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-   -   Proposal to create a new mailing list (http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/t836784-proposal-to-create-a-new-mailing-list.html)

Daniel Schierbeck 12-30-2006 04:07 PM

Proposal to create a new mailing list
 
Hello fellow Rubyphilics!

As other have remarked, the quality of this list is rapidly declining --
not because of a lack of participation, but rather because of the
increase of the same. Each and every question, no matter how nubish, is
answered, which of course is good. But the deep, poignant (no pun
intended) discussions seem to have faded in both frequency and quality.

I therefore propose we establish a ruby-experts (or the like) mailing
list intended for exactly those discussions.

Thoughts?


Daniel Schierbeck



Robert Klemme 12-30-2006 04:13 PM

Re: Proposal to create a new mailing list
 
On 30.12.2006 17:07, Daniel Schierbeck wrote:
> Hello fellow Rubyphilics!
>
> As other have remarked, the quality of this list is rapidly declining --
> not because of a lack of participation, but rather because of the
> increase of the same. Each and every question, no matter how nubish, is
> answered, which of course is good. But the deep, poignant (no pun
> intended) discussions seem to have faded in both frequency and quality.
>
> I therefore propose we establish a ruby-experts (or the like) mailing
> list intended for exactly those discussions.
>
> Thoughts?


Tons

http://groups.google.com/group/comp....d95f5999ab9fb7

http://groups.google.com/group/comp....fd0a2e47257e2d

robert

Gregory Seidman 12-30-2006 04:31 PM

Re: Proposal to create a new mailing list
 
On Sun, Dec 31, 2006 at 01:07:38AM +0900, Daniel Schierbeck wrote:
} Hello fellow Rubyphilics!
}
} As other have remarked, the quality of this list is rapidly declining --
} not because of a lack of participation, but rather because of the
} increase of the same. Each and every question, no matter how nubish, is
} answered, which of course is good. But the deep, poignant (no pun
} intended) discussions seem to have faded in both frequency and quality.
}
} I therefore propose we establish a ruby-experts (or the like) mailing
} list intended for exactly those discussions.
}
} Thoughts?

First off, I vote no.

Second, I think there has been a drop-off in "poignant" discussions largely
because people have settled on what is needed (or, rather, the community's
view of where Ruby should be going matches Matz's view to a large extent).
At this point, there are really two major priorities for Ruby: some
cleanup (piddling missing functionality like blocks that take blocks, code
cleanup/rewrite, removing syntax ambiguity, a formal specification of the
language, etc.), and performance (i.e. a VM rather than an interpreter).

The first is being served by progress toward Ruby 2.0, which mostly gets
discussed on ruby-core, I think. The second is being addressed by numerous
initiatives, including YARV, Rubinius, Ruby.NET, Cardinal (Ruby on Parrot,
which may or may not be dead), and JRuby.

Third, I think you'll find that a lot of the "poignant" discussion is
happening on blogs rather than the mailing list. For example, _why's blog
(Redhanded) is a great place to find some interesting discussion of deep
Ruby, particularly meta programming.

Finally, try releasing something cool (that isn't a Rails app or plugin)
and announcing it. I think you'll find that there is a lot of room on the
current list for discussion when there is something specific to talk about.
Not to be a _why fanboy, but Hpricot has gotten numerous discussions going
both on ruby-talk and on the Rails list.

} Daniel Schierbeck
--Greg



James Edward Gray II 12-30-2006 04:39 PM

Re: Proposal to create a new mailing list
 
On Dec 30, 2006, at 10:07 AM, Daniel Schierbeck wrote:

> Hello fellow Rubyphilics!
>
> As other have remarked, the quality of this list is rapidly
> declining --
> not because of a lack of participation, but rather because of the
> increase of the same. Each and every question, no matter how
> nubish, is
> answered, which of course is good. But the deep, poignant (no pun
> intended) discussions seem to have faded in both frequency and
> quality.
>
> I therefore propose we establish a ruby-experts (or the like) mailing
> list intended for exactly those discussions.
>
> Thoughts?


Who decides who the experts are?

James Edward Gray II


Trans 12-30-2006 05:12 PM

Re: Proposal to create a new mailing list
 

Daniel Schierbeck wrote:
> Hello fellow Rubyphilics!
>
> As other have remarked, the quality of this list is rapidly declining --
> not because of a lack of participation, but rather because of the
> increase of the same. Each and every question, no matter how nubish, is
> answered, which of course is good. But the deep, poignant (no pun
> intended) discussions seem to have faded in both frequency and quality.
>
> I therefore propose we establish a ruby-experts (or the like) mailing
> list intended for exactly those discussions.
>
> Thoughts?


While I think it is a worthy idea. But I can tell you from experience
it probably won't fly unless it gets offical's ruby-lang.org support or
you are some sort of marketing guru.

Personally I think all these [Typo] blogs are the bane of of ruby-talk.
Most posts would be much better served on a mailing list anyway.
Communicating through blog comments is disorganized, decentralized,
lacks audiance and cohesion. I think Blog and Ego are too closely
related. I hope that now that Time's man of the year is the Blogger
(and other such narcissists.), people can get over the hype and get
back to better ways of communicating. On occsaion when you do have a
serious "blogicle" than submitting it to a big name blog like Redhanded
is a much better idea --more like contributing to a web mag.

MOLMHO (More Or Less My Humble Opinion),
T.



Paulo Köch 12-30-2006 05:12 PM

Re: Proposal to create a new mailing list
 
I think Daniel Schierbeck really wanted is to take n00b-caring off =20
the ml.

I think this is a good ideia to promote clean, good discussion and =20
thought sharing. However, if the n00bs were to be "outcast" to a =20
different system (yes, i think ml is not the best troubleshooting =20
system), would you still go there and help them? And if you would, =20
would the majority also go there? I don't think so. IMHO, i think =20
this would just degrade the level of the community receptiveness. Do =20
you really want to bipolarize it?

If you really want poignant discussions, start them and make then =20
regular. If you want to separate the "n00b noise", encourage tagging =20
n00b mail. These are my two cents.

Paulo Jorge Duarte K=F6ch
paulo.koch@gmail.com


On 2006/12/30, at 16:31, Gregory Seidman wrote:

> On Sun, Dec 31, 2006 at 01:07:38AM +0900, Daniel Schierbeck wrote:
> } Hello fellow Rubyphilics!
> }
> } As other have remarked, the quality of this list is rapidly =20
> declining --
> } not because of a lack of participation, but rather because of the
> } increase of the same. Each and every question, no matter how =20
> nubish, is
> } answered, which of course is good. But the deep, poignant (no pun
> } intended) discussions seem to have faded in both frequency and =20
> quality.
> }
> } I therefore propose we establish a ruby-experts (or the like) =20
> mailing
> } list intended for exactly those discussions.
> }
> } Thoughts?
>
> First off, I vote no.
>
> Second, I think there has been a drop-off in "poignant" discussions =20=


> largely
> because people have settled on what is needed (or, rather, the =20
> community's
> view of where Ruby should be going matches Matz's view to a large =20
> extent).
> At this point, there are really two major priorities for Ruby: some
> cleanup (piddling missing functionality like blocks that take =20
> blocks, code
> cleanup/rewrite, removing syntax ambiguity, a formal specification =20
> of the
> language, etc.), and performance (i.e. a VM rather than an =20
> interpreter).
>
> The first is being served by progress toward Ruby 2.0, which mostly =20=


> gets
> discussed on ruby-core, I think. The second is being addressed by =20
> numerous
> initiatives, including YARV, Rubinius, Ruby.NET, Cardinal (Ruby on =20
> Parrot,
> which may or may not be dead), and JRuby.
>
> Third, I think you'll find that a lot of the "poignant" discussion is
> happening on blogs rather than the mailing list. For example, =20
> _why's blog
> (Redhanded) is a great place to find some interesting discussion of =20=


> deep
> Ruby, particularly meta programming.
>
> Finally, try releasing something cool (that isn't a Rails app or =20
> plugin)
> and announcing it. I think you'll find that there is a lot of room =20
> on the
> current list for discussion when there is something specific to =20
> talk about.
> Not to be a _why fanboy, but Hpricot has gotten numerous =20
> discussions going
> both on ruby-talk and on the Rails list.
>
> } Daniel Schierbeck
> --Greg
>
>




Jeremy McAnally 12-30-2006 05:14 PM

Re: Proposal to create a new mailing list
 
I think that's going to be a problem with any skill level based
separator we create: Who is a beginner? Who is an expert? What if a
beginner has a question that an expert needs to answer? If there
needs to be a split, perhaps the only way to do it effectively is a
topic driven one such as another's suggestion to create ruby-talk and
ruby-help.


--Jeremy

On 12/30/06, James Edward Gray II <james@grayproductions.net> wrote:
> On Dec 30, 2006, at 10:07 AM, Daniel Schierbeck wrote:
>
> > Hello fellow Rubyphilics!
> >
> > As other have remarked, the quality of this list is rapidly
> > declining --
> > not because of a lack of participation, but rather because of the
> > increase of the same. Each and every question, no matter how
> > nubish, is
> > answered, which of course is good. But the deep, poignant (no pun
> > intended) discussions seem to have faded in both frequency and
> > quality.
> >
> > I therefore propose we establish a ruby-experts (or the like) mailing
> > list intended for exactly those discussions.
> >
> > Thoughts?

>
> Who decides who the experts are?
>
> James Edward Gray II
>
>



Daniel Schierbeck 12-30-2006 05:15 PM

Re: Proposal to create a new mailing list
 
On Sun, 2006-12-31 at 01:39 +0900, James Edward Gray II wrote:
> On Dec 30, 2006, at 10:07 AM, Daniel Schierbeck wrote:
>
> > Hello fellow Rubyphilics!
> >
> > As other have remarked, the quality of this list is rapidly
> > declining --
> > not because of a lack of participation, but rather because of the
> > increase of the same. Each and every question, no matter how
> > nubish, is
> > answered, which of course is good. But the deep, poignant (no pun
> > intended) discussions seem to have faded in both frequency and
> > quality.
> >
> > I therefore propose we establish a ruby-experts (or the like) mailing
> > list intended for exactly those discussions.
> >
> > Thoughts?

>
> Who decides who the experts are?


No-one. Those who join the ruby-experts (I really just used "expert" to
emphasize the higher level of discussion) can discuss topics on an
expert level. Use whatever word you like, the real question here is
whether we want two lists at all, not what their respective names should
be.


Cheers,
Daniel



James Britt 12-30-2006 05:49 PM

Re: Proposal to create a new mailing list
 
Paulo Köch wrote:
> I think Daniel Schierbeck really wanted is to take n00b-caring off the ml.
>
> I think this is a good ideia to promote clean, good discussion and
> thought sharing. However, if the n00bs were to be "outcast" to a
> different system (yes, i think ml is not the best troubleshooting
> system), would you still go there and help them? And if you would, would
> the majority also go there? I don't think so. IMHO, i think this would
> just degrade the level of the community receptiveness. Do you really
> want to bipolarize it?


I suspect many here are already bipolar.

:)


1) Banishing people to a Nuby Ghetto would be a Bad Thing.
2) Experts? Who decides? How 'bout we call the new list
"r00by-1337-h4x0rz!1!"

>
> If you really want poignant discussions, start them and make then
> regular. If you want to separate the "n00b noise", encourage tagging
> n00b mail. These are my two cents.


Life is what you make it.



--
James Britt


http://www.jamesbritt.com - Playing with Better Toys


matt 12-30-2006 06:00 PM

Re: Proposal to create a new mailing list
 

Or how about:

ruby-lang-new-mailing-list-discussion
ruby-lang-spam
ruby-lang-announcements-that-might-be-spam
ruby-lang-could-someone-do-my-homework-for-me-pretty-please
=20
or my favorite:
ruby-lang-sarcasm :)=20



Happy New Year everyone!! =20


Matt


On Sun, 2006-12-31 at 02:49 +0900, James Britt wrote:
> Paulo K=C3=B6ch wrote:
> > I think Daniel Schierbeck really wanted is to take n00b-caring off the =

ml.
> >=20
> > I think this is a good ideia to promote clean, good discussion and=20
> > thought sharing. However, if the n00bs were to be "outcast" to a=20
> > different system (yes, i think ml is not the best troubleshooting=20
> > system), would you still go there and help them? And if you would, woul=

d=20
> > the majority also go there? I don't think so. IMHO, i think this would=20
> > just degrade the level of the community receptiveness. Do you really=20
> > want to bipolarize it?

>=20
> I suspect many here are already bipolar.
>=20
> :)
>=20
>=20
> 1) Banishing people to a Nuby Ghetto would be a Bad Thing.=09
> 2) Experts? Who decides? How 'bout we call the new list=20
> "r00by-1337-h4x0rz!1!"
>=20
> >=20
> > If you really want poignant discussions, start them and make then=20
> > regular. If you want to separate the "n00b noise", encourage tagging=20
> > n00b mail. These are my two cents.

>=20
> Life is what you make it.
>=20
>=20
>=20





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