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-   -   Re: What color laser printer is easily & cheaply refilled at homefrom non OEM toner? (http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/t951159-re-what-color-laser-printer-is-easily-and-cheaply-refilled-at-homefrom-non-oem-toner.html)

J.G. 08-20-2012 10:22 PM

Re: What color laser printer is easily & cheaply refilled at homefrom non OEM toner?
 
On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 15:08:43 -0700, Ashton Crusher wrote:

> Yeah, when I was working I went thru several color laser printers with
> the idea they would be able to do color photos better then the
> "expensive" inkjet process.


I'm slowly coming to the following hard-won realization,
much to my chagrin, regarding printing color photos at home:

0. B&W laser writers (such as my HP 3200m) are trivial & cheap to refill
1. Most color laser writers are also trivial & cheap to refill.
2. However, color laser writers stink at printing pictures at home!

Given that, we are FORCED to look at ink-based printers:
0. IMHO, all ink-based printers from HP are to be avoided at all costs!
1. Kodak/Canon/Dell ink-based printers 'may' be a viable alternative.
2. The key is to buy the printer based on the ease of "replacing" the ink!

Drat! Color lasers, which are the subject of this task, are slowly
dropping off the radar screen ... and the dreaded ink-based printers
are rising up, again.

Why is finding a decent printer to print photos at home at a decent
price such a miserable process? :(

Bill 08-20-2012 10:33 PM

Re: What color laser printer is easily & cheaply refilled at homefrom non OEM toner?
 
J.G. wrote:

> Why is finding a decent printer to print photos at home at a decent
> price such a miserable process? :(
>


Gosh to you remember what it cost to bring in a roll of film for
processing? You had to drive both ways, and maybe make a phone call to
see if it was ready? And you had to wait a few weeks to see pictures of
your thumb! The good old days, huh? : )

SMS 08-20-2012 11:12 PM

Re: What color laser printer is easily & cheaply refilled at homefrom non OEM toner?
 
On 8/20/2012 3:22 PM, J.G. wrote:

> Why is finding a decent printer to print photos at home at a decent
> price such a miserable process? :(


Around here it costs 9-15¢ to have a 4x6 photo printed on a Noritsu
commercial photo printer. If I send it to Walgreen's or CVS then usually
by the time I walk there, in ten minutes, the photo is ready. For large
prints Costco is the best deal.

By the time you buy photo paper and ink or toner it would be unlikely
for it to cost less to do it yourself, and of course the results would
not be nearly as good.

So I think the reason why it's so hard is that a decent photo printer
isn't cheap to manufacture or maintain and the wide availability of
photo printing service have eliminated the demand.


PeterN 08-20-2012 11:52 PM

Re: What color laser printer is easily & cheaply refilled at homefrom non OEM toner?
 
On 8/20/2012 7:12 PM, SMS wrote:
> On 8/20/2012 3:22 PM, J.G. wrote:
>
>> Why is finding a decent printer to print photos at home at a decent
>> price such a miserable process? :(

>
> Around here it costs 9-15¢ to have a 4x6 photo printed on a Noritsu
> commercial photo printer. If I send it to Walgreen's or CVS then usually
> by the time I walk there, in ten minutes, the photo is ready. For large
> prints Costco is the best deal.
>
> By the time you buy photo paper and ink or toner it would be unlikely
> for it to cost less to do it yourself, and of course the results would
> not be nearly as good.


I use Costco for all prints. I think there quality is usually very good
= excellent, provided I use the ICC profile for the machine I am using.
I also did a cost analysis and it is slightly less expensive to do my
own printing, provided I don't factor in the mistakes. Once I factor
those in, Costco is much less expensive.


--
Peter

Gernot Hassenpflug 08-21-2012 05:07 AM

Re: What color laser printer is easily & cheaply refilled at home from non OEM toner?
 
"J.G." <gilmore.justin@gmail.com> writes:

> On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 15:08:43 -0700, Ashton Crusher wrote:
>
> > Yeah, when I was working I went thru several color laser printers with
> > the idea they would be able to do color photos better then the
> > "expensive" inkjet process.

>
> I'm slowly coming to the following hard-won realization,
> much to my chagrin, regarding printing color photos at home:
>
> 0. B&W laser writers (such as my HP 3200m) are trivial & cheap to refill
> 1. Most color laser writers are also trivial & cheap to refill.
> 2. However, color laser writers stink at printing pictures at home!
>
> Given that, we are FORCED to look at ink-based printers:
> 0. IMHO, all ink-based printers from HP are to be avoided at all costs!
> 1. Kodak/Canon/Dell ink-based printers 'may' be a viable alternative.
> 2. The key is to buy the printer based on the ease of "replacing" the ink!
>
> Drat! Color lasers, which are the subject of this task, are slowly
> dropping off the radar screen ... and the dreaded ink-based printers
> are rising up, again.
>
> Why is finding a decent printer to print photos at home at a decent
> price such a miserable process? :(


Why is Epson not recommended in the US (I assume most posters here are
in the US)? Epson is great for photos, although as I concentrate on
linux Canon driver development I only use Epson as a backup. I buy 3rd
party inks for my Epson, haven't tried refilling it. I'm not aware of
any problems with the ink cartridges, but maybe there are, which is
why Epson is not being discussed here?
--
Gernot Hassenpflug

J.G. 08-21-2012 11:32 AM

Re: What color laser printer is easily & cheaply refilled at homefrom non OEM toner?
 
On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 23:14:41 -0700, Savageduck wrote:

> I think the issue the OP has, is a particular one with HP and color
> laser printers and the manner in which HP chips its toner cartridges. I
> believe he wants a color laser printer which will give him adequate
> results for photographs, as he rightly feels that the cost of inks for
> photo quality ink jet printers is excessive. The bottom line is, there
> is no free, or low budget ride, when it comes to producing quality photo
> prints at home, or anywhere else for that matter.


Wow. Nice synopsys!

In my naive days, I bought multiple HP ink printers from Costco, such as
the HP d135, which, due to the extreme expense of replacement ink tanks,
I naturally got very good at refilling. However, as noted, it should
NEVER be as difficult as HP purposefully makes it to simply refill an ink
tank - so - over the years, this frustration soured me on any and all HP
inkjets, swearing them off forever - and feeling good about that decision.

Still needing a printer, I immediately matured when I bought for about
$600 in those days, an HP laserjet 3200m, soon coming to the realization
that there 'was' a better way, which was B&W laser printing. Refilling
the C4092A is basically uneventfully trivial.

The kids/wife wanting a color printer notwithstanding, it 'appears' that
a color laser printer is not going to be acceptable for family photos;
hence I'm back to the only choice feasible - which is ink printers -
which I've previously sworn off forever (at least HP ink printers).

Finding out that almost all manufacturers make ink refilling difficult,
it appears that I'll have to choose my printer in reverse. That is, find
one that allows refilling - and then buy THAT printer.

This appears to be the only feasible method, although this entire process
of realization makes me want to kiss my trusty B&W printer in retrospect.

Ashton Crusher 08-21-2012 10:39 PM

Re: What color laser printer is easily & cheaply refilled at home from non OEM toner?
 
On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 22:22:09 +0000 (UTC), "J.G."
<gilmore.justin@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 15:08:43 -0700, Ashton Crusher wrote:
>
>> Yeah, when I was working I went thru several color laser printers with
>> the idea they would be able to do color photos better then the
>> "expensive" inkjet process.

>
>I'm slowly coming to the following hard-won realization,
>much to my chagrin, regarding printing color photos at home:
>
>0. B&W laser writers (such as my HP 3200m) are trivial & cheap to refill
>1. Most color laser writers are also trivial & cheap to refill.
>2. However, color laser writers stink at printing pictures at home!
>
>Given that, we are FORCED to look at ink-based printers:
>0. IMHO, all ink-based printers from HP are to be avoided at all costs!
>1. Kodak/Canon/Dell ink-based printers 'may' be a viable alternative.
>2. The key is to buy the printer based on the ease of "replacing" the ink!
>
>Drat! Color lasers, which are the subject of this task, are slowly
>dropping off the radar screen ... and the dreaded ink-based printers
>are rising up, again.
>
>Why is finding a decent printer to print photos at home at a decent
>price such a miserable process? :(


Last time I needed to buy a new AIO Inkie I was going to avoid HP. I
read all the reviews I could find, compared features and user
satisfaction, plus looked at reported problems. I Finally settled on
a Canon that sounded REALLY good from the reviews. After getting it I
was VERY disappointed in it's print quality for text and photos, it
just did not match the quality on simple run of the mill daily
printing that I was used to from my old defunct (my fault) HP. Some
users had mentioned it's lengthy startup time for the first page but
it didn't sound too bad so I still bought it. Start up time turned
out to be a HUGE pain in the butt. If it sat for more then a few
minutes it seemingly parked it's print heads and then when you went to
print again there was all sorts of start up racket and delay while it
brought the heads out of cold storage. Then I discovered that in what
it considered normal mixed color and b/w printing it used a mix of all
the color inks to produce the "black" which came out more like a dark
charcoal. So its prints looked lousy and used up all the color ink!!
I took it back and returned to an HP AIO. Good luck with your
search!!

SMS 08-22-2012 01:47 PM

Re: What color laser printer is easily & cheaply refilled at homefrom non OEM toner?
 
On 8/21/2012 3:39 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:

<snip>

> I took it back and returned to an HP AIO. Good luck with your
> search!!


All the rantings about HP are not because of the print quality, they are
because of the business practices of what has essentially become an ink
company.

I find an HP AIO to be ideal. The print quality is excellent. I buy the
replacement color ink cartridges from monoprice.com for as low as $8.
The price of HP ink cartridges does not affect me.

The key is to look at consumables first, and then select a printer based
on the availability of after-market consumables. Even if it means
finding a used printer.

Freecycle is full of used printers. When computers lost their parallel
ports there were a bunch of free laser printers available (often of a
quality that is no longer available) because so many people wanted
printers with USB ports. Then a lot of people wanted printers with
wireless built in so they gave away their printers that lacked wireless.
Now a lot of people want printers that support Airprint, so they can
print directly from an Apple iPad or iPhone, so they are buying new
printers that support Airprint.

Of course there have always been easy workarounds to these issues, but
they are not well known. I.e. I have a wireless print server with two
USB and one parallel port that my printers connect to. There is an
Airprint print server from Lantronix so any network printer can print
from an iPad or iPhone. But new inkjet printers are so cheap that few
people will bother with any workaround that costs $100. What they don't
realize is that that new inkjet printer is designed to stop the use of
refilled ink cartridges and aftermarket ink cartridges.


Chris Malcolm 08-22-2012 02:02 PM

Re: What color laser printer is easily & cheaply refilled at home from non OEM toner?
 
In rec.photo.digital SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
> On 8/21/2012 3:39 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:


> <snip>


>> I took it back and returned to an HP AIO. Good luck with your
>> search!!


> All the rantings about HP are not because of the print quality, they are
> because of the business practices of what has essentially become an ink
> company.


> I find an HP AIO to be ideal. The print quality is excellent. I buy the
> replacement color ink cartridges from monoprice.com for as low as $8.
> The price of HP ink cartridges does not affect me.


> The key is to look at consumables first, and then select a printer based
> on the availability of after-market consumables. Even if it means
> finding a used printer.


I happily used one of the allegedly better quality EPSON-compatible
inks for a few years. Not the cheapest, but a good reputation on the
web. My own tests had shown me only slight differences in colour, not
worth paying all the extra for unless I wanted to do some exhibition
quality prints. Which I sometimes did. And so sometimes I ended up
doing a few of my family snaps with EPSON inks, and most with the same
good quality replacement ink.

My wife pinned those she liked best on the kitchen wall, carefully
choosing a position the sun never reached. Nevertheless after a year
all the replacement inks had browned off like old masters, whereas the
EPSON ink snaps were still bright and colorful. After two years the
compatible prints looked like fading sepia prints, whereas the EPSON
ink prints still looked newly minted.

So now I stick to the printer maker's inks. Have you tried any
lightfast fading tests on your 3rd party inks?

--
Chris Malcolm

Gernot Hassenpflug 08-23-2012 04:11 AM

Re: What color laser printer is easily & cheaply refilled at home from non OEM toner?
 
Ashton Crusher <demi@moore.net> writes:

> On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 22:22:09 +0000 (UTC), "J.G."
> <gilmore.justin@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 15:08:43 -0700, Ashton Crusher wrote:
> >
> >> Yeah, when I was working I went thru several color laser printers with
> >> the idea they would be able to do color photos better then the
> >> "expensive" inkjet process.

> >
> >I'm slowly coming to the following hard-won realization,
> >much to my chagrin, regarding printing color photos at home:
> >
> >0. B&W laser writers (such as my HP 3200m) are trivial & cheap to refill
> >1. Most color laser writers are also trivial & cheap to refill.
> >2. However, color laser writers stink at printing pictures at home!
> >
> >Given that, we are FORCED to look at ink-based printers:
> >0. IMHO, all ink-based printers from HP are to be avoided at all costs!
> >1. Kodak/Canon/Dell ink-based printers 'may' be a viable alternative.
> >2. The key is to buy the printer based on the ease of "replacing" the ink!
> >
> >Drat! Color lasers, which are the subject of this task, are slowly
> >dropping off the radar screen ... and the dreaded ink-based printers
> >are rising up, again.
> >
> >Why is finding a decent printer to print photos at home at a decent
> >price such a miserable process? :(

>
> Last time I needed to buy a new AIO Inkie I was going to avoid HP. I
> read all the reviews I could find, compared features and user
> satisfaction, plus looked at reported problems. I Finally settled on
> a Canon that sounded REALLY good from the reviews. After getting it I
> was VERY disappointed in it's print quality for text and photos, it
> just did not match the quality on simple run of the mill daily
> printing that I was used to from my old defunct (my fault) HP. Some
> users had mentioned it's lengthy startup time for the first page but
> it didn't sound too bad so I still bought it. Start up time turned
> out to be a HUGE pain in the butt. If it sat for more then a few
> minutes it seemingly parked it's print heads and then when you went to
> print again there was all sorts of start up racket and delay while it
> brought the heads out of cold storage. Then I discovered that in what
> it considered normal mixed color and b/w printing it used a mix of all
> the color inks to produce the "black" which came out more like a dark
> charcoal. So its prints looked lousy and used up all the color ink!!
> I took it back and returned to an HP AIO. Good luck with your
> search!!


Yes, many of the Canon inkjets which, after all, are made for
photo-printing, improve the shades of grey by using other colors. This
is quite natural since the point of using them is to print quality
photos.

However, if one wants to use the printer for other things, which is
also natural, such as low-cost B/W printing, then one has to ensure
that the printer comes with at least one plain media mode (not the
highest or even medium quality one, in most cases) that prints only
using black ink. Then one uses that.

There is a whole range of Canon printers dealing with this problem by
shipping with two cartridges: black and color. One can then select
black-only cartridge and print all one's work only in black. Refilling
either cartridge is also trivial.
--
Gernot Hassenpflug


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