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Re: MVC Model 2 vs Struts

 
 
Jason
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      07-21-2003
I'm going to preface this by saying that I'm not generally speaking a
fan of frameworks. I'm not a fan of frameworks because the tradeoff
of having some of the work done for me doesn't usually offset the pain
I have to put up with to use the framework.

I do not use a framework (as such) on the project on which I am
currently working. We do have a framework though I would call it more
of a toolbox than a framework. The framework we use doesn't automate
any tasks what it does do is remove the need to write code for often
repeated tasks such as connecting to a database, or reporting an
exception, or handling user authentication and verification (something
that is very important on this project)

Bottom line when looking at anything, tool, process or otherwise, "If
the activity you are about to undertake promotes the ultimate goal of
putting usable software in front of your users then it's a good thing
and should be retained. If it does not, it's a bad thing and should
be removed from your process."

Just my 2 krupplenicks on the subject.

"WJ" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:<Cb3Sa.21752$zy.16771@fed1read06>...
> We are working on a web project that is designed using the MVC Model 2
> architecture. We started it almost 2 years ago and that seemed to be the
> most popular and successful web model.
>
> Now some in my group (mostly managers) are pushing for a move to Struts,
> including taglibs and tiles. I've read a book and 1/2 so far. taglibs and
> tiles are very cool. If I was going to start a project from scratch, I'd
> consider struts. But retrofitting an existing application to use struts
> does not seem very cost effective to me. We don't need internationalization
> and I don't see what we'll gain, other than being buzz-word compliant.
>
> Are there any articles that discuss the pros and cons of both MVC and
> Struts? If I just haven't seen the light, I would like to. In the past
> (mostly with other technologies) I've used frameworks and eventually
> regretted them.

 
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tk
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      07-22-2003
> Struts has a pretty steep learning curve for most people. I've been using
> it for over 2 yeras now on most java web apps I build. Your question: MVC


Can you be more specific on what part of struts had the biggest learning
curve? We worked on it for over a year (got laid off from the last job
where we did it) but it's been a little bit of time since I worked on it.
I seem to recall the actual act of familiarizing one's self with the actions
and forms as well as the forwards and form mappings were not too bad. We
had a bigger problem with the thin-client than we did with the middle/db
tiers Our biggest learning curves was in learning the tag libs and
the (ughh) JavaScript that we had to use in our JSPs.

Cool thing about struts was that once the initial understanding of how the
actions and forms interacted thru the controller was accomplished, much of
it resulted in cut/paste. Although last time I worked with it, I recall
the struts-config.xml file was getting HUGE in our application because we
literally had a few hundred actions and forms (our app was huge) and we
wanted to be able to have struts-config.xml include other config.xml files
but struts did not support that as of last year. Does it support it now?

> do. With XDoclet, you do not need to manage the struts-mapping.xml file;


In one/two sentances, what does XDoclet allow you to do? This is something
I need to check into.

thanks, Theron



 
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Peter Schoaff
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      07-22-2003
"tk" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:<(E-Mail Removed)>...

> In one/two sentances, what does XDoclet allow you to do? This is something
> I need to check into.


You put special javadoc parms in your code like

@struts.form name="FredForm"

or

@struts.action name="FredAction" path=... etc.

XDoclet parses the java files and creates the xml files based on these tags.
 
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Andrew S.
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      07-22-2003
"tk" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:<(E-Mail Removed)>...
> > Struts has a pretty steep learning curve for most people. I've been using
> > it for over 2 yeras now on most java web apps I build. Your question: MVC

>
> Can you be more specific on what part of struts had the biggest learning
> curve? We worked on it for over a year (got laid off from the last job
> where we did it) but it's been a little bit of time since I worked on it.
> I seem to recall the actual act of familiarizing one's self with the actions
> and forms as well as the forwards and form mappings were not too bad. We
> had a bigger problem with the thin-client than we did with the middle/db
> tiers Our biggest learning curves was in learning the tag libs and
> the (ughh) JavaScript that we had to use in our JSPs.
>
> Cool thing about struts was that once the initial understanding of how the
> actions and forms interacted thru the controller was accomplished, much of
> it resulted in cut/paste. Although last time I worked with it, I recall
> the struts-config.xml file was getting HUGE in our application because we
> literally had a few hundred actions and forms (our app was huge) and we
> wanted to be able to have struts-config.xml include other config.xml files
> but struts did not support that as of last year. Does it support it now?
>
> > do. With XDoclet, you do not need to manage the struts-mapping.xml file;

>
> In one/two sentances, what does XDoclet allow you to do? This is something
> I need to check into.
>
> thanks, Theron


Since Struts is a framework there are several levels of abstraction
which allow you to extend the framework. The hard part (for me) is
figuring out how those abstraction layers work together.
Conceptually it all makes sense (see numerout articles) but you want
to know the details so you can add your extensions at the appropriate
places.

Your example of handling actionform and action is the logical starting
point since that is the basic service Struts provides. But that is
just the starting point.

Andrew
 
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