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Peter Jason 03-07-2013 10:58 PM

Dodging peoples faces.
 
I use PS CS6 but I get a ugly reddish tone that I
can improve with the sponge tool but this just
washes out the color.
How can I use the Color Balance within the dodging
circle?
Peter

Tony Cooper 03-08-2013 12:25 AM

Re: Dodging peoples faces.
 
On Thu, 7 Mar 2013 15:39:45 -0800, Savageduck
<savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

>On 2013-03-07 14:58:03 -0800, Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> said:
>
>> I use PS CS6 but I get a ugly reddish tone that I
>> can improve with the sponge tool but this just
>> washes out the color.
>> How can I use the Color Balance within the dodging
>> circle?
>> Peter

>
>Since you are using CS6, I would go about it in one of two ways.
>
>If you are shooting RAW, use the adjustment brush in ACR.
>
>Otherwise if you are already in CS5/6, open a levels adjustment layer.
>Tweak to taste for the face (ignore how the adjustment effects the rest
>of the image. Add a layer mask filled with black to the adjustment
>layer and paint in the adjustment with a medium white brush. Adjust
>opacity of the adjustment layer to taste.


With all due respect, Duck, the mask suggestion is going about it the
long way. You are removing 90-some percent to adjust 10 percent.
Making a Selection is the easy way to adjust a small part of an image.

The Quick Mask is an overlooked tool. It has the same characteristics
of the Layer mask (black for including/white for erasing inclusions)
and works very well when the image is zoomed up.

Now that I think about, I don't know if Quick Mask is in CS6. It is
in mine, but I may have moved it in from an earlier version of CS. You
can do that, you know.

I use Quick Mask quite a bit...especially when cloning. I'll make a
selection of the area where the cloning is to go and then I don't have
to be precise with the clone tool. It's limited to the selected area.
Gotta remember to invert after creating the selection or the
adjustments will apply everywhere except the selected area.

I'll use the Layer Mask when the changes are to be made in a larger
area or a number of small areas. A tip there that some don't know
about is to hit the \ key when painting with black to have the painted
area show up in red. Just like when using the Quick Mask.

I like making this kind of adjustment in the opened file rather than
in RAW. I can do several layers at various settings and, by turning
on and off the layer, see which one works the best. After I make the
Selection, I save the selection in case I have to bring it into a
different layer.




--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL

Peter Jason 03-08-2013 01:45 AM

Re: Dodging peoples faces.
 
On Thu, 07 Mar 2013 19:25:57 -0500, Tony Cooper
<tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 7 Mar 2013 15:39:45 -0800, Savageduck
><savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
>
>>On 2013-03-07 14:58:03 -0800, Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> said:
>>
>>> I use PS CS6 but I get a ugly reddish tone that I
>>> can improve with the sponge tool but this just
>>> washes out the color.
>>> How can I use the Color Balance within the dodging
>>> circle?
>>> Peter

>>
>>Since you are using CS6, I would go about it in one of two ways.
>>
>>If you are shooting RAW, use the adjustment brush in ACR.
>>
>>Otherwise if you are already in CS5/6, open a levels adjustment layer.
>>Tweak to taste for the face (ignore how the adjustment effects the rest
>>of the image. Add a layer mask filled with black to the adjustment
>>layer and paint in the adjustment with a medium white brush. Adjust
>>opacity of the adjustment layer to taste.

>
>With all due respect, Duck, the mask suggestion is going about it the
>long way. You are removing 90-some percent to adjust 10 percent.
>Making a Selection is the easy way to adjust a small part of an image.
>
>The Quick Mask is an overlooked tool. It has the same characteristics
>of the Layer mask (black for including/white for erasing inclusions)
>and works very well when the image is zoomed up.
>
>Now that I think about, I don't know if Quick Mask is in CS6. It is
>in mine, but I may have moved it in from an earlier version of CS. You
>can do that, you know.
>
>I use Quick Mask quite a bit...especially when cloning. I'll make a
>selection of the area where the cloning is to go and then I don't have
>to be precise with the clone tool. It's limited to the selected area.
>Gotta remember to invert after creating the selection or the
>adjustments will apply everywhere except the selected area.
>


It seems to be called the "Quick Selection Tool"
in CS6.



>I'll use the Layer Mask when the changes are to be made in a larger
>area or a number of small areas. A tip there that some don't know
>about is to hit the \ key when painting with black to have the painted
>area show up in red. Just like when using the Quick Mask.
>
>I like making this kind of adjustment in the opened file rather than
>in RAW. I can do several layers at various settings and, by turning
>on and off the layer, see which one works the best. After I make the
>Selection, I save the selection in case I have to bring it into a
>different layer.
>
>
>
>


Peter Jason 03-08-2013 01:48 AM

Re: Dodging peoples faces.
 
On Thu, 7 Mar 2013 15:39:45 -0800, Savageduck
<savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

>On 2013-03-07 14:58:03 -0800, Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> said:
>
>> I use PS CS6 but I get a ugly reddish tone that I
>> can improve with the sponge tool but this just
>> washes out the color.
>> How can I use the Color Balance within the dodging
>> circle?
>> Peter

>
>Since you are using CS6, I would go about it in one of two ways.
>
>If you are shooting RAW, use the adjustment brush in ACR.
>
>Otherwise if you are already in CS5/6, open a levels adjustment layer.
>Tweak to taste for the face (ignore how the adjustment effects the rest
>of the image. Add a layer mask filled with black to the adjustment
>layer and paint in the adjustment with a medium white brush. Adjust
>opacity of the adjustment layer to taste.


Some groups are very hard to get right because
some people are swarthy, and babies are almost
white. Sometimes I can do two crops of the same
image to isolate each, but usually it takes a lot
of dodging, and now magnetic -lassoing.

Tony Cooper 03-08-2013 05:25 AM

Re: Dodging peoples faces.
 
On Fri, 08 Mar 2013 12:45:23 +1100, Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 07 Mar 2013 19:25:57 -0500, Tony Cooper
><tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 7 Mar 2013 15:39:45 -0800, Savageduck
>><savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On 2013-03-07 14:58:03 -0800, Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> said:
>>>
>>>> I use PS CS6 but I get a ugly reddish tone that I
>>>> can improve with the sponge tool but this just
>>>> washes out the color.
>>>> How can I use the Color Balance within the dodging
>>>> circle?
>>>> Peter
>>>
>>>Since you are using CS6, I would go about it in one of two ways.
>>>
>>>If you are shooting RAW, use the adjustment brush in ACR.
>>>
>>>Otherwise if you are already in CS5/6, open a levels adjustment layer.
>>>Tweak to taste for the face (ignore how the adjustment effects the rest
>>>of the image. Add a layer mask filled with black to the adjustment
>>>layer and paint in the adjustment with a medium white brush. Adjust
>>>opacity of the adjustment layer to taste.

>>
>>With all due respect, Duck, the mask suggestion is going about it the
>>long way. You are removing 90-some percent to adjust 10 percent.
>>Making a Selection is the easy way to adjust a small part of an image.
>>
>>The Quick Mask is an overlooked tool. It has the same characteristics
>>of the Layer mask (black for including/white for erasing inclusions)
>>and works very well when the image is zoomed up.
>>
>>Now that I think about, I don't know if Quick Mask is in CS6. It is
>>in mine, but I may have moved it in from an earlier version of CS. You
>>can do that, you know.
>>
>>I use Quick Mask quite a bit...especially when cloning. I'll make a
>>selection of the area where the cloning is to go and then I don't have
>>to be precise with the clone tool. It's limited to the selected area.
>>Gotta remember to invert after creating the selection or the
>>adjustments will apply everywhere except the selected area.
>>

>
>It seems to be called the "Quick Selection Tool"
>in CS6.


No, that's a different tool. The Quick Mask is down below the color
squares. Unclicked, it's "Edit in Standard Mode" and clicked it is
"Edit in Quick Mask Mode". Click it, choose a brush and set the brush
size and hardness, and paint over what you want to select. With the
color as black, what you paint turns red. With the color as white,
you can un-paint what you've painted. After painting in your
selection, go back to Edit in Standard Mode and your selection will be
there shown with "marching ants".

The Quick Selection Tool basically selects by color, but it will jump
to similar colors. Using the Quick Mask, you make your selection by
painting over it, so color has nothing to do with the selection. You
can get very precise using a small, hard brush or you can use a soft
brush for a feathered edge.

Get to know how to do this. Whether you use Duck's suggestion or
mine, knowing what each tool does will eventually be helpful.






>
>
>>I'll use the Layer Mask when the changes are to be made in a larger
>>area or a number of small areas. A tip there that some don't know
>>about is to hit the \ key when painting with black to have the painted
>>area show up in red. Just like when using the Quick Mask.
>>
>>I like making this kind of adjustment in the opened file rather than
>>in RAW. I can do several layers at various settings and, by turning
>>on and off the layer, see which one works the best. After I make the
>>Selection, I save the selection in case I have to bring it into a
>>different layer.
>>
>>
>>
>>

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL

Tony Cooper 03-08-2013 05:30 AM

Re: Dodging peoples faces.
 
On Thu, 7 Mar 2013 17:26:03 -0800, Savageduck
<savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

>The Quick Mask is not overlooked in my bag of tricks, but I don't use
>it much for selecting areas to be adjusted. As you say, the effort of
>selecting the area to be adjusted is similar with both methods. However
>by using an adjustment layer to make the broad adjustment, and then
>using the adjustment layer mask so I can see the effect as I paint it
>in works for me. By using a soft edged brush and reduced brush opacity
>& flow I can get very good control, but that's me.
>

While I don't reject your way, and sometimes do it that way, I really
don't like changing the image globally when I'm making an adjustment
to one fairly small area. I like to see how that area looks in
comparison to the rest of the image.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL

Tony Cooper 03-08-2013 06:05 AM

Re: Dodging peoples faces.
 
On Thu, 7 Mar 2013 18:46:23 -0800, Savageduck
<savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

>On 2013-03-07 17:48:06 -0800, Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> said:
>
>> On Thu, 7 Mar 2013 15:39:45 -0800, Savageduck
>> <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2013-03-07 14:58:03 -0800, Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> said:
>>>
>>>> I use PS CS6 but I get a ugly reddish tone that I
>>>> can improve with the sponge tool but this just
>>>> washes out the color.
>>>> How can I use the Color Balance within the dodging
>>>> circle?
>>>> Peter
>>>
>>> Since you are using CS6, I would go about it in one of two ways.
>>>
>>> If you are shooting RAW, use the adjustment brush in ACR.
>>>
>>> Otherwise if you are already in CS5/6, open a levels adjustment layer.
>>> Tweak to taste for the face (ignore how the adjustment effects the rest
>>> of the image. Add a layer mask filled with black to the adjustment
>>> layer and paint in the adjustment with a medium white brush. Adjust
>>> opacity of the adjustment layer to taste.

>>
>> Some groups are very hard to get right because
>> some people are swarthy, and babies are almost
>> white. Sometimes I can do two crops of the same
>> image to isolate each, but usually it takes a lot
>> of dodging, and now magnetic -lassoing.

>
>This is where Tony and I differ on preferred method.
>
>What you have just said is a good reason for using adjustment layers.
>As an example let's say you have an image with three different facial
>skin types present, (and that might be with three or more individuals).
>By using adjustment layers + adjustment layer masks, you can make the
>appropriate adjustments for each skin type on separate layers and paint
>in the effect on each of the faces. One layer at a time that is. ;-)


What's that? How is that different? And who says that my "preferred
method" is the Quick Mask? I don't have a "preferred method" for
this. The Quick Mask is one choice among many. I'll look at the
image, decide what I want to change, and then decide on a method.

Using the Quick Mask, I can either do three layers for three faces or
one layer with three selections. The difference is that you are
applying the adjustment globally to the entire image on each layer,
and I'm applying the adjustment to only the selected area on each
layer. I do this because I like to see the adjusted area in
comparison to the rest of the image.

Even using one layer with three selected areas, I can come back and
change the adjustment by reloading my saved selection.

>Layers are one of the most powerful features of Photoshop and it is
>well worthwhile learning as much as you can about them.


Well, yeah, but that has nothing to do with Layer Mask vs Quick Mask.
Either way, you make the adjustments on a new layer.


--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL

Robert Coe 03-08-2013 01:15 PM

Re: Dodging peoples faces.
 
On Thu, 7 Mar 2013 18:46:23 -0800, Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com>
wrote:
: On 2013-03-07 17:48:06 -0800, Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> said:
: > Some groups are very hard to get right because
: > some people are swarthy, and babies are almost
: > white. Sometimes I can do two crops of the same
: > image to isolate each, but usually it takes a lot
: > of dodging, and now magnetic -lassoing.
:
: This is where Tony and I differ on preferred method.
:
: What you have just said is a good reason for using adjustment layers.
: As an example let's say you have an image with three different facial
: skin types present, (and that might be with three or more individuals).
: By using adjustment layers + adjustment layer masks, you can make the
: appropriate adjustments for each skin type on separate layers and paint
: in the effect on each of the faces. One layer at a time that is. ;-)

Forgive my confusion, but what exactly is meant by "the appropriate
adjustments for each skin type"? Is there a compelling reason not to show
people as they actually are, assuming that you've selected a white balance
that makes sense for the overall scene?

To put it another way: If you could go back and shoot the picture again, would
you shine a different colored light in each subject's face in order to produce
the most flattering image of each? Even if you succeeded, wouldn't it look
artificial and silly if examined in any but the most cursory manner?

I don't want to join the discussion of how to use Photoshop, if for no other
reason than that it's a subject on which I'm an ignoramus. But you guys are
doing nothing to dispel an outsider's suspicion that Photoshop's vast array of
capabilities and options are both its best feature and its worst.

Bob

Peter Jason 03-09-2013 01:44 AM

Re: Dodging peoples faces.
 
On Fri, 8 Mar 2013 14:07:05 -0800, Savageduck
<savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

>On 2013-03-08 05:15:22 -0800, Robert Coe <bob@1776.COM> said:
>
>> On Thu, 7 Mar 2013 18:46:23 -0800, Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com>
>> wrote:
>> : On 2013-03-07 17:48:06 -0800, Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> said:
>> : > Some groups are very hard to get right because
>> : > some people are swarthy, and babies are almost
>> : > white. Sometimes I can do two crops of the same
>> : > image to isolate each, but usually it takes a lot
>> : > of dodging, and now magnetic -lassoing.
>> :
>> : This is where Tony and I differ on preferred method.
>> :
>> : What you have just said is a good reason for using adjustment layers.
>> : As an example let's say you have an image with three different facial
>> : skin types present, (and that might be with three or more individuals).
>> : By using adjustment layers + adjustment layer masks, you can make the
>> : appropriate adjustments for each skin type on separate layers and paint
>> : in the effect on each of the faces. One layer at a time that is. ;-)
>>
>> Forgive my confusion, but what exactly is meant by "the appropriate
>> adjustments for each skin type"? Is there a compelling reason not to show
>> people as they actually are, assuming that you've selected a white balance
>> that makes sense for the overall scene?

>
>Let's put that response into context.
>
>It seems the OP, Peter Jason has a desire to apply different
>adjustments to different faces in a group shot. The Peter indicated
>that he had a problem with this by stating the following:
>"Some groups are very hard to get right because
>some people are swarthy, and babies are almost
>white. Sometimes I can do two crops of the same
>image to isolate each, but usually it takes a lot
>of dodging, and now magnetic -lassoing."
>
>So where I said, "the appropriate adjustments for each skin type" I
>probably should have said, "the adjustments you (the OP) desire for
>each skin type".
>
>> To put it another way: If you could go back and shoot the picture again, would
>> you shine a different colored light in each subject's face in order to produce
>> the most flattering image of each? Even if you succeeded, wouldn't it look
>> artificial and silly if examined in any but the most cursory manner?

>
>...but I am not the photographer who feels that this is a problem, and
>I am not the individual seeking a solution with Photoshop. I am just
>providing what might be one of many solutions to be found in photoshop.
>
>> I don't want to join the discussion of how to use Photoshop, if for no other
>> reason than that it's a subject on which I'm an ignoramus. But you guys are
>> doing nothing to dispel an outsider's suspicion that Photoshop's vast array of
>> capabilities and options are both its best feature and its worst.
>>
>> Bob

>
>In an odd way that might well be true. However, there are times when
>one particular method to fix a problem can lead to a better result than
>another, and the same method might prove to be less satisfactory under
>different circumstances.
>Personally I would prefer to have more than a single tool in my bag of
>tricks than being locked into a single method which might work well for
>one image and not so great for another.


I have seized a copy of..
"Lynda.com Photoshop CS5 One-on-One Advanced"
and I am slowly going thru it.
Also:
I am trying to learn Adobe PremierPro, and am I
right in assuming that when split into clips, all
the photoshop methods work within a particular
clip? As far as I can tell one loads the PShop
desired adjustments (from within PremierPro) and
the adjustments then made. The clips are stored
with the PShop facilities still in the background
for later use if necessary. So that if I know
something of PS then the adjustments in PPro are
easier.


Tony Cooper 03-09-2013 03:45 AM

Re: Dodging peoples faces.
 
On Fri, 08 Mar 2013 08:15:22 -0500, Robert Coe <bob@1776.COM> wrote:

>On Thu, 7 Mar 2013 18:46:23 -0800, Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com>
>wrote:
>: On 2013-03-07 17:48:06 -0800, Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> said:
>: > Some groups are very hard to get right because
>: > some people are swarthy, and babies are almost
>: > white. Sometimes I can do two crops of the same
>: > image to isolate each, but usually it takes a lot
>: > of dodging, and now magnetic -lassoing.
>:
>: This is where Tony and I differ on preferred method.
>:
>: What you have just said is a good reason for using adjustment layers.
>: As an example let's say you have an image with three different facial
>: skin types present, (and that might be with three or more individuals).
>: By using adjustment layers + adjustment layer masks, you can make the
>: appropriate adjustments for each skin type on separate layers and paint
>: in the effect on each of the faces. One layer at a time that is. ;-)
>
>Forgive my confusion, but what exactly is meant by "the appropriate
>adjustments for each skin type"? Is there a compelling reason not to show
>people as they actually are, assuming that you've selected a white balance
>that makes sense for the overall scene?
>
>To put it another way: If you could go back and shoot the picture again, would
>you shine a different colored light in each subject's face in order to produce
>the most flattering image of each? Even if you succeeded, wouldn't it look
>artificial and silly if examined in any but the most cursory manner?
>
>I don't want to join the discussion of how to use Photoshop, if for no other
>reason than that it's a subject on which I'm an ignoramus. But you guys are
>doing nothing to dispel an outsider's suspicion that Photoshop's vast array of
>capabilities and options are both its best feature and its worst.
>
>Bob


I don't adjust skin tone, but I do adjust faces. This is Babe Ruth
baseball season, and the grandsons are playing. Photographing the
boys on the field does not always offer the choice of position
regarding the sun. Sometimes the faces are in shadow, but the overall
image is such that I can't bring up the entire image. So, I'll bring
out the face from the shadow. Not much, because I want the natural
look, but some.

My own comments regarding the use of Quick Mask vs Layer Mask were
more to do with an alternative way of applying some adjustment to a
particular area by use of a Selection. It isn't about skin tone; it's
about any non-global adjustment.

You've seen my photos, and you've seen the Duck's. Do you think we
produce "artificial and silly" results?



--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL


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