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-   -   Re: Sony tells DSLR shooters they're idiots (http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/t954817-re-sony-tells-dslr-shooters-theyre-idiots.html)

Mort 11-25-2012 02:34 AM

Re: Sony tells DSLR shooters they're idiots
 
Bowser wrote:
> On Sat, 24 Nov 2012 09:57:49 -0500, Alan Browne
> <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>
>> On 2012.11.24 05:13 , Alfred Molon wrote:
>>> http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012...-owners-youre-
>>> idiots_n_2174844.html?utm_hp_ref=technology&ir=Tec hnology

>>
>> The advert is pretty crass. Notice that all the "victims" of this jerk
>> are using Canon and Nikon cameras?
>>
>> It reminds me of the pitch by Olympus for the PEN EP-1 four-thirds
>> camera. The ads had Kevin Spacey talking about DSLR's and all the gear
>> and that "I don't want to be that guy." Much more subtle than what Sony
>> is doing with this NEX advert.
>>
>> Maybe Sony _really_ want to get away from DSLRs.
>>
>> That said, during the photowalk in Montreal I did chat with a
>> photographer (not in the photowalk) who asked why his Sekonic meter
>> wasn't giving him the same reading as his camera. I sorted him out
>> (maybe - he wanted the camera and meter to agree exactly - wasn't going
>> to happen except by chance) but found that whoever taught him about
>> exposure compensation did it from the point of view of using aperture or
>> speed priority rather than from manual settings.
>>
>> Maybe I'm old fashioned but if you're teaching exposure the baseline
>> should be manual, not semi-auto modes.

>
> Hell, when I was first shooting an SLR my "meter" was the little sheet
> of paper tha came with the film.
>


When I started, Kodachrome was ASA 10, and we used a small circular
cardboard exposure guide, e.g. sunny and no clouds = 1/60th at f 6.3.
That was not too successful, and I was pleased when the Weston meter
first was available, especially with the dome attachment for incident
readings = good for faces.

Today, I meet many people with fancy DSLR cameras who never heard of an
f stop or a shutter speed. They use them as Ph.D. cameras, = Push here
Dummy.

Mort Linder

nospam 11-25-2012 05:04 AM

Re: Sony tells DSLR shooters they're idiots
 
In article <Gwhss.401335$W63.106579@fx05.am4>, Gary Eickmeier
<geickmei@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:

> We got away with a lot of sins on exposure in the film days because of the
> latitude it had. They could correct for a few stops of exposure error. In
> digital we have instant results, but it has to be pretty much right on or
> there are problems.


it's the other way around. film has *less* latitude and is less
forgiving of errors. digital lets people be sloppy, because it's
relatively easy to fix things in post.

ASCII 11-25-2012 08:12 AM

Re: Sony tells DSLR shooters they're idiots
 
Mort wrote:
> I was pleased when the Weston meter
>first was available, especially with the dome attachment for incident
>readings


While I've seen 'dome' style incident attachments, especially on some of my
Gossens, the Weston had a sort of concave diffuser, like this:
http://www.westonmeter.org.uk/westoninvercone.htm

Anthony Polson 11-25-2012 09:24 AM

Re: Sony tells DSLR shooters they're idiots
 
"Gary Eickmeier" <geickmei@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
>"Mort" <mort@cloud9.net> wrote in message
>news:50b183a2$0$24737$607ed4bc@cv.net...
>
>> When I started, Kodachrome was ASA 10, and we used a small circular
>> cardboard exposure guide, e.g. sunny and no clouds = 1/60th at f 6.3. That
>> was not too successful, and I was pleased when the Weston meter first was
>> available, especially with the dome attachment for incident readings =
>> good for faces.
>>
>> Today, I meet many people with fancy DSLR cameras who never heard of an f
>> stop or a shutter speed. They use them as Ph.D. cameras, = Push here

>
>We got away with a lot of sins on exposure in the film days because of the
>latitude it had. They could correct for a few stops of exposure error. In
>digital we have instant results, but it has to be pretty much right on or
>there are problems.



Self-evidently you have never used slide film.



Anthony Polson 11-25-2012 09:30 AM

Re: Sony tells DSLR shooters they're idiots
 
ASCII <me2@privacy.net> wrote:

>Mort wrote:
>> I was pleased when the Weston meter
>>first was available, especially with the dome attachment for incident
>>readings

>
>While I've seen 'dome' style incident attachments, especially on some of my
>Gossens, the Weston had a sort of concave diffuser, like this:
>http://www.westonmeter.org.uk/westoninvercone.htm



It is based on an inverted cone, hence "invercone".

Clever, eh?


PeterN 11-25-2012 07:23 PM

Re: Sony tells DSLR shooters they're idiots
 
On 11/25/2012 12:04 AM, nospam wrote:
> In article <Gwhss.401335$W63.106579@fx05.am4>, Gary Eickmeier
> <geickmei@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> We got away with a lot of sins on exposure in the film days because of the
>> latitude it had. They could correct for a few stops of exposure error. In
>> digital we have instant results, but it has to be pretty much right on or
>> there are problems.

>
> it's the other way around. film has *less* latitude and is less
> forgiving of errors. digital lets people be sloppy, because it's
> relatively easy to fix things in post.
>

I find shooting in RAW gives me a two stop latitude. while you may be
right about some B&W, I don't recall color slide film being that forgiving.

--
Peter

Trevor 11-26-2012 05:58 AM

Re: Sony tells DSLR shooters they're idiots
 

"Gary Eickmeier" <geickmei@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:Gwhss.401335$W63.106579@fx05.am4...
> "Mort" <mort@cloud9.net> wrote in message
> news:50b183a2$0$24737$607ed4bc@cv.net...
>
>> When I started, Kodachrome was ASA 10, and we used a small circular
>> cardboard exposure guide, e.g. sunny and no clouds = 1/60th at f 6.3.
>> That was not too successful, and I was pleased when the Weston meter
>> first was available, especially with the dome attachment for incident
>> readings = good for faces.
>>
>> Today, I meet many people with fancy DSLR cameras who never heard of an f
>> stop or a shutter speed. They use them as Ph.D. cameras, = Push here

>
> We got away with a lot of sins on exposure in the film days because of the
> latitude it had. They could correct for a few stops of exposure error.


NOT with Kodachrome you didn't!


>In digital we have instant results, but it has to be pretty much right on
>or there are problems.


Less so than Kodachrome if you shoot RAW with any modern DSLR, and no more
so even if you insist on shooting Jpeg.

Trevor.



Trevor 11-28-2012 08:11 AM

Re: Sony tells DSLR shooters they're idiots
 

"Gary Eickmeier" <geickmei@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:LSXss.365161$Wc4.231526@fx10.am4...
> "PeterN" <peter.new@nospam.verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:50b27052$0$10770$8f2e0ebb@news.shared-secrets.com...
>
>> I find shooting in RAW gives me a two stop latitude. while you may be
>> right about some B&W, I don't recall color slide film being that
>> forgiving.

>
> Okay, okay, I was talking about color negative. It was rare that I would
> shoot slide film.


But you replied to a post specifically mentioning Kodachrome.

Even so, I find a good modern DSLR shooting RAW has just as much lattitude
as color neg film by simply dialing down exposure a stop or so to take
advantage of the lower noise. Obviously the exposure lattitude favours
overexposure for neg film, and underexposure for digital (and slide film)

Trevor.



nospam 11-29-2012 10:31 AM

Re: Sony tells DSLR shooters they're idiots
 
In article <CzAts.676216$A%.21450@fx26.am4>, Gary Eickmeier
<geickmei@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:

> I hate RAW and the processing necessary for it. Just not real intuitive and
> no standard file types and no real improvement over simpler JPEG.


the processing is the same. add photos to a decent photo app such as
lightroom and adjust the image as needed. in fact, processing raw is
exactly the same as jpeg, with generally much better results.

> I have often wondered if shooting a lower ISO is equivalent to shooting a
> higher one and adjusting exposure down by a couple of stops. Same image on
> the pixels, right?


not usually.

PeterN 11-29-2012 06:34 PM

Re: Sony tells DSLR shooters they're idiots
 
On 11/28/2012 10:24 PM, Gary Eickmeier wrote:
> "Trevor" <trevor@home.net> wrote in message
> news:k94gvl$ih9$1@speranza.aioe.org...
>
>> Even so, I find a good modern DSLR shooting RAW has just as much lattitude
>> as color neg film by simply dialing down exposure a stop or so to take
>> advantage of the lower noise. Obviously the exposure lattitude favours
>> overexposure for neg film, and underexposure for digital (and slide film)

>
> I hate RAW and the processing necessary for it. Just not real intuitive and
> no standard file types and no real improvement over simpler JPEG.
>
> I have often wondered if shooting a lower ISO is equivalent to shooting a
> higher one and adjusting exposure down by a couple of stops. Same image on
> the pixels, right?
>
> Gary Eickmeier
>
>

Make a few tests for yourself. Look carefully and color rendition and
decide.

--
Peter


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