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RichA 11-25-2011 01:56 PM

"Made In Japan" selling cache
 
Seems like that label is now being used to differentiate cameras from
their lower, Made in China, Thailand, Vietnam bretheren. Even if the
companies running things have enough control over production in those
Third World countries, the terrible quality of many Chinese products
and the incidents of contaminated products has left a bitter taste in
people's mouths. Made in Japan still stands for something.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2011/11/24/fujifilmxs1


Bruce 11-25-2011 02:36 PM

Re: "Made In Japan" selling cache
 
RichA <rander3127@gmail.com> wrote:

>Seems like that label is now being used to differentiate cameras from
>their lower, Made in China, Thailand, Vietnam bretheren. Even if the
>companies running things have enough control over production in those
>Third World countries, the terrible quality of many Chinese products
>and the incidents of contaminated products has left a bitter taste in
>people's mouths. Made in Japan still stands for something.
>
>http://www.dpreview.com/news/2011/11/24/fujifilmxs1



Perhaps you meant "cachet"?

I remember when 'Made in Japan' signified shoddy goods, often copied
from superior Western products. 'Made in Hong Kong' signified cheap
and nasty plastic junk, and the only things we imported from China
seemed to be food and textiles.

But all that has changed. Made in Japan is a selling point, and there
is nothing wrong with top brand photo equipment made in China or
Thailand.

'Made in Germany' still holds some value. Leica is keen to emphasise
that its cameras are 'Made in Germany', however most manufacturing is
done in Portugal, with final assembly and finishing in Germany.


RichA 11-25-2011 05:09 PM

Re: "Made In Japan" selling cache
 
On Nov 25, 9:36*am, Bruce <docnews2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> RichA <rander3...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Seems like that label is now being used to differentiate cameras from
> >their lower, Made in China, Thailand, Vietnam bretheren. *Even if the
> >companies running things have enough control over production in those
> >Third World countries, the terrible quality of many Chinese products
> >and the incidents of contaminated products has left a bitter taste in
> >people's mouths. *Made in Japan still stands for something.

>
> >http://www.dpreview.com/news/2011/11/24/fujifilmxs1

>
> Perhaps you meant "cachet"?


Yes, I thought it was cache with the French accent!!
>
> I remember when 'Made in Japan' signified shoddy goods, often copied
> from superior Western products. *'Made in Hong Kong' signified cheap
> and nasty plastic junk, and the only things we imported from China
> seemed to be food and textiles.


Japanese instituted a policy that forbade bad goods from being
export. They did that in the late 1960's or early 1970's. By then,
they'd just about taken over the electronics market completely.

> But all that has changed. *Made in Japan is a selling point, and there
> is nothing wrong with top brand photo equipment made in China or
> Thailand.


How do we know that? Are all the problems experienced by camera
owners due to design flaws? Remember that G2 I think it was that had
a body gap you could see inside it from?

> 'Made in Germany' still holds some value. *Leica is keen to emphasise
> that its cameras are 'Made in Germany', however most manufacturing is
> done in Portugal, with final assembly and finishing in Germany.


Yes, was it Zeiss who established that channel for Contax in the
1970's?
I think for Leica lenses (old and new), the hierarchy is:
Made in West Germany
Made in Canada
Made in...?

Bruce 11-25-2011 07:23 PM

Re: "Made In Japan" selling cache
 
RichA <rander3127@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Nov 25, 9:36*am, Bruce <docnews2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> RichA <rander3...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >Seems like that label is now being used to differentiate cameras from
>> >their lower, Made in China, Thailand, Vietnam bretheren. *Even if the
>> >companies running things have enough control over production in those
>> >Third World countries, the terrible quality of many Chinese products
>> >and the incidents of contaminated products has left a bitter taste in
>> >people's mouths. *Made in Japan still stands for something.

>>
>> >http://www.dpreview.com/news/2011/11/24/fujifilmxs1

>>
>> Perhaps you meant "cachet"?

>
>Yes, I thought it was cache with the French accent!!



In French, "cache" would be pronounced to rhyme with "cash" in
English. I thought that, being Canadian, you would probably have
learned French at school. :-(

>
>> I remember when 'Made in Japan' signified shoddy goods, often copied
>> from superior Western products. *'Made in Hong Kong' signified cheap
>> and nasty plastic junk, and the only things we imported from China
>> seemed to be food and textiles.

>
>Japanese instituted a policy that forbade bad goods from being
>export. They did that in the late 1960's or early 1970's. By then,
>they'd just about taken over the electronics market completely.



I recall the gold oval "JCII" stickers on cameras and lenses. I never
knew what they meant, but I gather they were supposed to inspire
belief in Japanese quality. But as the saying goes, handsome is as
handsome does, and that sticker did nothing for the optical quality of
anything I bought.


>> But all that has changed. *Made in Japan is a selling point, and there
>> is nothing wrong with top brand photo equipment made in China or
>> Thailand.

>
>How do we know that? Are all the problems experienced by camera
>owners due to design flaws? Remember that G2 I think it was that had
>a body gap you could see inside it from?



You seem to believe that nothing bad ever came out of Japan, and that
everything made in China is inferior. My experience is that Japan
produces some fine products and some junk. I suppose China does too,
perhaps in different proportions - there is a lot of new manufacturing
capacity in China, and a less experienced workforce, so perhaps China
lags some way behind Japan. But buyers of top brand products made in
China should be fairly safe.


>> 'Made in Germany' still holds some value. *Leica is keen to emphasise
>> that its cameras are 'Made in Germany', however most manufacturing is
>> done in Portugal, with final assembly and finishing in Germany.

>
>Yes, was it Zeiss who established that channel for Contax in the
>1970's?



The Zeiss/Contax story is complex. Basically Carl Zeiss gave a
limited license for the Zeiss and Contax brands to Kyocera provided
certain standards were met.


>I think for Leica lenses (old and new), the hierarchy is:
>Made in West Germany
>Made in Canada
>Made in...?



It is more complex than that. Leitz shifted production to Canada to
ensure the survival of the company. The Canadian government provided
generous assistance in setting up manufacturing facilities and orders
from the military. The relationship was fruitful and Leitz Canada
made some of the best lenses that the company had ever produced,
notably the Noctilux-M 50mm f/1.0 and I think also the Telyt-R 180mm
f/3.4. The quality of the Leitz Canada products was very high.

When Portugal joined the European Union in 1973 there were excellent
incentives offered to companies wishing to establish new manufacturing
facilities and take on Portuguese workers, as unemployment was high.
So Leitz started making some equipment at Vila Nova de Famalic„o,
Braga, Portugal from 1973.

Over a period of years, equipment that was formerly made in Canada
drifted back to Europe, some to Solms, Germany and some to Portugal.
Almost everything for the M and S ranges is finished in Germany and
the German content is claimed to be sufficient to justify the label
"Made in Germany".


RichA 11-25-2011 08:38 PM

Re: "Made In Japan" selling cache
 
On Nov 25, 2:23*pm, Bruce <docnews2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> RichA <rander3...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Nov 25, 9:36*am, Bruce <docnews2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> RichA <rander3...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >Seems like that label is now being used to differentiate cameras from
> >> >their lower, Made in China, Thailand, Vietnam bretheren. *Even if the
> >> >companies running things have enough control over production in those
> >> >Third World countries, the terrible quality of many Chinese products
> >> >and the incidents of contaminated products has left a bitter taste in
> >> >people's mouths. *Made in Japan still stands for something.

>
> >> >http://www.dpreview.com/news/2011/11/24/fujifilmxs1

>
> >> Perhaps you meant "cachet"?

>
> >Yes, I thought it was cache with the French accent!!

>
> In French, "cache" would be pronounced to rhyme with "cash" in
> English. *I thought that, being Canadian, you would probably have
> learned French at school. *:-(
>
>
>
> >> I remember when 'Made in Japan' signified shoddy goods, often copied
> >> from superior Western products. *'Made in Hong Kong' signified cheap
> >> and nasty plastic junk, and the only things we imported from China
> >> seemed to be food and textiles.

>
> >Japanese instituted a policy that forbade bad goods from being
> >export. *They did that in the late 1960's or early 1970's. *By then,
> >they'd just about taken over the electronics market completely.

>
> I recall the gold oval "JCII" stickers on cameras and lenses. *I never
> knew what they meant, but I gather they were supposed to inspire
> belief in Japanese quality. *But as the saying goes, handsome is as
> handsome does, and that sticker did nothing for the optical quality of
> anything I bought.
>
> >> But all that has changed. *Made in Japan is a selling point, and there
> >> is nothing wrong with top brand photo equipment made in China or
> >> Thailand.

>
> >How do we know that? *Are all the problems experienced by camera
> >owners due to design flaws? *Remember that G2 I think it was that had
> >a body gap you could see inside it from?

>
> You seem to believe that nothing bad ever came out of Japan, and that
> everything made in China is inferior. *My experience is that Japan
> produces some fine products and some junk. *I suppose China does too,
> perhaps in different proportions - there is a lot of new manufacturing
> capacity in China, and a less experienced workforce, so perhaps China
> lags some way behind Japan. *But buyers of top brand products made in
> China should be fairly safe.


"Different proportions" could mean 50:50 or 75:25 or 99:1.

Which top brand products come from China? None of the camaras for
sure.

Bruce 11-25-2011 09:13 PM

Re: "Made In Japan" selling cache
 
RichA <rander3127@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>Which top brand products come from China? None of the camaras for
>sure.



Nikon 1 Series.


ASCII 11-26-2011 01:19 AM

Re: "Made In Japan" selling cache
 
Bruce wrote:
>
>I recall the gold oval "JCII" stickers on cameras and lenses.


I recall the stickers with "JIS" on them
and we thought it meant to signify
"Japanese Imported ****"
Then Sony and some others totally reversed that image
to where it now suggests excellence.

11-26-2011 02:09 AM

Re: "Made In Japan" selling cache
 
RichA <rander3127@gmail.com> wrote:
> Seems like that label is now being used to differentiate cameras from
> their lower, Made in China, Thailand, Vietnam bretheren. Even if the
> companies running things have enough control over production in those
> Third World countries, the terrible quality of many Chinese products
> and the incidents of contaminated products has left a bitter taste in
> people's mouths. Made in Japan still stands for something.
>
> http://www.dpreview.com/news/2011/11/24/fujifilmxs1


Yeah, radiation poisoning.

Just kidding
a classic Deathy joke.

John McWilliams 11-26-2011 05:27 PM

Re: "Made In Japan" selling cache
 
On 11/25/11 PDT 6:36 AM, Bruce wrote:
> RichA<rander3127@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Seems like that label is now being used to differentiate cameras from
>> their lower, Made in China, Thailand, Vietnam bretheren. Even if the
>> companies running things have enough control over production in those
>> Third World countries, the terrible quality of many Chinese products
>> and the incidents of contaminated products has left a bitter taste in
>> people's mouths. Made in Japan still stands for something.
>>
>> http://www.dpreview.com/news/2011/11/24/fujifilmxs1


> Perhaps you meant "cachet"?


Indeed. But you could have a cache of goods with cachet hidden away
somewhere!

> I remember when 'Made in Japan' signified shoddy goods, often copied
> from superior Western products.


Absolutely.

There was a story in the 50's that some Japanese companies formed a town
called "USA" in Japan so they could stamp "Made in USA" on the ratty
goods. No idea whether it was true or not, and don't care enough to
research an answer.

--
Coach: "Are you just ignorant, or merely apathetic?"
Player: "Coach, I don't know, and I don't care."

PeterN 11-27-2011 02:37 AM

Re: "Made In Japan" selling cache
 
On 11/25/2011 8:19 PM, ASCII wrote:
> Bruce wrote:
>>
>> I recall the gold oval "JCII" stickers on cameras and lenses.

>
> I recall the stickers with "JIS" on them
> and we thought it meant to signify
> "Japanese Imported ****"
> Then Sony and some others totally reversed that image
> to where it now suggests excellence.



IIRC about that time a lot of Japanese crap was labeled "Made in Usa."
Usa is a city located in Japan.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usa,_%C5%8Cita>

--
Peter


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