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Pastor Dave
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-28-2005
Hi,

I was just checking out Thunderbird with news groups
and I'm seeing a serious lack of settings. I'm not
trying to slam it, mind you. I know it's free and all
and maybe I'm missing something, but it seems to be
lacking a number of things. I normally use Agent, so
you can get an idea of what I'm used to. But I though
it might be nice to try Thunderbird for news groups.

I can't even delete messages. I hit the delete key
while a message is highlighted and it says I can't
cancel messages that are not my own. All I want
to do is make it go away in my reader. I don't want a
pile of messages that I know I am not going to read.
The very first thing I do in Agent, is delete the
threads that I know I'm not going to read. Is that
possible in TBird?

I don't see any way to tell it to automatically expand
the threads when it gets the messages. I don't like
having to click on each thread.

Also, it doesn't seem to download the bodies of
the messages, if they're still in a collapsed folder.
I did set it to get them for offline use. I didn't
know that was an option.

It seems the difference between "Reply" and "Reply All"
is not how many news groups it responds to (which is
what I thought it would be), but rather, whether or not
it also sends an email to the poster, in addition to
the news groups.

I started my investigation with just these questions.
Am I missing something, or are these things just
missing? I like the look and feel of TBird and if I
can use it, I will. But there are some important
functions (to me) that I need and Agent has them.
But I am not really nuts about the look of Agent.

You guys have been helpful with my other messages
and I appreciate it and thanks in advance.

--

Pastor Dave

Silence in the Face of Doctrinal Criticism is Suicide

http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/solution.html

http://tinyurl.com/ce97m
 
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Scott Nelson
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-28-2005


Pastor Dave wrote:

> I can't even delete messages. I hit the delete key
> while a message is highlighted and it says I can't
> cancel messages that are not my own. All I want
> to do is make it go away in my reader. I don't want a
> pile of messages that I know I am not going to read.
> The very first thing I do in Agent, is delete the
> threads that I know I'm not going to read. Is that
> possible in TBird?


Simply set your View setting to Unread. Any messages that you have read
will be invisible. If you want to see it again, change the View setting
to All.

--
http://www.treasuredude.net.tc
http://pie.midco.net/treasuredude/
 
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Moz Champion
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-28-2005
Pastor Dave wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I was just checking out Thunderbird with news groups
> and I'm seeing a serious lack of settings. I'm not
> trying to slam it, mind you. I know it's free and all
> and maybe I'm missing something, but it seems to be
> lacking a number of things. I normally use Agent, so
> you can get an idea of what I'm used to. But I though
> it might be nice to try Thunderbird for news groups.
>
> I can't even delete messages. I hit the delete key
> while a message is highlighted and it says I can't
> cancel messages that are not my own. All I want
> to do is make it go away in my reader. I don't want a
> pile of messages that I know I am not going to read.
> The very first thing I do in Agent, is delete the
> threads that I know I'm not going to read. Is that
> possible in TBird?
>
> I don't see any way to tell it to automatically expand
> the threads when it gets the messages. I don't like
> having to click on each thread.
>
> Also, it doesn't seem to download the bodies of
> the messages, if they're still in a collapsed folder.
> I did set it to get them for offline use. I didn't
> know that was an option.
>
> It seems the difference between "Reply" and "Reply All"
> is not how many news groups it responds to (which is
> what I thought it would be), but rather, whether or not
> it also sends an email to the poster, in addition to
> the news groups.
>
> I started my investigation with just these questions.
> Am I missing something, or are these things just
> missing? I like the look and feel of TBird and if I
> can use it, I will. But there are some important
> functions (to me) that I need and Agent has them.
> But I am not really nuts about the look of Agent.
>
> You guys have been helpful with my other messages
> and I appreciate it and thanks in advance.
>


It would be better if you asked one question at a time, but here goes

TB doesnt 'keep' the messages you see unless you are downloading for
offline use.
You cant 'delete' messages in news groups not your own because the
purpose of a news reader is to show you what exists on the server, and
you cant delete other peoples messages on the server.

As someone else mentions you can use the View menu to show only those
messages you want

TB doesnt download messages unless you set it to download them for
offline use.

Reply All is to the newsgroup and the poster. Its NOT intended for
crossposting between various groups, that depends on the message you are
replying to, and how it is set. I suggest that you DONT reply to
messages that are cross-posted.
 
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Pastor Dave
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-28-2005
On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 09:19:48 GMT, Moz Champion
<(E-Mail Removed)> spake thusly:


<Responses moved to appropriate sections
of message for ease of following>

>> I was just checking out Thunderbird with news groups
>> and I'm seeing a serious lack of settings. I'm not
>> trying to slam it, mind you. I know it's free and all
>> and maybe I'm missing something, but it seems to be
>> lacking a number of things. I normally use Agent, so
>> you can get an idea of what I'm used to. But I thought
>> it might be nice to try Thunderbird for news groups.
>>
>> I can't even delete messages. I hit the delete key
>> while a message is highlighted and it says I can't
>> cancel messages that are not my own. All I want
>> to do is make it go away in my reader. I don't want a
>> pile of messages that I know I am not going to read.
>> The very first thing I do in Agent, is delete the
>> threads that I know I'm not going to read. Is that
>> possible in TBird?

>
>You cant 'delete' messages in news groups not your
>own because the purpose of a news reader is to show
>you what exists on the server, and you cant delete
>other peoples messages on the server.


I am not trying to delete them off of the server.
I simply don't want them on my screen. I do
this in Agent every day. I just finished doing it.


>As someone else mentions you can use the View
>menu to show only those messages you want


I don't know what I want, until I see them. At that
point, it sounds like a lot of tagging work to use the
View feature. I work quickly with my fingers and
mostly by keyboard. I only use the mouse when
I'm clicking on "Send", or "Retrieve messages"
or something. I just start on one message, hold
down shift and hit the down arrow until I'm at the last
message I want to delete and then I hit the delete key.
Takes me about 2 or 3 seconds.


>> I don't see any way to tell it to automatically expand
>> the threads when it gets the messages. I don't like
>> having to click on each thread.
>>
>> Also, it doesn't seem to download the bodies of
>> the messages, if they're still in a collapsed folder.
>> I did set it to get them for offline use. I didn't
>> know that was an option.

>
>TB doesnt 'keep' the messages you see unless
>you are downloading for offline use.
>
>TB doesnt download messages unless you set
>it to download them for offline use.


I do have it set for offline use (see above). My
statement was that it isn't getting the ones that
are below the initial message in a collapsed thread.


>> It seems the difference between "Reply" and "Reply All"
>> is not how many news groups it responds to (which is
>> what I thought it would be), but rather, whether or not
>> it also sends an email to the poster, in addition to
>> the news groups.

>
>Reply All is to the newsgroup and the poster. Its NOT
>intended for crossposting between various groups,
>that depends on the message you are replying to,
>and how it is set.


It would seem to me that this is exactly what
"Reply All" would be for. Replying to "all" news
groups. That's what it does in Agent. Otherwise,
shouldn't it be, "Reply Both" as in both news
groups and email?


>I suggest that you DONT reply to messages that
>are cross-posted.


Almost all news group messages are cross posted
and you don't always know which group someone is
posting from, so in order to make sure they see it,
you need to include all groups and then try to trim
it back once you know where they are.

--

Pastor Dave

Silence in the Face of Doctrinal Criticism is Suicide

http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/solution.html

http://tinyurl.com/ce97m
 
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Scott Nelson
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-28-2005


Pastor Dave wrote:

> I don't know what I want, until I see them. At that
> point, it sounds like a lot of tagging work to use the
> View feature. I work quickly with my fingers and
> mostly by keyboard. I only use the mouse when
> I'm clicking on "Send", or "Retrieve messages"
> or something. I just start on one message, hold
> down shift and hit the down arrow until I'm at the last
> message I want to delete and then I hit the delete key.
> Takes me about 2 or 3 seconds.


When View is set to Unread, the next time you go into a newsgroup, all
messages that you have already looked at will be hidden. Only the ones
you haven't read will be visible. After I look at all the messages I
want, I simply mark the whole group as Read (right click on newsgroup
and select Mark Newsgroup Read). The next time I get into the
newsgroup, only the messages that are new since I was there last are
visible. This method also only takes about 2 or 3 seconds.

Scott
--
http://www.treasuredude.net.tc
http://pie.midco.net/treasuredude/
 
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Doug G
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-28-2005
Pastor Dave wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 09:19:48 GMT, Moz Champion
> <(E-Mail Removed)> spake thusly:
>
>
> <Responses moved to appropriate sections
> of message for ease of following>
>
>>> I was just checking out Thunderbird with news groups
>>> and I'm seeing a serious lack of settings. I'm not
>>> trying to slam it, mind you. I know it's free and all
>>> and maybe I'm missing something, but it seems to be
>>> lacking a number of things. I normally use Agent, so
>>> you can get an idea of what I'm used to. But I thought
>>> it might be nice to try Thunderbird for news groups.
>>>
>>> I can't even delete messages. I hit the delete key
>>> while a message is highlighted and it says I can't
>>> cancel messages that are not my own. All I want
>>> to do is make it go away in my reader. I don't want a
>>> pile of messages that I know I am not going to read.
>>> The very first thing I do in Agent, is delete the
>>> threads that I know I'm not going to read. Is that
>>> possible in TBird?

>>
>>You cant 'delete' messages in news groups not your
>>own because the purpose of a news reader is to show
>>you what exists on the server, and you cant delete
>>other peoples messages on the server.

>
> I am not trying to delete them off of the server.
> I simply don't want them on my screen. I do
> this in Agent every day. I just finished doing it.
>
>
>>As someone else mentions you can use the View
>>menu to show only those messages you want

>
> I don't know what I want, until I see them. At that
> point, it sounds like a lot of tagging work to use the
> View feature. I work quickly with my fingers and
> mostly by keyboard. I only use the mouse when
> I'm clicking on "Send", or "Retrieve messages"
> or something. I just start on one message, hold
> down shift and hit the down arrow until I'm at the last
> message I want to delete and then I hit the delete key.
> Takes me about 2 or 3 seconds.
>
>
>>> I don't see any way to tell it to automatically expand
>>> the threads when it gets the messages. I don't like
>>> having to click on each thread.
>>>
>>> Also, it doesn't seem to download the bodies of
>>> the messages, if they're still in a collapsed folder.
>>> I did set it to get them for offline use. I didn't
>>> know that was an option.

>>
>>TB doesnt 'keep' the messages you see unless
>>you are downloading for offline use.
>>
>>TB doesnt download messages unless you set
>>it to download them for offline use.

>
> I do have it set for offline use (see above). My
> statement was that it isn't getting the ones that
> are below the initial message in a collapsed thread.
>
>
>>> It seems the difference between "Reply" and "Reply All"
>>> is not how many news groups it responds to (which is
>>> what I thought it would be), but rather, whether or not
>>> it also sends an email to the poster, in addition to
>>> the news groups.

>>
>>Reply All is to the newsgroup and the poster. Its NOT
>>intended for crossposting between various groups,
>>that depends on the message you are replying to,
>>and how it is set.

>
> It would seem to me that this is exactly what
> "Reply All" would be for. Replying to "all" news
> groups. That's what it does in Agent. Otherwise,
> shouldn't it be, "Reply Both" as in both news
> groups and email?
>
>
>>I suggest that you DONT reply to messages that
>>are cross-posted.

>
> Almost all news group messages are cross posted
> and you don't always know which group someone is
> posting from, so in order to make sure they see it,
> you need to include all groups and then try to trim
> it back once you know where they are.
>


If you select View > Threads > Threads with Unread, the next time you
open the group that's all you'll see. Each newsgroup has its own View
setting.

Thunderbird's "Reply" sends the reply to all newsgroups listed in the
post's "Newsgroups" header. "Reply All" sends the reply to all
newsgroups in the "Newsgroups" header plus the poster's e-mail address.

I've never used Agent, so I don't know how it works.
 
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Moz Champion
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-29-2005
Pastor Dave wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 09:19:48 GMT, Moz Champion
> <(E-Mail Removed)> spake thusly:
>
>
> <Responses moved to appropriate sections
> of message for ease of following>
>
>>>I was just checking out Thunderbird with news groups
>>>and I'm seeing a serious lack of settings. I'm not
>>>trying to slam it, mind you. I know it's free and all
>>>and maybe I'm missing something, but it seems to be
>>>lacking a number of things. I normally use Agent, so
>>>you can get an idea of what I'm used to. But I thought
>>>it might be nice to try Thunderbird for news groups.
>>>
>>>I can't even delete messages. I hit the delete key
>>>while a message is highlighted and it says I can't
>>>cancel messages that are not my own. All I want
>>>to do is make it go away in my reader. I don't want a
>>>pile of messages that I know I am not going to read.
>>>The very first thing I do in Agent, is delete the
>>>threads that I know I'm not going to read. Is that
>>>possible in TBird?

>>
>>You cant 'delete' messages in news groups not your
>>own because the purpose of a news reader is to show
>>you what exists on the server, and you cant delete
>>other peoples messages on the server.

>
>
> I am not trying to delete them off of the server.
> I simply don't want them on my screen. I do
> this in Agent every day. I just finished doing it.
>
>
>
>>As someone else mentions you can use the View
>>menu to show only those messages you want

>
>
> I don't know what I want, until I see them. At that
> point, it sounds like a lot of tagging work to use the
> View feature. I work quickly with my fingers and
> mostly by keyboard. I only use the mouse when
> I'm clicking on "Send", or "Retrieve messages"
> or something. I just start on one message, hold
> down shift and hit the down arrow until I'm at the last
> message I want to delete and then I hit the delete key.
> Takes me about 2 or 3 seconds.
>
>
>
>>>I don't see any way to tell it to automatically expand
>>>the threads when it gets the messages. I don't like
>>>having to click on each thread.
>>>
>>>Also, it doesn't seem to download the bodies of
>>>the messages, if they're still in a collapsed folder.
>>>I did set it to get them for offline use. I didn't
>>>know that was an option.

>>
>>TB doesnt 'keep' the messages you see unless
>>you are downloading for offline use.
>>
>>TB doesnt download messages unless you set
>>it to download them for offline use.

>
>
> I do have it set for offline use (see above). My
> statement was that it isn't getting the ones that
> are below the initial message in a collapsed thread.
>
>
>
>>>It seems the difference between "Reply" and "Reply All"
>>>is not how many news groups it responds to (which is
>>>what I thought it would be), but rather, whether or not
>>>it also sends an email to the poster, in addition to
>>>the news groups.

>>
>>Reply All is to the newsgroup and the poster. Its NOT
>>intended for crossposting between various groups,
>>that depends on the message you are replying to,
>>and how it is set.

>
>
> It would seem to me that this is exactly what
> "Reply All" would be for. Replying to "all" news
> groups. That's what it does in Agent. Otherwise,
> shouldn't it be, "Reply Both" as in both news
> groups and email?
>
>
>
>>I suggest that you DONT reply to messages that
>>are cross-posted.

>
>
> Almost all news group messages are cross posted
> and you don't always know which group someone is
> posting from, so in order to make sure they see it,
> you need to include all groups and then try to trim
> it back once you know where they are.
>


I find bottom posting more conversant to ease of following. since you
deem otherwise I hope you get the assistance you require from others.
 
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Pastor Dave
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-29-2005
On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 12:05:15 GMT, Moz Champion
<(E-Mail Removed)> spake thusly:


>I find bottom posting more conversant to ease
>of following. since you deem otherwise I hope
>you get the assistance you require from others.


The proper netiquette is to post your response to
each point, below each point. That way, a person
is not scrolling up and down, to see which sentence
in their post you are responding to, with each of your
sentences. With all due respect, what you're doing
is no different than top posting.

http://www.dickalba.demon.co.uk/usen.../faq_topp.html


--

Pastor Dave

Silence in the Face of Doctrinal Criticism is Suicide

http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/solution.html

http://tinyurl.com/ce97m
 
Reply With Quote
 
Moz Champion
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-30-2005
Pastor Dave wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 12:05:15 GMT, Moz Champion
> <(E-Mail Removed)> spake thusly:
>
>
>
>>I find bottom posting more conversant to ease
>>of following. since you deem otherwise I hope
>>you get the assistance you require from others.

>
>
> The proper netiquette is to post your response to
> each point, below each point. That way, a person
> is not scrolling up and down, to see which sentence
> in their post you are responding to, with each of your
> sentences. With all due respect, what you're doing
> is no different than top posting.
>
> http://www.dickalba.demon.co.uk/usen.../faq_topp.html
>
>



There is no such thing as 'proper' netiquette.
Each group decides what it will accept or not accept, that goes for
top-posting/bottom-posting, html/no-html and editing.

In the tech support groups I attend, no-snipping makes it MUCH easier
for one to reply.

Fine and dandy, you do it YOUR way. I dont care. I told you exactly how
much assistance you would get from me by doing so, none. I dont have the
time to re-read each and every message in a thread. You dont want to
bottom-post, fine, then you can seek others assistance, as you wont get
mine. Bottom-posting (not interspersed) and no-snipping would make it
rather easier for you to get the assistance you wish, if you'd rather do
it your way, then go right ahead.
 
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Pastor Dave
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-30-2005
On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 09:25:18 GMT, Moz Champion
<(E-Mail Removed)> spake thusly:


>Pastor Dave wrote:
>> On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 12:05:15 GMT, Moz Champion
>> <(E-Mail Removed)> spake thusly:
>>
>>
>>
>>>I find bottom posting more conversant to ease
>>>of following. since you deem otherwise I hope
>>>you get the assistance you require from others.

>>
>>
>> The proper netiquette is to post your response to
>> each point, below each point. That way, a person
>> is not scrolling up and down, to see which sentence
>> in their post you are responding to, with each of your
>> sentences. With all due respect, what you're doing
>> is no different than top posting.
>>
>> http://www.dickalba.demon.co.uk/usen.../faq_topp.html

>
>
>There is no such thing as 'proper' netiquette.


Okay, if you say so. The link still exists though and
there are many more. I guess they're all wrong.


>Each group decides what it will accept or not accept, that goes for
>top-posting/bottom-posting, html/no-html and editing.


Personally, I have never seen a group that has desired
to add more clutter to the traffic and more download
time for others as a rule.


>In the tech support groups I attend, no-snipping makes it MUCH easier
>for one to reply.


It also makes it a burden for those who are using
dialup, to download the same text over and over
again, if it is not relevant to what you are responding
to. But who cares about anyone else, as long as it's
easy for you, right?


>Fine and dandy, you do it YOUR way. I dont care. I told you exactly how
>much assistance you would get from me by doing so, none.


Gee, I'm hurt.

Maybe you consider the fact that you're not the only
one in the universe who reads this stuff and that you
should consider others in your posting style.


>I dont have the time to re-read each and every message in a thread.


No one said you had to. But it seems that your goal
is to make everyone else keep scrolling up and down,
to figure out which line in your response, goes with
which line in the original message and make them
read through the entire message over and over again.

But hey, as long as it's convenient for YOU, who cares
if you're causing other people to do more work. After
all YOUR time is worth more than everyone else's. (:

And with that, I'm done. I'm not going to get involved
in a flame war. I said what I had to say.

Have a nice life.

--

Pastor Dave

Silence in the Face of Doctrinal Criticism is Suicide

http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/solution.html

http://tinyurl.com/ce97m
 
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