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market comparisons of JSP vs. others?

 
 
Digital Puer
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      07-25-2003
does anyone know of a site showing market penetration comparisons
of server-side scripting technologies? I'm particularly looking
for the market shares of JSP, ASP, Cold Fusion, PHP, CGI, and
any others.

Thank you for any information.
 
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asj
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      07-25-2003
Digital Puer wrote:
>
> does anyone know of a site showing market penetration comparisons
> of server-side scripting technologies? I'm particularly looking
> for the market shares of JSP, ASP, Cold Fusion, PHP, CGI, and
> any others.
>
> Thank you for any information.



pretty hard to track that i would think, but the popularity would
probably be:

PHP > ASP > Cold Fusion/JSP > CGI

i did read awhiles back that PHP is growing much faster than anything
else and had surpassed the popularity of asp.
 
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Roger
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      07-25-2003
Virtualy impossible!

Firstly serious sites do as much as possible to hide the detail of thier
sites, fequently making them appear as somthing else. For example, if
using php they may give the files asp extensions and tell the php
processor to process files with .asp extensions. In reality most
apparent 'clues' are not obligatory and may be reconfigured.

Secondly, it is very common to use multiple technologies. There is no
reason why multiple modules may not be activated in a server, and a
document may contain different scripts and xml tags which get elaborated
by different modules as it goes througth the works.

Usually this occurs on things like fully laden portal pages were
elements may come from different work groups, or where a particular
facility is not practical with the framework which is generally preffered.

It is possible possible for dynamic content to serve up additional
dynamic content, providing you can control the evaluation order! More
commonly this will be server side modding client side script however.

Another approach to doing surveys is the marketing companies who survey
corporations, but of course they are surveying market sectors in a
manner that interests thier subscribers, which can be extremely
misleading if used casually. Certianly, vendors like to say they are
e.g. widely placed in the fortune 100, but that also means they could
well be very unsuitable tools for smaller outfits!

Next problem.....If you ask people what they use they are likely to
respond with the platform they have invested most in. Very often that is
NOT the system that is actually getting most of the work done, a
situation very widespread in the IT industry as a whole!

You could look at "activity". For example, newsgroup activity can
indicate that a solution is in widespread use, but penalises solutions
which are easier to use and deply. Support sites and eZines are often
taken as an indicator as to the popularity of a solution. Unfortunately
most major vendors know this and have followed Microsofts lead in
spending a significant part od thier R&D budgets in "evangelism", aka
spin that is primarily orientated towards generating large quantities of
articles and material in trade mags and eZines.

Just to throw a last spanner into the works, there is a lot of "Open"
stuff out there that is not commercially "marketed" or promoted and yet
they are often market leaders, such as Apache.

Oh, and another note......how do you judge market penetration? Number of
servers? That means the Littleville Gardening club server on a domestic
ADSL line with an enthusiastic student web smith counts the same as a
Google front end. What about domains? In terms of volume the bulk of
domains live on domain hosting servers which althogth offering active
servises hardly ever actually use, and the individual domains probably
only get a few hits each week. It has long been noted that 99% of
internet traffic travels througth 1% of the domains!

So, lets be more sophisticated, lets make a rating based on server
traffic? OK, that could be valid for comparing the routers, and maybe
the web server, but not so much for dynamic page generation. Archive and
download sites have large traffic but the server side scripting tends to
be limited to a few menial tasks such as logins and site searches, a
far cry from top-noth eCommerce sites such as Amazon where scripts are
analysing you and making suggestions evry inch of the way.

Last resort. What about counting the number of server side instruction
executed. Thatt's a good technique, but nobody is counting them. And
thank goodness, if code counters became the metric then we would be
lamblasted with spin telling us that splitting complex instructions into
several smaller ones makes our code more robust, and the code generation
wizards in commercial products would take the concept of bloatware into
new realms!

So....ahem..... there s no answer!

But what is your REAL question? Why do you want to know?

Maybe there is an answer for that



Digital Puer wrote:
> does anyone know of a site showing market penetration comparisons
> of server-side scripting technologies? I'm particularly looking
> for the market shares of JSP, ASP, Cold Fusion, PHP, CGI, and
> any others.
>
> Thank you for any information.


 
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Roger
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      07-25-2003
http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) (Digital Puer) wrote in message news:<(E-Mail Removed). com>...
> does anyone know of a site showing market penetration comparisons
> of server-side scripting technologies? I'm particularly looking
> for the market shares of JSP, ASP, Cold Fusion, PHP, CGI, and
> any others.
>
> Thank you for any information.


Virtualy impossible!

Firstly serious sites do as much as possible to hide the detail of
thier sites, fequently making them appear as somthing else. For
example, if using php they may give the files asp extensions and tell
the php processor to process files with .asp extensions. In reality
most apparent 'clues' are not obligatory and may be reconfigured.

Secondly, it is very common to use multiple technologies. There is no
reason why multiple modules may not be activated in a server, and a
document may contain different scripts and xml tags which get
elaborated by different modules as it goes througth the works.

Usually this occurs on things like fully laden portal pages were
elements may come from different work groups, or where a particular
facility is not practical with the framework which is generally
preffered.

It is possible possible for dynamic content to serve up additional
dynamic content, providing you can control the evaluation order! More
commonly this will be server side modding client side script however.

Another approach to doing surveys is the marketing companies who
survey corporations, but of course they are surveying market sectors
in a manner that interests thier subscribers, which can be extremely
misleading if used casually. Certianly, vendors like to say they are
e.g. widely placed in the fortune 100, but that also means they could
well be very unsuitable tools for smaller outfits!

Next problem.....If you ask people what they use they are likely to
respond with the platform they have invested most in. Very often that
is NOT the system that is actually getting most of the work done, a
situation very widespread in the IT industry as a whole!

You could look at "activity". For example, newsgroup activity can
indicate that a solution is in widespread use, but penalises solutions
which are easier to use and deply. Support sites and eZines are often
taken as an indicator as to the popularity of a solution.
Unfortunately most major vendors know this and have followed
Microsofts lead in spending a significant part od thier R&D budgets in
"evangelism", aka spin that is primarily orientated towards generating
large quantities of articles and material in trade mags and eZines.

Just to throw a last spanner into the works, there is a lot of "Open"
stuff out there that is not commercially "marketed" or promoted and
yet they are often market leaders, such as Apache.

Oh, and another note......how do you judge market penetration? Number
of servers? That means the Littleville Gardening club server on a
domestic ADSL line with an enthusiastic student web smith counts the
same as a Google front end. What about domains? In terms of volume the
bulk of domains live on domain hosting servers which althogth offering
active servises hardly ever actually use, and the individual domains
probably only get a few hits each week. It has long been noted that
99% of internet traffic travels througth 1% of the domains!

So, lets be more sophisticated, lets make a rating based on server
traffic? OK, that could be valid for comparing the routers, and maybe
the web server, but not so much for dynamic page generation. Archive
and download sites have large traffic but the server side scripting
tends to be limited to a few menial tasks such as logins and site
searches, a far cry from top-noth eCommerce sites such as Amazon where
scripts are analysing you and making suggestions evry inch of the way.

Last resort. What about counting the number of server side instruction
executed. Thatt's a good technique, but nobody is counting them. And
thank goodness, if code counters became the metric then we would be
lamblasted with spin telling us that splitting complex instructions
into several smaller ones makes our code more robust, and the code
generation wizards in commercial products would take the concept of
bloatware into new realms!

So....ahem..... there s no answer!

But what is your REAL question? Why do you want to know?

Maybe there is an answer for that
 
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Sudsy
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      07-26-2003
asj wrote:
> Digital Puer wrote:
>
>>does anyone know of a site showing market penetration comparisons
>>of server-side scripting technologies? I'm particularly looking
>>for the market shares of JSP, ASP, Cold Fusion, PHP, CGI, and
>>any others.
>>
>>Thank you for any information.

>
>
>
> pretty hard to track that i would think, but the popularity would
> probably be:
>
> PHP > ASP > Cold Fusion/JSP > CGI
>
> i did read awhiles back that PHP is growing much faster than anything
> else and had surpassed the popularity of asp.


An interesting observation. Sorry, but I just don't buy it!
What did PHP originally stand for? Personal Home Page. As a
server-side solution, it's dwarfed by the capabilities and
robustness of other technologies.
So, apart from being an obvious PHP booster, where, exactly,
are you getting those numbers from?

 
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asj
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      07-26-2003
Sudsy wrote:

> An interesting observation. Sorry, but I just don't buy it!
> What did PHP originally stand for? Personal Home Page. As a
> server-side solution, it's dwarfed by the capabilities and
> robustness of other technologies.
> So, apart from being an obvious PHP booster, where, exactly,
> are you getting those numbers from?



PHP booster? i'm a java developer!
you have to realize that the popularity of a technology is not tied to
its "capabilities" or "robustness"...of those he listed, J2EE obviously
is the most robust and enterprise capable, but that does not mean it's
the most popular. PHP is an open source technology that is tightly
integrated with apache, the world's most dominant web server. as an
example, the hosting company i use offers servlets/jsp for a small fee,
BUT PHP comes free with the plan...so, unless you're a java developer,
which exactly would you choose? the vast majority of web projects do not
require MVC, or EJBs, or whatever...it simply needs some dynamic page
generation and connection to a database.

with regards to where i saw that news that PHP became the most popular
and fastest growing web scripting language, i'll have to dig, cause that
news article was quite a while back, but it was posted in the PHP groups
so that might be a place to start.
 
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Roedy Green
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Posts: n/a
 
      07-27-2003
On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 02:17:33 -0400, Sudsy <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote or quoted :

>So, apart from being an obvious PHP booster, where, exactly,
>are you getting those numbers from?


The local WEAV web user group is big on PHP. It is simple enough that
even novices have half a chance of getting something working just by
copying another's work with theme and variations.

I went to a PHP workshop. I was impressed by the terse way you could
specify the common actions.

--
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
Coaching, problem solving, economical contract programming.
See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/jgloss.html for The Java Glossary.
 
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Bruce Lewis
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Posts: n/a
 
      07-28-2003
asj <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:

> with regards to where i saw that news that PHP became the most popular
> and fastest growing web scripting language, i'll have to dig, cause that
> news article was quite a while back, but it was posted in the PHP groups
> so that might be a place to start.


They constantly cite installation statistics as if they were usage
statistics. Nobody really knows what the usage is.

--
"Notwithstanding fervent argument that patent protection is essential
for the growth of the software industry, commentators have noted
that `this industry is growing by leaps and bounds without it.'"
-- US Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens, March 3, 1981.
 
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