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VK 06-06-2009 04:18 PM

JavaScript libraries questions
 
comp.lang.javascript charter:

The proposed comp.lang.javascript will be open to discussion on all
aspects of JavaScript, as it relates to HTML, Java, Perl, the World
Wide Web in general, and other related languages. The scope of
discussion will specifically exclude matters which are *solely*
related to Sun Microsystems, Inc.'s Java language, which should be
discussed in comp.lang.java.

"all aspects" includes _all_ aspects together with using 3rd party
libraries, debugging 3rd party libraries, writing own libraries,
commenting on technical benefits and disadvantages of different
libraries.

It also includes evangelistic discussions of allowance of 3rd party
library usage as such in Javascript programming, the influence of
using library X, Y, Z on personal chakras and any other flooding of
the kind.

It is important to mention that the second type of topics can be
started iif (if-and-only-if) the original post explicitly raises
relevant questions and invites for discussion.

If anyone is experiencing a single specific descriptive problem while
using a 3rd party library and asking for help in this group, she or he
doesn't give a damn neither about others' personal opinions about the
whole library nor about others' personal opinions on using 3rd party
libraries as such, nor about others' personal opinions about herself
for using the/a library.

This way for a question about a single specific descriptive problem
while using a 3rd party the answering options are:
1) answer this particular question if the answer is known
2) silently ignore the post if the answer is not known or if the
coding style or approach is in strong disagreement with the personal
believes of the reader.
3) if no exact answer is given yet, it is possible to suggest in
polite form to address the problem to the support forum of the library
producer. For the most prominent packages for the year 2009 these are
(alphabetically):

Adobe AIR framework questions:
http://forums.adobe.com/community/ai...ral_discussion

Adobe Flash ActionScript questions:
http://forums.adobe.com/community/fl..._actionscript3
(ActionScript 3)
http://forums.adobe.com/community/fl...h_actionscript
(ActionScript 2)

Dojo
http://www.dojotoolkit.org/forum

jQuery
http://groups.google.com/group/jquery-en (mailing list)

Prototype library and Ruby on Rails framework as related with
Prototype
http://groups.google.com/group/prototype-scriptaculous

A sample answer could be then:
"Hi, looks like no one here answered yet. You may get quicker answer
if repost your question at the ... library support forum. Their
address is ..."
or
"Hi, I don't know the answer to your problem but you may repost your
question at the ... library support forum. Their address is ..."

If a reader hates all libraries or one particular libraries or just
doesn't know the right answer then it is a particular problem of a
particular reader and OP (Original Poster) is not interested in
knowing about it.

Threads like http://groups.google.com/group/comp....8fbe6867106bcf
are not acceptable neither as for a technical newsgroup nor as from
point of view of most primitives forms of netiquette.
That particular thread had to contain really only two posts: OP and
user "ace" answer. It could be one more post like
"Hi, I don't know the answer to your problem but you may repost your
question at the jQuery library support forum. Their address is
http://groups.google.com/group/jquery-en"

Note 1: Prototype naming problem
Because the word "prototype" defines a specific entity in Javascript,
it is sometimes difficult to understand right away if OP is asking
something about Javascript prototype or about Prototype library. It is
suggested to always write the library name as Prototype.js despite it
is not its name but the library file name. This way we will eliminate
possible confusion.

Note 2: Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam
It is possible to mention personal opinion on a/the library after the
answer is given, at the end of post and without making personal
attacks to OP just for the fact of using a/the library. Expressing
such personal opinion can not substitute the answer itself and it can
not to be the only content of the post. While being close to flooding
(posting for posting), one can express personal opinions after
suggesting the relevant forum or mailing list. Then the altered anser
could be:
"Hi, I don't know the answer to your problem but you may repost your
question at the jQuery library support forum. Their address is
http://groups.google.com/group/jquery-en
Personally I do not consider jQuery as a good choice because
(arguments follows)"

Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn 06-06-2009 05:30 PM

Re: JavaScript libraries questions
 
VK wrote:
> comp.lang.javascript charter:
>
> The proposed comp.lang.javascript will be open to discussion on all
> aspects of JavaScript, as it relates to HTML, Java, Perl, the World
> Wide Web in general, and other related languages. [...]


The proposition for a charter of a newsgroup is of no relevance at all to
what is on-topic in that newsgroup. Relevant is only what the actual
charter and the newsgroup's FAQ (as an effort to document the newsgroup's
/status quo/) say.

Go away.


PointedEars

ace 06-06-2009 06:46 PM

Re: JavaScript libraries questions
 
Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>> The proposed comp.lang.javascript will be open to discussion on all
>> aspects of JavaScript, as it relates to HTML, Java, Perl, the World
>> Wide Web in general, and other related languages. [...]

>
> The proposition for a charter of a newsgroup is of no relevance at all to
> what is on-topic in that newsgroup. Relevant is only what the actual


I don't know if VK posted a proposition (and if he did, why shouldn't
he?) but I'm curious in which way is his post in opposition with current
charter?

>
> Go away.


So could you?

David Mark 06-06-2009 06:53 PM

Re: JavaScript libraries questions
 
On Jun 6, 2:46*pm, ace <n...@nn.com> wrote:
> Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> >> The proposed comp.lang.javascript will be open to discussion on all
> >> aspects of JavaScript, as it relates to HTML, Java, Perl, the World
> >> Wide Web in general, and other related languages. [...]

>
> > The proposition for a charter of a newsgroup is of no relevance at all to
> > what is on-topic in that newsgroup. *Relevant is only what the actual

>
> I don't know if VK posted a proposition (and if he did, why shouldn't
> he?) but I'm curious in which way is his post in opposition with current
> charter?


VK is a nut. Ignore him.

[snip]

ace 06-06-2009 07:04 PM

Re: JavaScript libraries questions
 
David Mark wrote:
>> I don't know if VK posted a proposition (and if he did, why shouldn't
>> he?) but I'm curious in which way is his post in opposition with current
>> charter?

>
> VK is a nut. Ignore him.


VK wrote some good arguments in fluent english on the current issues in
this ng. I wouldn't call him nut.

John G Harris 06-06-2009 08:01 PM

Re: JavaScript libraries questions
 
On Sat, 6 Jun 2009 at 09:18:41, in comp.lang.javascript, VK wrote:

<snip>
>iif (if-and-only-if)

<snip>

It's iff in real maths books.

John
--
John Harris

VK 06-06-2009 08:09 PM

Re: JavaScript libraries questions
 
> * <snip>>iif (if-and-only-if)
>
> * <snip>
>
> It's iff in real maths books.


As a keyword it is also in VB but having all different meaning there.
As if-and-only-if yes, it's a purely math stuff :-)


Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn 06-06-2009 09:25 PM

Re: JavaScript libraries questions
 
ace wrote:
> David Mark wrote:
>>> I don't know if VK posted a proposition (and if he did, why shouldn't
>>> he?) but I'm curious in which way is his post in opposition with current
>>> charter?

>> VK is a nut. Ignore him.

>
> VK wrote some good arguments in fluent english on the current issues in
> this ng. I wouldn't call him nut.


He is if he ignores the current consensus about libraries in spite of the
evidence in favor of it, and quotes an outdated proposal for the newsgroup's
charter (instead of the actual charter) to support his insignificant opinion
(as he is nothing but an infrequent nuisance of incompetence and
cluelessness -- in short, a troll -- around here. Search the archives.)


PointedEars

Jorge 06-06-2009 09:46 PM

Re: JavaScript libraries questions
 
On Jun 6, 11:25*pm, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedE...@web.de>
wrote:
> (...)
> He is if he ignores the current consensus about libraries (...)


The "current consensus about libraries" is that libraries are intended
to :

1.- ease a web developer's life by providing a walk-around the
minefield of bugs and heterogeneous DOM implementations in a diversity
of browsers.

2.- provide a common and higher-level API than the built-ins.

Both of which, as you know, are Good Things.

--
Jorge.

VK 06-06-2009 09:46 PM

Re: JavaScript libraries questions
 
> VK wrote:
> > comp.lang.javascript charter:

>
> > The proposed comp.lang.javascript will be open to discussion on all
> > aspects of JavaScript, as it relates to HTML, Java, Perl, the World
> > Wide Web in general, and other related languages. [...]

>
> The proposition for a charter of a newsgroup is of no relevance at all to
> what is on-topic in that newsgroup. *Relevant is only what the actual
> charter


Your objection is not understood. I quoted the charter as it was
placed for voting and voted "yes" by the majority of voters Jan 27
1996. It is the actual and the only group charter. Please see the
relevant records at news.announce.newgroups where the voting took
place:

http://groups.google.com/group/news....fd3fc1b03fd982

> and the newsgroup's FAQ (as an effort to document the newsgroup's /statusquo/) say.


Neither newsgroup's FAQ nor some current "status quo" having any
relevance to the "allowed" and "forbidden" topics. Only group's
charter defines that and FAQ - which is not a required requisite of a
newsgroup - may only express some common interpretation of the charter
if the charter's wording is ambiguous in some of its parts.
Say it may be agreed upon that ActionScript should be discussed at
other forums because "all aspects of JavaScript, as it relates to
HTML, Java, Perl, the World Wide Web in general" doesn't define
clearly if a plugin with a proprietary JavaScript version in it is a
valid topic of the group. Others may argue with it because the charter
neither explicitly excludes such topics. Either point of view is valid
and no amount of wording in FAQ invalidates one of them.
At the same time a purely Java related questions are not valid here
and there can be no discussion on that.





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