I don't know about you but I don't like being
> >on the "bleeding edge"...too painful!

>
> I get angry about his because we had better data validation on the
> Apple ][ with version 1 of Abundance than you get today. Forms has
> been such a giant step backwards in data entry.


While I willingly work in it, I dislike the entire browser paradigm of data
entry. I like to refer to it as 1960s technology. I've always believed that
as the developer gained greater control over the UI (via GUIs) that they
also had a greater responsibility to communicate to the user. When we had
screen/record-level control, we provided screen/record-level responses.
Since we've achieved keystroke-level control, we should provide responses at
the same level. The UIs state should change as needed (can't hit Submit
until the data is valid) within the practical limits imposed by performance
requirements. The whole FORM-based entry irritates me, especially coupled
with stateless transactions -- 1960s technology.

Javascript and/or DHTML can provide some level of keystroke-level response,
but javascript can be turned off and you still have to write all the
validation at the backend *as well* because the data stream between the
client and the host is easily faked and the host should never rely upon
validation that was done at the client.

- Virgil


 
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