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-   -   O.T. optimising file placement (http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/t868589-o-t-optimising-file-placement.html)

Roedy Green 02-21-2012 05:59 PM

O.T. optimising file placement
 
Let's say I had an SSD. see http://mindprod.com/bgloss/ssd.html Lets
say I had a list of my most active files, some of which were data
files and some were windows system files.

Is there a way to move these files to SSD in a way that Java, the OS,
Windows etc act as if it did not notice they had moved? Can something
be done with those symbolic links? Is there a disk driver that uses
the SSD transparently as a cache for the most active files or
clusters?
--
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
http://mindprod.com
One of the most useful comments you can put in a program is
"If you change this, remember to change ?XXX? too".


Daniel Pitts 02-22-2012 02:05 AM

Re: O.T. optimising file placement
 
On 2/21/12 9:59 AM, Roedy Green wrote:
> Let's say I had an SSD. see http://mindprod.com/bgloss/ssd.html Lets
> say I had a list of my most active files, some of which were data
> files and some were windows system files.
>
> Is there a way to move these files to SSD in a way that Java, the OS,
> Windows etc act as if it did not notice they had moved? Can something
> be done with those symbolic links? Is there a disk driver that uses
> the SSD transparently as a cache for the most active files or
> clusters?


I seem to recall hearing about a way to tell windows to use SSD as a
kind of smart cache, but I haven't played around with it.

Jeff Higgins 02-22-2012 02:41 AM

Re: O.T. optimising file placement
 
On 02/21/2012 12:59 PM, Roedy Green wrote:
> Let's say I had an SSD. see http://mindprod.com/bgloss/ssd.html Lets
> say I had a list of my most active files, some of which were data
> files and some were windows system files.
>
> Is there a way to move these files to SSD in a way that Java, the OS,
> Windows etc act as if it did not notice they had moved? Can something
> be done with those symbolic links? Is there a disk driver that uses
> the SSD transparently as a cache for the most active files or
> clusters?

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReadyBoost>
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_Response_Technology>
<http://www.highpoint-tech.com/USA_new/series_RC3240X8.htm>


Jeff Higgins 02-22-2012 04:23 AM

Re: O.T. optimising file placement
 
On 02/21/2012 09:41 PM, Jeff Higgins wrote:
> On 02/21/2012 12:59 PM, Roedy Green wrote:
>> Let's say I had an SSD. see http://mindprod.com/bgloss/ssd.html Lets
>> say I had a list of my most active files, some of which were data
>> files and some were windows system files.
>>
>> Is there a way to move these files to SSD in a way that Java, the OS,
>> Windows etc act as if it did not notice they had moved? Can something
>> be done with those symbolic links? Is there a disk driver that uses
>> the SSD transparently as a cache for the most active files or
>> clusters?

> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReadyBoost>
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_Response_Technology>
> <http://www.highpoint-tech.com/USA_new/series_RC3240X8.htm>
>

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_drive>
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vista_IO_technologies#ReadyDrive>
<http://www.ocztechnology.com/synapse-faq>
etc. ... giyf

Roedy Green 02-22-2012 06:54 PM

Re: O.T. optimising file placement
 
On Tue, 21 Feb 2012 21:41:56 -0500, Jeff Higgins
<jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who
said :

><http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReadyBoost>


"Windows 7 allows up to eight devices for a maximum of 256 GB of
additional memory,[5] with up to 32 GB on a single storage device.[6]"

It seems like yesterday I tested it in Vista where it had a limit of
4 Gig.
--
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
http://mindprod.com
One of the most useful comments you can put in a program is
"If you change this, remember to change ?XXX? too".


Roedy Green 02-22-2012 07:15 PM

Re: O.T. optimising file placement
 
On Tue, 21 Feb 2012 23:23:14 -0500, Jeff Higgins
<jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who
said :

><http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_drive>


Back before the Internet, I was pushing for what I call "Marthaing"
drives. We might get them any year now. The idea is a microprocessor
inside the hard disk in the background keeps reordering the tracks so
that the most frequently used ones are near the outer rim.
It would have a delayed write cache built in. Today it would be
easier to implement since you could use a non-volatile fast SSD to
store the map of logical to physical track numbers and a fat delayed
write. In the background the disk moves infrequently used tracks from
the outer rim toward the center in order to free up slots for writing.

People are willing to pay double or triple for 7200 RPM to 10,000 RPM.
With that sort of budget, used instead for internal cleverness, RAM
and SSD you might be able to get considerably better performance.
--
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
http://mindprod.com
One of the most useful comments you can put in a program is
"If you change this, remember to change ?XXX? too".


Jeff Higgins 02-22-2012 09:00 PM

Re: O.T. optimising file placement
 
On 02/22/2012 02:15 PM, Roedy Green wrote:
>
> Back before the Internet, I was pushing for what I call "Marthaing"
> drives. We might get them any year now.

Who is Martha? Back before the Internet I was advocating for squeezable
catsup bottles. We have'em, but I haven't got a dime for'em. :(



Jeff Higgins 02-22-2012 09:03 PM

Re: O.T. optimising file placement
 
On 02/22/2012 04:00 PM, Jeff Higgins wrote:
> On 02/22/2012 02:15 PM, Roedy Green wrote:
>>
>> Back before the Internet, I was pushing for what I call "Marthaing"
>> drives. We might get them any year now.

> Who is Martha? Back before the Internet I was advocating for squeezable
> catsup bottles. We have'em, but I haven't got a dime for'em. :(
>
>

<http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Ketchup_v._Catsup>


Lew 02-22-2012 10:27 PM

Re: O.T. optimising file placement
 
On 02/22/2012 11:15 AM, Roedy Green wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Feb 2012 23:23:14 -0500, Jeff Higgins
> <jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who
> said :
>
>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_drive>

>
> Back before the Internet, I was pushing for what I call "Marthaing"
> drives. We might get them any year now. The idea is a microprocessor
> inside the hard disk in the background keeps reordering the tracks so
> that the most frequently used ones are near the outer rim.


That won't help much.

> It would have a delayed write cache built in. Today it would be
> easier to implement since you could use a non-volatile fast SSD to
> store the map of logical to physical track numbers and a fat delayed
> write. In the background the disk moves infrequently used tracks from
> the outer rim toward the center in order to free up slots for writing.
>
> People are willing to pay double or triple for 7200 RPM to 10,000 RPM.
> With that sort of budget, used instead for internal cleverness, RAM
> and SSD you might be able to get considerably better performance.


Modern hard drives, pretty much all of them, have a buffer and microprocessor
as part of the hardware. We're not going to get any "Marthaing" as you
describe it (wherever the heck /that/ term came from) because what they're
already doing is already so effective.

What they mostly do is collect read and write requests and combine them in
elevator-seek order, along with full-track readahead. This optimizes disk
access for single sweeps of the drive heads. The on-drive buffer also holds
enough data for most reads and writes, overtaking any advantage that any
(perforce extremely slow) physical re-ordering of the tracks could accomplish.

--
Lew
Honi soit qui mal y pense.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi.../c/cf/Friz.jpg

Gene Wirchenko 02-22-2012 10:52 PM

Re: O.T. optimising file placement
 
On Wed, 22 Feb 2012 16:03:41 -0500, Jeff Higgins
<jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>On 02/22/2012 04:00 PM, Jeff Higgins wrote:
>> On 02/22/2012 02:15 PM, Roedy Green wrote:
>>>
>>> Back before the Internet, I was pushing for what I call "Marthaing"
>>> drives. We might get them any year now.

>> Who is Martha? Back before the Internet I was advocating for squeezable
>> catsup bottles. We have'em, but I haven't got a dime for'em. :(


><http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Ketchup_v._Catsup>


I noticed that the tone is not as academic as Wikipedia.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko


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