Perl code design award?
 

The Obfuscated Perl Contest and Perl Golf are venerable traditions
in the Perl community, and among my favorite sources of puzzles.
Unfortunately, they play too well into the stereotype of Perl
software as being unmaintainable, impenetrable, hackish, "write
only code", etc. (I know that this is an unfair stereotype, but
it's most definitely out there.)

I sure wish there was a yearly "official" award for excellence in
Perl software engineering (for lack of a better term): Perl code
that is well-designed and clearly coded, has excellent performance,
is rock solid, and well documented.

Maybe such award already exists (if so, what is it called?). If
not, I think that, indirectly (as a yearly showcase) it would raise
Perl's status in the software world a couple of notches.

jill
--
To s&e^n]d me m~a}i]l r%e*m?o\v[e bit from my a|d)d:r{e:s]s.

Re: Perl code design award?
 

In article <c9v110$3nn$1@reader2.panix.com>,
J Krugman <jkrugman345@yahbitoo.com> wrote:

: [...]
:
: Maybe such award already exists (if so, what is it called?). If
: not, I think that, indirectly (as a yearly showcase) it would raise
: Perl's status in the software world a couple of notches.

Reason won't sway someone who chooses a backward and ignorant position.
It'd be a futile effort in casting Perl before swine.

Greg
--
First fork() emulation and now select()? If we are not careful in ten years
or so NT/W2K/W2010 will be almost as useful as UNIX was in mid-1980's.
-- Jarkko Hietaniemi

Re: Perl code design award?
 

In <10c63j1r1pmilc6@corp.supernews.com> gbacon@hiwaay.net (Greg Bacon) writes:

>In article <c9v110$3nn$1@reader2.panix.com>,
> J Krugman <jkrugman345@yahbitoo.com> wrote:

>: Maybe such award already exists (if so, what is it called?). If
>: not, I think that, indirectly (as a yearly showcase) it would raise
>: Perl's status in the software world a couple of notches.

>Reason won't sway someone who chooses a backward and ignorant position.
>It'd be a futile effort in casting Perl before swine.

Well, I think such recognition of Perl coding excellence would be
good in itself, irrespective of its effects on Perl's detractors.
(Sorry, I should have made this point clearer.)

jill
--
To s&e^n]d me m~a}i]l r%e*m?o\v[e bit from my a|d)d:r{e:s]s.

Re: Perl code design award?
 

"J Krugman" <jkrugman345@yahbitoo.com> wrote in message
news:c9v4fe$4da$1@reader2.panix.com...
> In <10c63j1r1pmilc6@corp.supernews.com> gbacon@hiwaay.net (Greg Bacon)
writes:
>
> >In article <c9v110$3nn$1@reader2.panix.com>,
> > J Krugman <jkrugman345@yahbitoo.com> wrote:
>
> >: Maybe such award already exists (if so, what is it called?). If
> >: not, I think that, indirectly (as a yearly showcase) it would raise
> >: Perl's status in the software world a couple of notches.
>
> >Reason won't sway someone who chooses a backward and ignorant position.
> >It'd be a futile effort in casting Perl before swine.
>
> Well, I think such recognition of Perl coding excellence would be
> good in itself, irrespective of its effects on Perl's detractors.
> (Sorry, I should have made this point clearer.)
>

And what would be considered Perl coding excellence?

The way one writes their code will never have an effect on the general
perception of the language. I can make you a pretty safe bet that the vast
majority of Perl coders don't write obfuscated code in their day-to-day
coding, so you wouldn't be changing anything by making a prize for who can
best adhere to the perlstyle guidelines.

Your complaint seems to be against ignorance, and all the prizes in the
world aren't going to change that. I doubt that any of these people even
know there is a prize for obfuscation. You don't get the label of ignorant
by being aware of these things, after all.

I would also suspect that the emergence of PHP for Web scripting will do
wonders for Perl's tarnished image. PHP appears to have taken away Perl's
crown of official language of Web script kiddies, so hopefully Perl will no
longer be associated with bad Web scripting and will instead be seen as the
great glue language it's always been.

And no one's stopping you from creating your own prize if you're so
inclined. Don't expect someone else to do it for you.

Matt

Re: Perl code design award?
 

In <LaHwc.974$8k4.55474@news20.bellglobal.com> "Matt Garrish" <matthew.garrish@sympatico.ca> writes:


>"J Krugman" <jkrugman345@yahbitoo.com> wrote in message
>news:c9v4fe$4da$1@reader2.panix.com...
>> In <10c63j1r1pmilc6@corp.supernews.com> gbacon@hiwaay.net (Greg Bacon)
>writes:
>>
>> >In article <c9v110$3nn$1@reader2.panix.com>,
>> > J Krugman <jkrugman345@yahbitoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >: Maybe such award already exists (if so, what is it called?). If
>> >: not, I think that, indirectly (as a yearly showcase) it would raise
>> >: Perl's status in the software world a couple of notches.
>>
>> >Reason won't sway someone who chooses a backward and ignorant position.
>> >It'd be a futile effort in casting Perl before swine.
>>
>> Well, I think such recognition of Perl coding excellence would be
^^^^^^^^
>> good in itself, irrespective of its effects on Perl's detractors.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>The way one writes their code will never have an effect on the general
>perception of the language.

Please read what I wrote. I don't think I can say it any more clearly.

jill
--
To s&e^n]d me m~a}i]l r%e*m?o\v[e bit from my a|d)d:r{e:s]s.

Re: Perl code design award?
 

"J Krugman" <jkrugman345@yahbitoo.com> wrote in message
news:c9vka0$8lc$1@reader2.panix.com...
> In <LaHwc.974$8k4.55474@news20.bellglobal.com> "Matt Garrish"
<matthew.garrish@sympatico.ca> writes:
>
>
> >"J Krugman" <jkrugman345@yahbitoo.com> wrote in message
> >news:c9v4fe$4da$1@reader2.panix.com...
> >> In <10c63j1r1pmilc6@corp.supernews.com> gbacon@hiwaay.net (Greg Bacon)
> >writes:
> >>
> >> >In article <c9v110$3nn$1@reader2.panix.com>,
> >> > J Krugman <jkrugman345@yahbitoo.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >: Maybe such award already exists (if so, what is it called?). If
> >> >: not, I think that, indirectly (as a yearly showcase) it would raise
> >> >: Perl's status in the software world a couple of notches.
> >>
> >> >Reason won't sway someone who chooses a backward and ignorant
position.
> >> >It'd be a futile effort in casting Perl before swine.
> >>
> >> Well, I think such recognition of Perl coding excellence would be
> ^^^^^^^^
> >> good in itself, irrespective of its effects on Perl's detractors.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> >The way one writes their code will never have an effect on the general
> >perception of the language.
>
> Please read what I wrote. I don't think I can say it any more clearly.
>

Have Web site of the day/week/month awards made coding on the Web any
better? Does giving out Oscars prove that the quality of movies is getting
any better?

Your premise is naive. Does any other language have these awards you dream
of? Yet you believe that Perl is a lesser language why, because someone you
talked to said so? And because there aren't any awards to prove it isn't so?
Maybe Perl needs stronger advocates who will stand up for the langauge. I've
never run into anyone with such an opinion of the language, but maybe that's
just me.

It's commendable that you want to be an advocate of the language, but awards
at best might stroke a person's ego but are not going to vault Perl to some
position of great esteem that you seem to believe it is lacking.

Matt

Re: Perl code design award?
 

In <pbJwc.5349$sS2.159117@news20.bellglobal.com> "Matt Garrish" <matthew.garrish@sympatico.ca> writes:


>"J Krugman" <jkrugman345@yahbitoo.com> wrote in message
>news:c9vka0$8lc$1@reader2.panix.com...
>> In <LaHwc.974$8k4.55474@news20.bellglobal.com> "Matt Garrish"
><matthew.garrish@sympatico.ca> writes:
>>
>>
>> >"J Krugman" <jkrugman345@yahbitoo.com> wrote in message
>> >news:c9v4fe$4da$1@reader2.panix.com...
>> >> In <10c63j1r1pmilc6@corp.supernews.com> gbacon@hiwaay.net (Greg Bacon)
>> >writes:
>> >>
>> >> >In article <c9v110$3nn$1@reader2.panix.com>,
>> >> > J Krugman <jkrugman345@yahbitoo.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >: Maybe such award already exists (if so, what is it called?). If
>> >> >: not, I think that, indirectly (as a yearly showcase) it would raise
>> >> >: Perl's status in the software world a couple of notches.
>> >>
>> >> >Reason won't sway someone who chooses a backward and ignorant
>position.
>> >> >It'd be a futile effort in casting Perl before swine.
>> >>
>> >> Well, I think such recognition of Perl coding excellence would be
>> ^^^^^^^^
>> >> good in itself, irrespective of its effects on Perl's detractors.
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>
>> >The way one writes their code will never have an effect on the general
>> >perception of the language.
>>
>> Please read what I wrote. I don't think I can say it any more clearly.
>>

>Have Web site of the day/week/month awards made coding on the Web any
>better?

I'm beginning to see why: people can't read... *sheesh*

jill
--
To s&e^n]d me m~a}i]l r%e*m?o\v[e bit from my a|d)d:r{e:s]s.

Re: Perl code design award?
 

"J Krugman" <jkrugman345@yahbitoo.com> wrote in message
news:c9vpcu$a60$1@reader2.panix.com...
> In <pbJwc.5349$sS2.159117@news20.bellglobal.com> "Matt Garrish"
<matthew.garrish@sympatico.ca> writes:
>
>
> >"J Krugman" <jkrugman345@yahbitoo.com> wrote in message
> >news:c9vka0$8lc$1@reader2.panix.com...
> >> In <LaHwc.974$8k4.55474@news20.bellglobal.com> "Matt Garrish"
> ><matthew.garrish@sympatico.ca> writes:
> >>
> >>
> >> >"J Krugman" <jkrugman345@yahbitoo.com> wrote in message
> >> >news:c9v4fe$4da$1@reader2.panix.com...
> >> >> In <10c63j1r1pmilc6@corp.supernews.com> gbacon@hiwaay.net (Greg
Bacon)
> >> >writes:
> >> >>
> >> >> >In article <c9v110$3nn$1@reader2.panix.com>,
> >> >> > J Krugman <jkrugman345@yahbitoo.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >: Maybe such award already exists (if so, what is it called?). If
> >> >> >: not, I think that, indirectly (as a yearly showcase) it would
raise
> >> >> >: Perl's status in the software world a couple of notches.
> >> >>
> >> >> >Reason won't sway someone who chooses a backward and ignorant
> >position.
> >> >> >It'd be a futile effort in casting Perl before swine.
> >> >>
> >> >> Well, I think such recognition of Perl coding excellence would be
> >> ^^^^^^^^
> >> >> good in itself, irrespective of its effects on Perl's detractors.
> >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >>
> >> >The way one writes their code will never have an effect on the general
> >> >perception of the language.
> >>
> >> Please read what I wrote. I don't think I can say it any more clearly.
> >>
>
> >Have Web site of the day/week/month awards made coding on the Web any
> >better?
>
> I'm beginning to see why: people can't read... *sheesh*
>

Whatever you think you wrote, you didn't. And whatever intelligent thought
you think you had is nowhere to be found. I see that dialogue is not what
you are after but some affirmation of your laughable idea. Sad I've had
spell it out in so many words for you, but maybe you'll learn to read
through an entire posting next time.

Matt

Re: Perl code design award?
 

"Matt Garrish" sez:

"J Krugman" <jkrugman345@yahbitoo.com> wrote in message
news:c9vka0$8lc$1@reader2.panix.com...
> In <LaHwc.974$8k4.55474@news20.bellglobal.com> "Matt Garrish"
<matthew.garrish@sympatico.ca> writes:
>
>
> >"J Krugman" <jkrugman345@yahbitoo.com> wrote in message
> >news:c9v4fe$4da$1@reader2.panix.com...
> >> In <10c63j1r1pmilc6@corp.supernews.com> gbacon@hiwaay.net (Greg Bacon)
> >writes:
> >>
> >> >In article <c9v110$3nn$1@reader2.panix.com>,
> >> > J Krugman <jkrugman345@yahbitoo.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >: Maybe such award already exists (if so, what is it called?). If
> >> >: not, I think that, indirectly (as a yearly showcase) it would raise
> >> >: Perl's status in the software world a couple of notches.
> >>
> >> >Reason won't sway someone who chooses a backward and ignorant
position.
> >> >It'd be a futile effort in casting Perl before swine.
> >>
> >> Well, I think such recognition of Perl coding excellence would be
> ^^^^^^^^
> >> good in itself, irrespective of its effects on Perl's detractors.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> >The way one writes their code will never have an effect on the general
> >perception of the language.
>
> Please read what I wrote. I don't think I can say it any more clearly.
>

Have Web site of the day/week/month awards made coding on the Web any
better?

Your talent for impersonating a grade-A imbecile is indeed
impressive... Please stop! You're killing me!

-bill

Re: Perl code design award?
 

"Purl Gurl" <purlgurl@purlgurl.net> wrote in message
news:40C37554.CFB5465C@purlgurl.net...
>
> A yearly award is not such a bad idea, might be fun.
>
> However, you well know if any awards are to be given,
> those awards will only be given to those within this
> Perl Good Ol' Boys club, deserved or not. Those truly
> deserving of recognition, who are "outsiders," will
> not be rewarded, for any reason.
>

Wow, despite being functionally illiterate in English, you almost seem to
understand what I've been trying to get through to this person. Rewarding
code for being very code-ish is pointless, although I suspect your inability
to write anything approaching decent code is what would really disqualify
you.

You alone could also give Perl a bad name, but as we all know no one outside
of the newsgroup even knows or cares that you exist. In other words, the
supposed impact on the language you claim you have is as non-existent as the
influence any award would have beyond those few who care enough to enter.

Matt