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-   -   Hypocrites (http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/t806022-hypocrites.html)

jacob navia 11-17-2011 12:11 PM

Hypocrites
 
In the thread

"Deleting first N lines from a text file"

I published an answer to that problem using the C containers library.

I received (as is very often the case) an answer from an anonymous
coward telling me

<quote>
You self-celebrating ****o. There only exist your things to you:
that silly lcc-win and your funny containers.
<end quote>

I did not bother to answer.

The same anonymous coward sent an answer (with the same insults)
to another thread where I asked for feedback on the gcc implementation
for printf customization.

In that thread Seebs answered obviously NOT to condemn the insults
but to add to them. Talking with the anonymous coward he wrote:

<quote from seebs>
I have Mr. Navia plonked because of his habit of random and unjustified
flames, so I thank you for calling that post to my attention
<end quote>

So, in the logic of this person (seebs), insulting me as "self-
celebrating ****o" is a motive to answer him a "THANK YOU".

And in the same sentence he writes about "unjustified flames" I would
start. Unjustified of course.

This tactic (The victim is responsible, if you get insulted and you do
not accept those insults in silence it is YOUR fault) is the same in
the other "regulars" that infest this group, Kicki, Seebs, and all others.

To avoid being too obvious, Seebs quoted the anonymous troll but
*snipped the insults away*.

This anonymous posts are obviously done by Kicki, seebs, and others
to avoid consequences and having the "pleasure" of insulting without
having to face any consequences.

This "character assassination" campaigns is similar to the one
he started against a book author some years ago.

What can you do to stop this?

This people thrive on the silence of the other members of
this discussion group, and live only in this discussion
group. They are unable to do anything productive (Seebs
has never published anything, neither Kicki, or any other
of those people) but they are able to insult the ones that
propose technical solutions like my container library or
my compiler system.

jacob

jgharston 11-17-2011 01:13 PM

Re: Hypocrites
 
jacob navia wrote:
> What can you do to stop this?


The Malicious Communications Act 1988 section 1 deals with the sending
to another of any article which is indecent or grossly offensive, or
which conveys a threat, or which is false, provided there is an intent
to cause distress or anxiety to the recipient. The offence covers
letters, writing of all descriptions, electronic communications,
photographs and other images in a material form, tape recordings,
films and video recordings. Poison-pen letters are usually covered.

Report him to the police.

JGH

Nick Keighley 11-17-2011 01:47 PM

Re: Hypocrites
 
On Nov 17, 12:11*pm, jacob navia <ja...@spamsink.net> wrote:

> In the thread
>
> "Deleting first N lines from a text file"
>
> I published an answer to that problem using the C containers library.
>
> I received (as is very often the case) an answer from an anonymous
> coward telling me
>
> <quote>
> You self-celebrating ****o. There only exist your things to you:
> that silly lcc-win and your funny containers.
> <end quote>


the man is an idiot. Which is why most people didn't respond to it.

> I did not bother to answer.
>
> The same anonymous coward sent an answer (with the same insults)
> to another thread where I asked for feedback on the gcc
> implementation for printf customization.
>
> In that thread Seebs answered obviously NOT to condemn the insults
> but to add to them.


no he didn't. You are just illustrating what he (and I) are talking
about. Anyone who doesn't agree with you triggers a rant. In a five
year old this can be cute.

> Talking with the anonymous coward he wrote:
>
> <quote from seebs>
> I have Mr. Navia plonked because of his habit of random and unjustified
> flames, so I thank you for calling that post to my attention
> <end quote>


and then *you* trimmed the bit where he explained why he had thanked
someone for drawing attention to your post. Because he was interested
in what you had to say on the subject of extensible printf()!

He plonked you for flaming. So you complain when he mentions it by
flaming!

> So, in the logic of this person (seebs), insulting me as "self-
> celebrating ****o" is a motive to answer him a "THANK YOU".


so in the "logic" of navia...

> And in the same sentence he writes about "unjustified flames" I would
> start. Unjustified of course.
>
> This tactic (The victim is responsible, if you get insulted and you > do not accept those insults in silence it is YOUR fault)


well ok, since you raise the subject. Are you going to withdraw your
statement where you called me a moron? I was going to let go.

Is "****o" better or worse than "moron"?

> is the same in
> the other "regulars" that infest this group, Kicki, Seebs, and all
> others.


yadda yadda yah... change the record.

> To avoid being too obvious, Seebs quoted the anonymous troll but
> *snipped the insults away*.


isn't this good? To quote them may have given apparent support.

> This anonymous posts are obviously done by Kicki, seebs,


you have absolutly no evidence for this. The postign styles don't even
look similar. Don't you think it is rude and childish to make up funny
names for people?

> and others
> to avoid consequences and having the "pleasure" of insulting without
> having to face any consequences.
>
> This "character assassination" campaigns is similar to the one
> he started against a book author some years ago.


*******s it is. The book *was* crap as you could ascertain yourself. I
think if the publisher./author had been wiling to publish an erratum
(as any rerasonable technical book should) they'd have saved
themselves a lot of grief.

Teapot and --.-- (or whatever he was) are just noisy little twits.

> What can you do to stop this?


if it's simply insults I'd ignore it. Though it can be annoying! try
to avoid doing it yourself. Throwing insults around usually makes the
perpetrator look far more foolish than the "victim". In matters of
fact calmly point out the errors. In matters of opinion (even on
technical stuff people have opinions) calmly state your position. Try
to avoid "'tis" "'tis not" "it is too!!" arguments. I just walk away
once the positiosn start to repeat. if you're findign it hard to
remain calm vplonk (what I call virtual plonk- I read but only respond
to fatcually wrong stuff) and finally plonk them. I've only ever
trully plonked one person in all my time on usenet.

I doubt it makes much differencre to you but I'd *much* rather read
your posts than "teapots".

> This people thrive on the silence of the other members of
> this discussion group,


to repond to this sort of person only gives them legitemacy. That is
what trolls *do*.

> and live only in this discussion
> group. They are unable to do anything productive (Seebs
> has never published anything, neither Kicki, or any other
> of those people) but they are able to insult the ones that
> propose technical solutions like my container library or
> my compiler system.


constructive criticism should be greeted joyfully.


Happy Programming


Malcolm McLean 11-17-2011 02:14 PM

Re: Hypocrites
 
On Nov 17, 2:11*pm, jacob navia <ja...@spamsink.net> wrote:
>
>> You self-celebrating ****. There only exist your things to you:
>> that silly lcc-win and your funny containers.

>
> So, in the logic of this person (seebs), insulting me as "self-
> celebrating ****" is a motive to answer him a "THANK YOU".
>
> What can you do to stop this?
>
> This people thrive on the silence of the other members of
> this discussion group, and live only in this discussion
> group.
>

The message was unacceptable, I ignored it of course, because the best
thing to do to these sorts of posts is to take no notice.
But I'm surprised and disappointed that a regular would have joined in
on so crude a personal attack.

Kenny McCormack 11-17-2011 02:33 PM

Re: Hypocrites
 
In article <7c53b310-fbaa-43f3-8a04-55031e07a79c@e15g2000vba.googlegroups.com>,
Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> wrote:
>On Nov 17, 2:11*pm, jacob navia <ja...@spamsink.net> wrote:
>>
>>> You self-celebrating ****. There only exist your things to you:
>>> that silly lcc-win and your funny containers.

>>
>> So, in the logic of this person (seebs), insulting me as "self-
>> celebrating ****" is a motive to answer him a "THANK YOU".
>>
>> What can you do to stop this?
>>
>> This people thrive on the silence of the other members of
>> this discussion group, and live only in this discussion
>> group.
>>

>The message was unacceptable, I ignored it of course, because the best
>thing to do to these sorts of posts is to take no notice.
>But I'm surprised and disappointed that a regular would have joined in
>on so crude a personal attack.


It's pretty clear that the "newcomer" is a sock of one (or more) of the regs.

But the funny thing is - I'm beginning to wonder if Jacob isn't actually a
reg sock as well. It is getting harder and harder to believe that Jacob is
for real, given how pathetic he makes himself look.

--
Religion is regarded by the common people as true,
by the wise as foolish,
and by the rulers as useful.

(Seneca the Younger, 65 AD)


Nick Keighley 11-17-2011 03:51 PM

Re: Hypocrites
 
On Nov 17, 1:47*pm, Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nos...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> On Nov 17, 12:11*pm, jacob navia <ja...@spamsink.net> wrote:


> > Talking with the anonymous coward [peter seebach] wrote:

>
> > <quote from seebs>
> > I have Mr. Navia plonked because of his habit of random and unjustified
> > flames, so I thank you for calling that post to my attention
> > <end quote>


this is what he really said:-

<quote>
I have Mr. Navia plonked because of his habit of random and
unjustified
flames, so I thank you for calling that post to my attention, since it
has
some cool ideas in a field I have previously thought about.
</quote>

> and then *you* trimmed the bit where he explained why he had thanked
> someone for drawing attention to your post. Because he was interested
> in what you had to say on the subject of extensible printf()!


<snip>

blmblm@myrealbox.com 11-17-2011 03:58 PM

Re: Hypocrites
 
In article <ja2tl5$bgu$1@speranza.aioe.org>,
jacob navia <jacob@jspamsink.org> wrote:
> In the thread
>
> "Deleting first N lines from a text file"
>
> I published an answer to that problem using the C containers library.
>
> I received (as is very often the case) an answer from an anonymous
> coward telling me
>
> <quote>
> You self-celebrating ****o. There only exist your things to you:
> that silly lcc-win and your funny containers.
> <end quote>
>
> I did not bother to answer.
>
> The same anonymous coward sent an answer (with the same insults)
> to another thread where I asked for feedback on the gcc implementation
> for printf customization.
>
> In that thread Seebs answered obviously NOT to condemn the insults
> but to add to them. Talking with the anonymous coward he wrote:
>
> <quote from seebs>
> I have Mr. Navia plonked because of his habit of random and unjustified
> flames, so I thank you for calling that post to my attention
> <end quote>


Um. But then he goes on to say .... Well, here's the whole paragraph:

>I have Mr. Navia plonked because of his habit of random and unjustified
>flames, so I thank you for calling that post to my attention, since it has
>some cool ideas in a field I have previously thought about. I even got
>as far as a test implementation of a printf which let you pass formatting
>functions as arguments, although I never got around to a "register new
>characters" feature.


I understood Seebs to be thanking *someone* (perhaps the one insulting
you, perhaps someone upthread) for calling his attention to your post
because it (your post) contained something he found interesting. So,
not a pile-on insult at all.

> So, in the logic of this person (seebs), insulting me as "self-
> celebrating ****o" is a motive to answer him a "THANK YOU".
>
> And in the same sentence he writes about "unjustified flames" I would
> start. Unjustified of course.


You do realize that you're just providing more evidence here that you
are quick to take offense, sometimes where perhaps none was intended?

> This tactic (The victim is responsible, if you get insulted and you do
> not accept those insults in silence it is YOUR fault) is the same in
> the other "regulars" that infest this group, Kicki, Seebs, and all others.
>
> To avoid being too obvious, Seebs quoted the anonymous troll but
> *snipped the insults away*.
>
> This anonymous posts are obviously done by Kicki, seebs, and others
> to avoid consequences and having the "pleasure" of insulting without
> having to face any consequences.
>
> This "character assassination" campaigns is similar to the one
> he started against a book author some years ago.
>
> What can you do to stop this?
>
> This people thrive on the silence of the other members of
> this discussion group, and live only in this discussion
> group. They are unable to do anything productive (Seebs
> has never published anything,


A quick Google search on "Peter Seebach" suggests otherwise --
unless you have in mind some definition of "publish" that doesn't
include books?

> neither Kicki,


Contrast this with Seebs's "Mr. Navia". Which one sounds more
civil?

> or any other
> of those people) but they are able to insult the ones that
> propose technical solutions like my container library or
> my compiler system.


(I wasn't going to respond, since I notice that at least one
other person has made pretty much the same points I'm making,
but I also notice that apparently at least one other person
agrees with your assessment, so rather than being a lurker
who supports, and not even in e-mail .... Two cents' worth.)

--
B. L. Massingill
ObDisclaimer: I don't speak for my employers; they return the favor.

Oliver Jackson 11-17-2011 05:37 PM

Re: Hypocrites
 
On Nov 17, 4:11*am, jacob navia <ja...@spamsink.net> wrote:
> In the thread
>
> "Deleting first N lines from a text file"
>
> I published an answer to that problem using the C containers library.
>
> I received (as is very often the case) an answer from an anonymous
> coward telling me
>
> <quote>
> You self-celebrating ****o. There only exist your things to you:
> that silly lcc-win and your funny containers.
> <end quote>
>
> I did not bother to answer.
>
> The same anonymous coward sent an answer (with the same insults)
> to another thread where I asked for feedback on the gcc implementation
> for printf customization.
>
> In that thread Seebs answered obviously NOT to condemn the insults
> but to add to them. Talking with the anonymous coward he wrote:
>
> <quote from seebs>
> I have Mr. Navia plonked because of his habit of random and unjustified
> flames, so I thank you for calling that post to my attention
> <end quote>
>
> So, in the logic of this person (seebs), insulting me as "self-
> celebrating ****o" is a motive to answer him a "THANK YOU".


Dang, I missed last week's "Keeping up with the CLCers."

Seebs 11-17-2011 06:48 PM

Re: Hypocrites
 
On 2011-11-17, Vincenzo Mercuri <vincenzo.mercuri@yahoo.it> wrote:
> Seebs has published articles for IBM developerWorks, he's (I think)
> the author of "Beginning Portable Shell Scripting: From Novice to
> Professional",
> he's a "jury member" in the Obfuscated C Code Contest,
> and who knows what he has done, does and will do in his daily life.


My most obvious published work, apart from the books and articles
(and more articles that were sold to people who published them without
a byline), would be pseudo. I also produce all sorts of other things,
and while the blog posts may be of little interest to most people, every
so often I get a "this changed my life!" email, so I guess they're of
utility to someone.

If I have to choose between the approval of Mr. Navia, and the approval
of some guy whose kid just got diagnosed as autistic, and my writings
about autism have made him feel like this is not the end of the world,
lemme just say that there's a reason I have Mr. Navia killfiled.

-s
--
Copyright 2011, all wrongs reversed. Peter Seebach / usenet-nospam@seebs.net
http://www.seebs.net/log/ <-- lawsuits, religion, and funny pictures
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game_(Scientology) <-- get educated!
I am not speaking for my employer, although they do rent some of my opinions.

Seebs 11-17-2011 06:48 PM

Re: Hypocrites
 
On 2011-11-17, Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> wrote:
> no he didn't. You are just illustrating what he (and I) are talking
> about. Anyone who doesn't agree with you triggers a rant. In a five
> year old this can be cute.


Exactly. I think the anonymous flamer is an idiot, and I was thanking
him for calling my attention to something interesting Jacob wrote. Which
is to say, I was hinting to him (on the off chance that he actually reads
posts here) that his flaming of Jacob was having the opposite of its
intended effect.

>> To avoid being too obvious, Seebs quoted the anonymous troll but
>> *snipped the insults away*.


> isn't this good? To quote them may have given apparent support.


That was, in fact, intentional. The insults did not strike me as worthy
of comment, but since the question has been brought up, I found them both
shallow and unjustified. The attacks on Mr. Navia have two key flaws:

1. They're mostly blatantly untrue.
2. Even in the cases where it's not obvious to even a casual observer
that they're untrue, they're irrelevant.

Basically, imagine that we were to discover that Jacob's posts here are
part of a sinister plot on his behalf to cause people to use, and possibly
pay for, lcc-win. ... So what? He's a material participant in the group
who talks intelligently about C. That's not spamming, even if he hopes
that it will induce people to buy his product.

>> This people thrive on the silence of the other members of
>> this discussion group,


> to repond to this sort of person only gives them legitemacy. That is
> what trolls *do*.


Exactly.

Flamers don't thrive on silence, they thrive on responses.

-s
--
Copyright 2011, all wrongs reversed. Peter Seebach / usenet-nospam@seebs.net
http://www.seebs.net/log/ <-- lawsuits, religion, and funny pictures
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game_(Scientology) <-- get educated!
I am not speaking for my employer, although they do rent some of my opinions.


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