«

On 2005-06-01, Moz Champion <> wrote:

> Victor wrote:
>>
>> And, what you're claiming is, if Microsoft issues an "update" that crashes
>> Firefox on Windows, then Firefox is destined to the trash bin of history.

> No, if Microsoft issued an update that crashed Firefox, then the courts
> would deal with the issue (if done on purpose)
> And, the 'fix' (if there was one) would be available nonetheless.

Unfortunately, the times this has happened before (think Win-OS/2, Lotus,
DR-DOS, etc.) Microsoft has gotten off with little more than a slap on the
wrist, and has not felt any need to restain itself in future situations.

--

John ()

"John Thompson" <> wrote in message
news:...
> On 2005-06-01, Moz Champion <> wrote:
>
> > Victor wrote:
> >>
> >> And, what you're claiming is, if Microsoft issues an "update" that
crashes
> >> Firefox on Windows, then Firefox is destined to the trash bin of
history.
>
> > No, if Microsoft issued an update that crashed Firefox, then the courts
> > would deal with the issue (if done on purpose)
> > And, the 'fix' (if there was one) would be available nonetheless.
>
> Unfortunately, the times this has happened before (think Win-OS/2, Lotus,
> DR-DOS, etc.) Microsoft has gotten off with little more than a slap on the
> wrist, and has not felt any need to restain itself in future situations.
>
> John

John is 100% correct. I remember the Netscape trial - the issue came down
to, how do you prove to a jury, in a clear and convincing manner, that a
Microsoft update purposely caused an incompatibility? Remember that a jury
is composed of 12 people that couldn't get out of jury duty - and a jury
will rarely be composed of computer professionals.

Unless he's another Linux troll, "Moz Champion" is living in fantasyland. If
a busy professional updates Windows and suddenly finds that Firefox is
crashing, he/she is simply going to stop using Firefox, because someone
living in the real world that is on a deadline doesn't have the time to be
self-righteous - they will take the quickest path to getting their work
done - which means not using Firefox, and using Internet Explorer.

Those of us that remember 1998, the year Netscape died, knows this to be
true. It was death by Windows Update.

Firefox is a terrific browser, but with unrealistic people like "Moz
Champion" championing it, it doesn't stand a chance.

Vic

"Moz Champion" <> wrote in message
news:qP6ne.867383$...
> Victor wrote:
> > "Ed Mullen" <> wrote in message
> > news8mdncajcLGSwAHfRVn-...
:
> >>>*** How do we alert others if Microsoft introduced another "update"
that
> >>>causes conflicts with Firefox? ***
> >>>
> >>>Victor
> >>>
> >>
> >>I never had a crash of Netscape Communicator, nor NS7, nor any
> >>Mozilla-based app due to a Windows update.
> >>
> >>As for your question, if there's an update to a Mozilla application it
> >>will be announced on the mozilla.org Web site, on various mailing lists,
> >>in the netscape.public.mozilla and secnews.netscape.com newsgroups, on
> >>Mozillazine.org, in the press, etc. Not sure what else you're seeking.
> >
> >
> > Your referencing Mozilla updates. I'm referencing Windows updates.
> >
> > What I'm seeking is,
> > How do we alert others if MICROSOFT introduced another "update" that
causes
> > conflicts with Firefox?
> >
> I have never run into a WINDOWS update that 'broke' Netscape
> Communicator either

It was 1998.

> In the unlikely event one does occur, news would be disseminated via the
> mozilla.org web site, on various mailing lists, and in the newsgroups.
> Most likely pointing to a 'fix'.

That would be nice. But what you're saying is that there is no targeted
effort to look for this.

> I doubt Microsoft would be able to
> 'get away' with such a feat anyway, considering the court cases it went
> through involving such aspects. The possibllity is rather remote.

Yeah, as we all know, Microsoft hasn't been able to get away with anything,
have they ? That's why they're such a small company...

John Thompson wrote:
> On 2005-06-01, Moz Champion <> wrote:
>
>
>>Victor wrote:
>>
>>>And, what you're claiming is, if Microsoft issues an "update" that crashes
>>>Firefox on Windows, then Firefox is destined to the trash bin of history.
>
>
>>No, if Microsoft issued an update that crashed Firefox, then the courts
>>would deal with the issue (if done on purpose)
>>And, the 'fix' (if there was one) would be available nonetheless.
>
>
> Unfortunately, the times this has happened before (think Win-OS/2, Lotus,
> DR-DOS, etc.) Microsoft has gotten off with little more than a slap on the
> wrist, and has not felt any need to restain itself in future situations.
>

Again, I have never ran accross a Windows update that crashed Netscape,
or any other current program.

Victor wrote:
> "John Thompson" <> wrote in message
> news:...
>
>>On 2005-06-01, Moz Champion <> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Victor wrote:
>>>
>>>>And, what you're claiming is, if Microsoft issues an "update" that
>
> crashes
>
>>>>Firefox on Windows, then Firefox is destined to the trash bin of
>
> history.
>
>>>No, if Microsoft issued an update that crashed Firefox, then the courts
>>>would deal with the issue (if done on purpose)
>>>And, the 'fix' (if there was one) would be available nonetheless.
>>
>>Unfortunately, the times this has happened before (think Win-OS/2, Lotus,
>>DR-DOS, etc.) Microsoft has gotten off with little more than a slap on the
>>wrist, and has not felt any need to restain itself in future situations.
>>
>>John
>
>
> John is 100% correct. I remember the Netscape trial - the issue came down
> to, how do you prove to a jury, in a clear and convincing manner, that a
> Microsoft update purposely caused an incompatibility? Remember that a jury
> is composed of 12 people that couldn't get out of jury duty - and a jury
> will rarely be composed of computer professionals.
>
> Unless he's another Linux troll, "Moz Champion" is living in fantasyland. If
> a busy professional updates Windows and suddenly finds that Firefox is
> crashing, he/she is simply going to stop using Firefox, because someone
> living in the real world that is on a deadline doesn't have the time to be
> self-righteous - they will take the quickest path to getting their work
> done - which means not using Firefox, and using Internet Explorer.
>
> Those of us that remember 1998, the year Netscape died, knows this to be
> true. It was death by Windows Update.
>
> Firefox is a terrific browser, but with unrealistic people like "Moz
> Champion" championing it, it doesn't stand a chance.
>
> Vic
>
>
>
>
>
>

I never ran accros a Windows update that crashed Netscape.

Your claims to the contary are not proven. What update crashed
Netscape? I was online in 1998 and no update crashed my Netscape at all.

Victor wrote:
> "Moz Champion" <> wrote in message
> news:qP6ne.867383$...
>
>>Victor wrote:
>>
>>>"Ed Mullen" <> wrote in message
>>>news8mdncajcLGSwAHfRVn-...
>
> :
>
>>>>>*** How do we alert others if Microsoft introduced another "update"
>
> that
>
>>>>>causes conflicts with Firefox? ***
>>>>>
>>>>>Victor
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I never had a crash of Netscape Communicator, nor NS7, nor any
>>>>Mozilla-based app due to a Windows update.
>>>>
>>>>As for your question, if there's an update to a Mozilla application it
>>>>will be announced on the mozilla.org Web site, on various mailing lists,
>>>>in the netscape.public.mozilla and secnews.netscape.com newsgroups, on
>>>>Mozillazine.org, in the press, etc. Not sure what else you're seeking.
>>>
>>>
>>>Your referencing Mozilla updates. I'm referencing Windows updates.
>>>
>>>What I'm seeking is,
>>>How do we alert others if MICROSOFT introduced another "update" that
>
> causes
>
>>>conflicts with Firefox?
>>>
>>
>>I have never run into a WINDOWS update that 'broke' Netscape
>>Communicator either
>
>
> It was 1998.
>
>
>>In the unlikely event one does occur, news would be disseminated via the
>>mozilla.org web site, on various mailing lists, and in the newsgroups.
>>Most likely pointing to a 'fix'.
>
>
> That would be nice. But what you're saying is that there is no targeted
> effort to look for this.
>
>
>> I doubt Microsoft would be able to
>>'get away' with such a feat anyway, considering the court cases it went
>>through involving such aspects. The possibllity is rather remote.
>
>
> Yeah, as we all know, Microsoft hasn't been able to get away with anything,
> have they ? That's why they're such a small company...
>
>
>
>
>

Well, aint that just dandy! Gee I was onliine in 1998, and my Windows
didnt crash, and all I did was use Netscape.
What update are you speaking of exactly? You have made serious claims
here, yet have offered no evidence that there ever was a MS update (or
Windows update) that caused Netscape to crash. A cite if you will

Quoth Moz Champion <> in news:B%8ne.868030
$:

> MS has, to date, never issued an update that crashed a competitor.

You are obviously too young to remember this famous Microsoft motto:

"Windows ain't done until Lotus won't run."


--
George Bush's War of Choice on Iraq is a totally unnecessary war.
Every life lost, every limb lost, every disfigurement, every
disability caused there is more blood on George W. Bush's hands,
and on the hands of everyone who voted for George W. Bush.

"Tom Betz" <> wrote in message
news:Xns9669DD00A4365greenriverordinance@166.84.1. 69...
> Quoth Moz Champion <> in news:B%8ne.868030
> $:
>
> > MS has, to date, never issued an update that crashed a competitor.
>
> You are obviously too young to remember this famous Microsoft motto:
>
> "Windows ain't done until Lotus won't run."

I remember that one...!!!

On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 01:43:33 +0000 (UTC), Tom Betz
<> dijo:

>You are obviously too young to remember this famous Microsoft motto:
>
> "Windows ain't done until Lotus won't run."

Actually, it was "DOS isn't done until Lotus won't run." It predates
Windows by quite a while.

--
Bogus e-mail address, but I read this newsgroup regularly, so reply here.

Quoth Marek Williams <> in
news::

>
> On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 01:43:33 +0000 (UTC), Tom Betz
> <> dijo:
>
>>You are obviously too young to remember this famous Microsoft
>>motto:
>>
>> "Windows ain't done until Lotus won't run."
>
> Actually, it was "DOS isn't done until Lotus won't run." It
> predates Windows by quite a while.

You are correct sir; the brain cells that recorded this one must
have melted slightly.

--
George Bush's War of Choice on Iraq is a totally unnecessary war.
Every life lost, every limb lost, every disfigurement, every
disability caused there is more blood on George W. Bush's hands,
and on the hands of everyone who voted for George W. Bush.