Article on the future of Python
 

Hi all,

I though this might be of interest.

http://www.ironfroggy.com/software/i...ture-of-python

--
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.

Re: Article on the future of Python
 

On 9/25/12 4:15 AM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I though this might be of interest.
>
> http://www.ironfroggy.com/software/i...ture-of-python
>

Interesting article, but the comments of those who say "the only
language I need to know is Python" strike me as a bit limited. If this
is the case, then Python can never be moved forward, because it is
written in C.

I program in Python, C, Objective C, JavaScript, Tcl, AppleScript, and
I'm learning Perl. Python could *not* handle all the domains I target in
my projects. For instance: if I want to access Mac-native functionality
via Tkinter that isn't currently available in the library, I have to
drill down into C or Objective-C, write a wrapper that hooks in to the
primitives via Tcl's C API, then possibly write some additional Tcl code
to provide a cleaner interface, *then* write some kind of Python wrapper
that I can access in my Tkinter app.

I can understand loving the language and wanting to work just in the
language, but it's another thing entirely to call Python the One
Language to Rule Them All. (That's C, because all other languages are
implemented in it. :-) )

--Kevin

--
Kevin Walzer
Code by Kevin
http://www.codebykevin.com

Re: Article on the future of Python
 

In article <k3sbdr$jce$1@dont-email.me>,
Kevin Walzer <kw@codebykevin.com> wrote:

> the comments of those who say "the only
> language I need to know is Python" strike me as a bit limited.

I have been convinced that "X is the only language I need to know", for
many different values of X over the years.

Re: Article on the future of Python
 

On Tuesday, 25 September 2012 09:14:27 UTC+1, Mark Lawrence wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I though this might be of interest.
> http://www.ironfroggy.com/software/i...ture-of-python
> --
>
> Cheers.
> Mark Lawrence.

I glanced over the article but it seems to me another 'I am afraid this is not the silver bullet I wanted it to be' article without actually going into the need of a silver bullet or whether the concept of a silver bullet is sound at all.

--
mph

Re: Article on the future of Python
 

On Tuesday, 25 September 2012 09:14:27 UTC+1, Mark Lawrence wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I though this might be of interest.
> http://www.ironfroggy.com/software/i...ture-of-python
> --
>
> Cheers.
> Mark Lawrence.

I glanced over the article but it seems to me another 'I am afraid this is not the silver bullet I wanted it to be' article without actually going into the need of a silver bullet or whether the concept of a silver bullet is sound at all.

--
mph

Re: Article on the future of Python
 

On Tue, 25 Sep 2012 09:26:19 -0400, Kevin Walzer wrote:

> On 9/25/12 4:15 AM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I though this might be of interest.
>>
>> http://www.ironfroggy.com/software/i...the-future-of-
>> python
>>
>>
> Interesting article, but the comments of those who say "the only
> language I need to know is Python" strike me as a bit limited. If this
> is the case, then Python can never be moved forward, because it is
> written in C.

Incorrect.

IronPython in C#. Jython is written in Java. CLPython is written in Lisp.
Berp and HoPe are written in Haskell. Nuitka is written in C++. Skulpt is
written in Javascript. Vyper is written in Ocaml. PyPy is written in
RPython.

Some of those Python compilers are obsolete, unmaintained or
experimental. Others are not. But either way, it is certainly not true
that Python is written in C. One specific Python compiler happens to be
written in C, that is all.


> I program in Python, C, Objective C, JavaScript, Tcl, AppleScript, and
> I'm learning Perl. Python could *not* handle all the domains I target in
> my projects.

Unless you are writing code that operates on the bare metal (device
drivers, operating system kernels) Python probably *could*, even if it
doesn't *yet*. PyPy now allows you to write real-time video processing
filters in pure Python:

http://morepypy.blogspot.com.au/2011...in-python.html


And if performance was irrelevant, you could even write an operating
system in Python. A really slow, painful operating system, but still an
operating system.

Given a sufficiently smart compiler, and sufficiently powerful libraries,
or sufficiently low expectations, pretty much any programming language
can do anything any other language can do. Almost all of them are Turing
complete.

But of course, in practice languages differ in their power and
capabilities.


> For instance: if I want to access Mac-native functionality
> via Tkinter that isn't currently available in the library,

That "isn't currently available" part is precisely what I'm talking
about. Just because it's not available now doesn't mean it can't be made
available.


> I can understand loving the language and wanting to work just in the
> language, but it's another thing entirely to call Python the One
> Language to Rule Them All. (That's C, because all other languages are
> implemented in it. :-) )

I see your smiley, but that is factually incorrect. Not all compilers or
interpreters are written in C. Many languages are self-hosted, that is,
they are written in themselves, using some clever bootstrapping
techniques. C is neither the most powerful, the oldest, the best, or the
most fundamental language around.


--
Steven

Re: Article on the future of Python
 

On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 1:35 AM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote:
> I see your smiley, but that is factually incorrect. Not all compilers or
> interpreters are written in C. Many languages are self-hosted, that is,
> they are written in themselves, using some clever bootstrapping
> techniques. C is neither the most powerful, the oldest, the best, or the
> most fundamental language around.

Many compiled languages are bootstrapped, yes, but interpreted
languages less often so. And the bulk of implementations of the bulk
of interpreted languages seem to be implemented in C. But that's
largely because the bulk of Unix software is written in either C or a
high level language.

ChrisA

Re: Article on the future of Python
 

On Tue, 25 Sep 2012 09:26:19 -0400, Kevin Walzer <kw@codebykevin.com>
declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:

> I can understand loving the language and wanting to work just in the
> language, but it's another thing entirely to call Python the One
> Language to Rule Them All. (That's C, because all other languages are
> implemented in it. :-) )
>

Only with the demise of DEC VMS... As I recall, most of the VMS
system, including compilers and what-not, were written in BLISS
--
Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber AF6VN
wlfraed@ix.netcom.com HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

Re: Article on the future of Python
 

Kevin Walzer <kw@codebykevin.com> writes:
> language, but it's another thing entirely to call Python the One
> Language to Rule Them All. (That's C, because all other languages are
> implemented in it. :-) )

I got into a discussion about that in another newsgroup and noticed that
C seems to have been a 20th-century language that is still used for
maintaining old programs and in the embedded niche, but that very few
languages or compilers seem to have been newly implemented in C in the
current century. The main counterexample I was able to find was LuaJIT.

Re: Article on the future of Python
 

On 2012-09-25, Martin P. Hellwig <martin.hellwig@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday, 25 September 2012 09:14:27 UTC+1, Mark Lawrence wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I though this might be of interest.
>> http://www.ironfroggy.com/software/i...ture-of-python

> I glanced over the article but it seems to me another 'I am afraid
> this is not the silver bullet I wanted it to be' article

Strange. I didn't get that _at_all_ from the article.

To me it was expressing concern about what happens when the range of
"niches" where Python is a good solution falls below a certain
critical mass -- will the "Python Community" start to stagnate because
it isn't attacting new developers in the quantity or diversity that it
used to...

--
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at Imitate a WOUNDED SEAL
gmail.com pleading for a PARKING
SPACE!!