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Peabody 08-26-2012 10:36 PM

Need advice on new computer for photo/video
 
So it's time to leave XP behind, and buy a new computer before
Windows 8 arrives.

I'm going to try to get by with one computer this time - a laptop -
but am open to docking a real monitor, keyboard and mouse when
needed. Not a gamer at all, so the biggest challenge for this box
will be photo editing, plus whatever I may get into from shooting
video on my T2i - editing and format conversion, I assume.

I'm a Windows guy, and from the looking I've done, it seems to
come down to a 15" i5 Ivy Bridge dual core, or a 17" i7 Ivy Bridge
quad core.

I've never tried to edit photos on a laptop, and wonder if a laptop
display is any good for that. Can you even use a colorimeter on
them? Are laptop displays still dithered 6-bit devices instead of
real 8-bit?

If a 17' laptop display is fully useable for photo editing, it
would probably make sense to pay up for that, and not invest in a
separate monitor. But if not, I might as well save a buck and get
the 15" size - unless quad core vs dual core makes a big
difference - and then get a separate monitor.

The other big issue is graphics. Pretty much everything I'm
looking at in my budget - $750 and under - has integrated graphics,
not a separate GPU.

So I'm not a professional, and money IS an object. But I'd like
this computer to last several years.

Office Depot has a sale on a 15-inch Lenovo Thinkpad Edge E530,
i5-3210M, LED-backlit 1366x768 glossy, 6GB, 750GB 5400. Win7 Home
Premium 64-bit. $600.

Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated.


tony cooper 08-26-2012 10:48 PM

Re: Need advice on new computer for photo/video
 
On Sun, 26 Aug 2012 17:36:23 -0500, Peabody
<waybackNO746SPAM44@yahoo.com> wrote:

>So it's time to leave XP behind, and buy a new computer before
>Windows 8 arrives.
>
>I'm going to try to get by with one computer this time - a laptop -
>but am open to docking a real monitor, keyboard and mouse when
>needed. Not a gamer at all, so the biggest challenge for this box
>will be photo editing, plus whatever I may get into from shooting
>video on my T2i - editing and format conversion, I assume.
>
>I'm a Windows guy, and from the looking I've done, it seems to
>come down to a 15" i5 Ivy Bridge dual core, or a 17" i7 Ivy Bridge
>quad core.
>
>I've never tried to edit photos on a laptop, and wonder if a laptop
>display is any good for that. Can you even use a colorimeter on
>them? Are laptop displays still dithered 6-bit devices instead of
>real 8-bit?
>
>If a 17' laptop display is fully useable for photo editing, it
>would probably make sense to pay up for that, and not invest in a
>separate monitor. But if not, I might as well save a buck and get
>the 15" size - unless quad core vs dual core makes a big
>difference - and then get a separate monitor.
>
>The other big issue is graphics. Pretty much everything I'm
>looking at in my budget - $750 and under - has integrated graphics,
>not a separate GPU.
>
>So I'm not a professional, and money IS an object. But I'd like
>this computer to last several years.
>
>Office Depot has a sale on a 15-inch Lenovo Thinkpad Edge E530,
>i5-3210M, LED-backlit 1366x768 glossy, 6GB, 750GB 5400. Win7 Home
>Premium 64-bit. $600.
>
>Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated.


I'm hardly an expert in this, but I have a desktop and I have a
laptop. I would never attempt editing on my laptop. I'm an extensive
user of Photoshop. I don't think the screen display is adequate, and
how I have the laptop opened and the screen tilted seems to make an
enormous difference in the way the image looks.

I suggest you consider adding a separate monitor to your system.
Monitors are relatively inexpensive, and using two monitors (laptop
screen and second monitor) has other benefits.



--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

tony cooper 08-27-2012 12:51 AM

Re: Need advice on new computer for photo/video
 
On Sun, 26 Aug 2012 18:57:54 -0400, Alan Browne
<alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

>On 2012.08.26 18:48 , tony cooper wrote:
>
>> I suggest you consider adding a separate monitor to your system.
>> Monitors are relatively inexpensive, and using two monitors (laptop
>> screen and second monitor) has other benefits.

>
>A good monitor for photo editing starts at about $3 - $500 depending on
>size.


That would be nice. Necessary, though? I could do my editing on my
cheap, second-hand NEC second screen and not lose much. My primary
screen is available now on Amazon for $448, but I'm not doing
commercial work, magazine stuff, stock photography, or anything like
that.

I could take the same image, process it from RAW to CS4 on one screen
and then process it again from scratch on the other screen and I don't
think you could tell the difference. That includes color adjustments,
cloning, and Layer Masking.

The only difficulty I have with my laptop screen is that it's almost
impossible to open it to the same exact angle each time. A slight
change in the tilt changes things. My secondary screen is in a fixed
position.


--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

nospam 08-27-2012 01:55 AM

Re: Need advice on new computer for photo/video
 
In article <avfl38p2592gdmuodr9l6rncceb2gvgr2g@4ax.com>, tony cooper
<tony.cooper214@gmail.com> wrote:

> >> I suggest you consider adding a separate monitor to your system.
> >> Monitors are relatively inexpensive, and using two monitors (laptop
> >> screen and second monitor) has other benefits.

> >
> >A good monitor for photo editing starts at about $3 - $500 depending on
> >size.

>
> That would be nice. Necessary, though? I could do my editing on my
> cheap, second-hand NEC second screen and not lose much. My primary
> screen is available now on Amazon for $448, but I'm not doing
> commercial work, magazine stuff, stock photography, or anything like
> that.
>
> I could take the same image, process it from RAW to CS4 on one screen
> and then process it again from scratch on the other screen and I don't
> think you could tell the difference. That includes color adjustments,
> cloning, and Layer Masking.


if you use a lower quality display, your results will be worse. why do
you think pros spend money on better displays?

if your display has less accurate colour, lower contrast ratio, smaller
gamut, etc., you can't do as good of a job.

taken to extreme, try using a b/w display and see how well you can
adjust the colour balance.

> The only difficulty I have with my laptop screen is that it's almost
> impossible to open it to the same exact angle each time. A slight
> change in the tilt changes things. My secondary screen is in a fixed
> position.


you have a low quality display in your laptop.

i guess that's what happens when you buy rock bottom products.

Mayayana 08-27-2012 02:44 AM

Re: Need advice on new computer for photo/video
 
If you're handy you might consider building your own, if
you decide to go with a PC. Personally I don't know how
people can stand laptops, but most people do use them.

I built a new PC last week for about $350. I've done that
for years, with parts from TigerDirect, mostly.

Advantages of OEM: OEM PCs are relatively cheap. The companies
buy in bulk and you pay very little for the Windows copy. They
also do a lot of planning, so the particular hardware combination
thery come up with can often be very long-lived.

Advantages of building yourself: You can buy better stock
(like a decent power supply). You get more flexibility with
upgrading. (OEM tends to be barebones, with very little
upgradeability. Some, like Dell, often even have their own
hardware and connectors.) CPUs and motherboards are
fairly cheap as long as you don't get suckered into buying
the latest. (The newest is always "blazingly fast", while the
one that was "blazingly fast" 6 months ago suddenly becomes
merely "good enough for checking email". CPUs have been faster
than they need to be, for most uses, for a decade.:)

Most boards now have on-board graphics/audio/ethernet.
It's often pretty good. (Though I just had a bad experience
with onboard ATI and ended up using a geForce card instead.
You can override the onboard with a card if you like.)


The Windows license is a pain. With OEM you don't pay
much but also don't have much. If you don't have a full
version disk then it will cost you $100+ to get an OEM
disk. With either an OEM PC/laptop or an OEM disk, you
can't transfer it. If something happens to the machine
you're out of luck and will have to buy another copy of the
Windows license you already own. Microsoft makes a fortune
that way (ever since they started with Product Activation),
charging people repeatedly for the same license by claiming
that they actually licensed their copyrighted material to a
fiberglass circuit board!.
Buying OEM has some advantage that way: If you're not
going to have a full license that you can transfer then it's
better to pay the $80+- for the license on an OEM machine
than to pay as much as twice that to buy the disk yourself.

Either way, watch out if you buy a disk. Most places
advertise "Full OEM", which is a trick. A Full license can
be installed to any number of machines (but only one
at a time). An OEM or system builder license can only be
used once. A "Full OEM" version is just an OEM version
with a sneaky name.


"Peabody" <waybackNO746SPAM44@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:20120826-223623.882.0@news.astraweb.com...
| So it's time to leave XP behind, and buy a new computer before
| Windows 8 arrives.
|
| I'm going to try to get by with one computer this time - a laptop -
| but am open to docking a real monitor, keyboard and mouse when
| needed. Not a gamer at all, so the biggest challenge for this box
| will be photo editing, plus whatever I may get into from shooting
| video on my T2i - editing and format conversion, I assume.
|
| I'm a Windows guy, and from the looking I've done, it seems to
| come down to a 15" i5 Ivy Bridge dual core, or a 17" i7 Ivy Bridge
| quad core.
|
| I've never tried to edit photos on a laptop, and wonder if a laptop
| display is any good for that. Can you even use a colorimeter on
| them? Are laptop displays still dithered 6-bit devices instead of
| real 8-bit?
|
| If a 17' laptop display is fully useable for photo editing, it
| would probably make sense to pay up for that, and not invest in a
| separate monitor. But if not, I might as well save a buck and get
| the 15" size - unless quad core vs dual core makes a big
| difference - and then get a separate monitor.
|
| The other big issue is graphics. Pretty much everything I'm
| looking at in my budget - $750 and under - has integrated graphics,
| not a separate GPU.
|
| So I'm not a professional, and money IS an object. But I'd like
| this computer to last several years.
|
| Office Depot has a sale on a 15-inch Lenovo Thinkpad Edge E530,
| i5-3210M, LED-backlit 1366x768 glossy, 6GB, 750GB 5400. Win7 Home
| Premium 64-bit. $600.
|
| Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated.
|



tony cooper 08-27-2012 03:16 AM

Re: Need advice on new computer for photo/video
 
On Sun, 26 Aug 2012 18:55:01 -0700, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

>In article <avfl38p2592gdmuodr9l6rncceb2gvgr2g@4ax.com>, tony cooper
><tony.cooper214@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> >> I suggest you consider adding a separate monitor to your system.
>> >> Monitors are relatively inexpensive, and using two monitors (laptop
>> >> screen and second monitor) has other benefits.
>> >
>> >A good monitor for photo editing starts at about $3 - $500 depending on
>> >size.

>>
>> That would be nice. Necessary, though? I could do my editing on my
>> cheap, second-hand NEC second screen and not lose much. My primary
>> screen is available now on Amazon for $448, but I'm not doing
>> commercial work, magazine stuff, stock photography, or anything like
>> that.
>>
>> I could take the same image, process it from RAW to CS4 on one screen
>> and then process it again from scratch on the other screen and I don't
>> think you could tell the difference. That includes color adjustments,
>> cloning, and Layer Masking.

>
>if you use a lower quality display, your results will be worse. why do
>you think pros spend money on better displays?
>

I am not a pro. I have stated, explicitly, that I am not a pro. The
OP has not stated that he/she is a pro.

>if your display has less accurate colour, lower contrast ratio, smaller
>gamut, etc., you can't do as good of a job.


Are you done pointing out the obvious?

However, monitors are not divided into two groups: high quality and
low quality. There are gradations in quality, and those gradations do
not always march hand-in-hand with price. A monitor that a graphics
professional requires and a monitor that someone processing family or
hobby photos can use successfully are not the same thing.

>
>taken to extreme, try using a b/w display and see how well you can
>adjust the colour balance.


And the silly?

>> The only difficulty I have with my laptop screen is that it's almost
>> impossible to open it to the same exact angle each time. A slight
>> change in the tilt changes things. My secondary screen is in a fixed
>> position.

>
>you have a low quality display in your laptop.


What a silly thing to say. Typical, but silly. Angle of screen
changes things on all monitors.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

tony cooper 08-27-2012 04:10 AM

Re: Need advice on new computer for photo/video
 
On Mon, 27 Aug 2012 15:59:42 +1200, Eric Stevens
<eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote:

>On Sun, 26 Aug 2012 23:16:06 -0400, tony cooper
><tony.cooper214@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 26 Aug 2012 18:55:01 -0700, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>In article <avfl38p2592gdmuodr9l6rncceb2gvgr2g@4ax.com>, tony cooper
>>><tony.cooper214@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> >> I suggest you consider adding a separate monitor to your system.
>>>> >> Monitors are relatively inexpensive, and using two monitors (laptop
>>>> >> screen and second monitor) has other benefits.
>>>> >
>>>> >A good monitor for photo editing starts at about $3 - $500 depending on
>>>> >size.
>>>>
>>>> That would be nice. Necessary, though? I could do my editing on my
>>>> cheap, second-hand NEC second screen and not lose much. My primary
>>>> screen is available now on Amazon for $448, but I'm not doing
>>>> commercial work, magazine stuff, stock photography, or anything like
>>>> that.
>>>>
>>>> I could take the same image, process it from RAW to CS4 on one screen
>>>> and then process it again from scratch on the other screen and I don't
>>>> think you could tell the difference. That includes color adjustments,
>>>> cloning, and Layer Masking.
>>>
>>>if you use a lower quality display, your results will be worse. why do
>>>you think pros spend money on better displays?
>>>

>>I am not a pro. I have stated, explicitly, that I am not a pro. The
>>OP has not stated that he/she is a pro.
>>
>>>if your display has less accurate colour, lower contrast ratio, smaller
>>>gamut, etc., you can't do as good of a job.

>>
>>Are you done pointing out the obvious?
>>
>>However, monitors are not divided into two groups: high quality and
>>low quality. There are gradations in quality, and those gradations do
>>not always march hand-in-hand with price. A monitor that a graphics
>>professional requires and a monitor that someone processing family or
>>hobby photos can use successfully are not the same thing.
>>
>>>
>>>taken to extreme, try using a b/w display and see how well you can
>>>adjust the colour balance.

>>
>>And the silly?
>>
>>>> The only difficulty I have with my laptop screen is that it's almost
>>>> impossible to open it to the same exact angle each time. A slight
>>>> change in the tilt changes things. My secondary screen is in a fixed
>>>> position.
>>>
>>>you have a low quality display in your laptop.

>>
>>What a silly thing to say. Typical, but silly. Angle of screen
>>changes things on all monitors.

>
>You can change the angle of vision on my Dell U2410 quite considerably
>without making a significant difference to the visible image other
>than perspective. My wife's more mundain monitor is much more
>sensitive to the angle of view.


Doesn't it depend on the lighting in the room...even with your Dell?


--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

nospam 08-27-2012 08:44 AM

Re: Need advice on new computer for photo/video
 
In article <k1emv4$7nb$1@dont-email.me>, Mayayana
<mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:

> If you're handy you might consider building your own, if
> you decide to go with a PC. Personally I don't know how
> people can stand laptops, but most people do use them.


personally, i don't know how people can stand a desktop.

laptops are a whole lot more portable than a desktop and if you want a
big display, lots of hard drives, etc, you can plug that stuff into the
laptop and sit at a desk. when you don't want to sit at a desk, you
have the option to move elsewhere. just unplug it and take the laptop
with you, then sit outside, on a couch, hotel room, wherever.

nospam 08-27-2012 08:44 AM

Re: Need advice on new computer for photo/video
 
In article <glol38h7hi0e4nr18mousqs33g5pqemiev@4ax.com>, tony cooper
<tony.cooper214@gmail.com> wrote:

> >> I could take the same image, process it from RAW to CS4 on one screen
> >> and then process it again from scratch on the other screen and I don't
> >> think you could tell the difference. That includes color adjustments,
> >> cloning, and Layer Masking.

> >
> >if you use a lower quality display, your results will be worse. why do
> >you think pros spend money on better displays?
> >

> I am not a pro. I have stated, explicitly, that I am not a pro. The
> OP has not stated that he/she is a pro.


so what? nobody said you were a pro.

the fact is that if you edit photos on low quality displays, the
results will be of lower quality. should be obvious, but i guess it
isn't.

you may not be able to tell the difference, but others probably can.

> >if your display has less accurate colour, lower contrast ratio, smaller
> >gamut, etc., you can't do as good of a job.

>
> Are you done pointing out the obvious?
>
> However, monitors are not divided into two groups: high quality and
> low quality.


i never said there were two groups. yet another instance of twisting
what i say.

> There are gradations in quality, and those gradations do
> not always march hand-in-hand with price.


there are the occasional exceptions, but most of the time you get what
you pay for.

> A monitor that a graphics
> professional requires and a monitor that someone processing family or
> hobby photos can use successfully are not the same thing.


nobody said they were.

> >> The only difficulty I have with my laptop screen is that it's almost
> >> impossible to open it to the same exact angle each time. A slight
> >> change in the tilt changes things. My secondary screen is in a fixed
> >> position.

> >
> >you have a low quality display in your laptop.

>
> What a silly thing to say. Typical, but silly. Angle of screen
> changes things on all monitors.


no it definitely does *not*.

ips displays have a viewing angle of 179 degrees and it does not shift
when you move your head. moving your head a little bit up or down or if
the angle of the display varies a little will impart no perceptible
difference.

the reality is that you have a low quality display. nothing wrong with
that. price is more important to you than quality. other people value
quality over price. that's why they make different levels of quality.

Mayayana 08-27-2012 12:57 PM

Re: Need advice on new computer for photo/video
 


--
--
"nospam" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:270820120144483664%nospam@nospam.invalid...
| In article <k1emv4$7nb$1@dont-email.me>, Mayayana
| <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
|
| > If you're handy you might consider building your own, if
| > you decide to go with a PC. Personally I don't know how
| > people can stand laptops, but most people do use them.
|
| personally, i don't know how people can stand a desktop.
|
| laptops are a whole lot more portable than a desktop and if you want a
| big display, lots of hard drives, etc, you can plug that stuff into the
| laptop and sit at a desk. when you don't want to sit at a desk, you
| have the option to move elsewhere. just unplug it and take the laptop
| with you, then sit outside, on a couch, hotel room, wherever.

I rarely see laptop users even plugging in a mouse.
They just get into the habit of a little screen with
little keys and an awkward "mousepad". ...And now that
we have 50+" TVs, more people are watching movies
on their phones. Odd.

I can see the appeal of mobility, though. I'm waiting
for someone to come out with a $50 tablet, with USB
ports and reasonable functionality, so that I can take
a 20 page article to the sofa for reading. That's the one
thing I find wanting in a PC.




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