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John Little 09-17-2011 07:59 PM

Replaced bad capacitors, and monitor works
 
Thank you, ~misfit~!

In this thread,
http://groups.google.com/group/nz.co...33?hl=en&pli=1

I'd said:
> > I've got a screen that failed one day with some swollen caps..


~misfit~ replied:

> ... if you can see obviously swollen caps then it's likely worth trying...
> ... if your screen has swollen caps the chances are that the swollen
> ones are the ones that are defective and preventing the circuit from
> working as it should.


Two $1.50 10V 1000µF low ESR capacitors from Jaycar, a bit of soldering, and
it works.

Regards, John




~misfit~ 09-18-2011 01:52 AM

Re: Replaced bad capacitors, and monitor works
 
Somewhere on teh intarwebs John Little wrote:
> Thank you, ~misfit~!
>
> In this thread,
> http://groups.google.com/group/nz.co...33?hl=en&pli=1
>
> I'd said:
>>> I've got a screen that failed one day with some swollen caps..

>
> ~misfit~ replied:
>
>> ... if you can see obviously swollen caps then it's likely worth
>> trying... ... if your screen has swollen caps the chances are that
>> the swollen ones are the ones that are defective and preventing the
>> circuit from working as it should.

>
> Two $1.50 10V 1000F low ESR capacitors from Jaycar, a bit of
> soldering, and it works.
>
> Regards, John


Great stuff!

You're very welcome John, I'm pleased that I could be of help.

I'm currently trying to come to grips with lead-free soldering (RoHS),
re-working SMD-based PCBs, mainly in laptops. It's a a whole new ball-game,
requiring different (read: more expensive) equipment and techniques. I've
been trolling teh intarwebs looking for tutorials. Alas, most of the ones I
find are video tutorials and so far about four out of five have been rather
useless. It's a bandwidth-hungry process.

I think I'm just going to have to bite the bullet and experiment on dead
things. However the consumables are so expensive compared with the couple of
1/2 pound rolls of flux-core 60/40 solder I bought back in the 70's that are
still going strong. Now I find that really I need a hot-air SMD re-work
station, there's only so much that I can do with an iron. LOL, for an
excercise in futility I suppose I could always apply to W&I for funding for
one, tell them that I'm hoping to use it to generate income.

(Which would be a great thing but I don't think I'd get much out of the odd
job, especially as I don't really 'get' electronics, I usually just Google
or talk to people who do [get electronics] and find out what the most likely
cause is and take it from there....)

Congratulations on resurrecting the screen. I get a real buzz from fixing
and then using something that would otherwise have been landfill.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long, way when religious belief has a
cozy little classification in the DSM."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)



Murray Symon 09-18-2011 02:23 AM

Re: Replaced bad capacitors, and monitor works
 
~misfit~ wrote:

> Somewhere on teh intarwebs John Little wrote:
>> Thank you, ~misfit~!
>>
>> In this thread,
>> http://groups.google.com/group/nz.co...33?hl=en&pli=1
>>
>> I'd said:
>>>> I've got a screen that failed one day with some swollen caps..

>>
>> ~misfit~ replied:
>>
>>> ... if you can see obviously swollen caps then it's likely worth
>>> trying... ... if your screen has swollen caps the chances are that
>>> the swollen ones are the ones that are defective and preventing the
>>> circuit from working as it should.

>>
>> Two $1.50 10V 1000�F low ESR capacitors from Jaycar, a bit of
>> soldering, and it works.
>>
>> Regards, John

>
> Great stuff!
>
> You're very welcome John, I'm pleased that I could be of help.
>
> I'm currently trying to come to grips with lead-free soldering (RoHS),
> re-working SMD-based PCBs, mainly in laptops. It's a a whole new
> ball-game, requiring different (read: more expensive) equipment and
> techniques. I've been trolling teh intarwebs looking for tutorials. Alas,
> most of the ones I find are video tutorials and so far about four out of
> five have been rather useless. It's a bandwidth-hungry process.
>
> I think I'm just going to have to bite the bullet and experiment on dead
> things. However the consumables are so expensive compared with the couple
> of 1/2 pound rolls of flux-core 60/40 solder I bought back in the 70's
> that are still going strong. Now I find that really I need a hot-air SMD
> re-work station, there's only so much that I can do with an iron. LOL, for
> an excercise in futility I suppose I could always apply to W&I for funding
> for one, tell them that I'm hoping to use it to generate income.
>
> (Which would be a great thing but I don't think I'd get much out of the
> odd job, especially as I don't really 'get' electronics, I usually just
> Google or talk to people who do [get electronics] and find out what the
> most likely cause is and take it from there....)
>
> Congratulations on resurrecting the screen. I get a real buzz from fixing
> and then using something that would otherwise have been landfill.



Tangent has some good ones worth checking out on his website.
Mainly geared towards audio projects, but the basics are the same.

<http://tangentsoft.net/elec/movies/>

JohnO 09-18-2011 10:56 PM

Re: Replaced bad capacitors, and monitor works
 
On Sep 18, 1:52*pm, "~misfit~" <sore_n_ha...@nospamyahoo.com.au>
wrote:
> Somewhere on teh intarwebs John Little wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Thank you, ~misfit~!

>
> > In this thread,
> >http://groups.google.com/group/nz.co...33?hl=en&pli=1

>
> > I'd *said:
> >>> I've got a screen that failed one day with some swollen caps..

>
> > ~misfit~ replied:

>
> >> ... if you can see obviously swollen caps then it's likely worth
> >> trying... ... if your screen has swollen caps the chances are that
> >> the swollen ones are the ones that are defective and preventing the
> >> circuit from working as it should.

>
> > Two $1.50 10V 1000F low ESR capacitors from Jaycar, a bit of
> > soldering, and it works.

>
> > Regards, John

>
> Great stuff!
>
> You're very welcome John, I'm pleased that I could be of help.
>
> I'm currently trying to come to grips with lead-free soldering (RoHS),
> re-working SMD-based PCBs, mainly in laptops. It's a a whole new ball-game,
> requiring different (read: more expensive) equipment and techniques. I've
> been trolling teh intarwebs looking for tutorials. Alas, most of the onesI
> find are video tutorials and so far about four out of five have been rather
> useless. It's a bandwidth-hungry process.
>
> I think I'm just going to have to bite the bullet and experiment on dead
> things. However the consumables are so expensive compared with the coupleof
> 1/2 pound rolls of flux-core 60/40 solder I bought back in the 70's that are
> still going strong. Now I find that really I need a hot-air SMD re-work
> station, there's only so much that I can do with an iron. LOL, for an
> excercise in futility I suppose I could always apply to W&I for funding for
> one, tell them that I'm hoping to use it to generate income.
>
> (Which would be a great thing but I don't think I'd get much out of the odd
> job, especially as I don't really 'get' electronics, I usually just Google
> or talk to people who do [get electronics] and find out what the most likely
> cause is and take it from there....)
>
> Congratulations on resurrecting the screen. I get a real buzz from fixing
> and then using something that would otherwise have been landfill.
> --
> Shaun.
>
> "Humans will have advanced a long, long, way when religious belief has a
> cozy little classification in the DSM."
> David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)


Wait till you start messing with BGA mounted components!

~misfit~ 09-19-2011 04:01 AM

Re: Replaced bad capacitors, and monitor works
 
Somewhere on teh intarwebs JohnO wrote:
> On Sep 18, 1:52 pm, "~misfit~" <sore_n_ha...@nospamyahoo.com.au>
> wrote:

[snip]
>> I'm currently trying to come to grips with lead-free soldering
>> (RoHS), re-working SMD-based PCBs, mainly in laptops. It's a a whole
>> new ball-game, requiring different (read: more expensive) equipment
>> and techniques.

[snip]
> Wait till you start messing with BGA mounted components!


LOL! I don't have the sort of money needed to mess with BGAs. Shame as
failure of BGAs is the number one cause of machine failure in ThinkPads.
It's usually the GPU daughter-card or the southbridge. There's an outfit in
the UK (with a branch in the US) who re-flow or re-ball ThinkPad mobos,
depending on what's needed, on a mobo swap basis. They use an infrared
re-work station.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long, way when religious belief has a
cozy little classification in the DSM."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)



~misfit~ 09-19-2011 04:02 AM

Re: Replaced bad capacitors, and monitor works
 
Somewhere on teh intarwebs Murray Symon wrote:
> ~misfit~ wrote:
>
>> Somewhere on teh intarwebs John Little wrote:
>>> Thank you, ~misfit~!
>>>
>>> In this thread,
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/nz.co...33?hl=en&pli=1
>>>
>>> I'd said:
>>>>> I've got a screen that failed one day with some swollen caps..
>>>
>>> ~misfit~ replied:
>>>
>>>> ... if you can see obviously swollen caps then it's likely worth
>>>> trying... ... if your screen has swollen caps the chances are that
>>>> the swollen ones are the ones that are defective and preventing the
>>>> circuit from working as it should.
>>>
>>> Two $1.50 10V 1000?F low ESR capacitors from Jaycar, a bit of
>>> soldering, and it works.
>>>
>>> Regards, John

>>
>> Great stuff!
>>
>> You're very welcome John, I'm pleased that I could be of help.
>>
>> I'm currently trying to come to grips with lead-free soldering
>> (RoHS), re-working SMD-based PCBs, mainly in laptops. It's a a whole
>> new ball-game, requiring different (read: more expensive) equipment
>> and techniques. I've been trolling teh intarwebs looking for
>> tutorials. Alas, most of the ones I find are video tutorials and so
>> far about four out of five have been rather useless. It's a
>> bandwidth-hungry process.
>>
>> I think I'm just going to have to bite the bullet and experiment on
>> dead things. However the consumables are so expensive compared with
>> the couple of 1/2 pound rolls of flux-core 60/40 solder I bought
>> back in the 70's that are still going strong. Now I find that really
>> I need a hot-air SMD re-work station, there's only so much that I
>> can do with an iron. LOL, for an excercise in futility I suppose I
>> could always apply to W&I for funding for one, tell them that I'm
>> hoping to use it to generate income.
>>
>> (Which would be a great thing but I don't think I'd get much out of
>> the odd job, especially as I don't really 'get' electronics, I
>> usually just Google or talk to people who do [get electronics] and
>> find out what the most likely cause is and take it from there....)
>>
>> Congratulations on resurrecting the screen. I get a real buzz from
>> fixing and then using something that would otherwise have been
>> landfill.

>
>
> Tangent has some good ones worth checking out on his website.
> Mainly geared towards audio projects, but the basics are the same.
>
> <http://tangentsoft.net/elec/movies/>


Thanks. I'll check them out when bandwidth allows.

Cheers,
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long, way when religious belief has a
cozy little classification in the DSM."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)



~misfit~ 09-19-2011 05:12 AM

Re: Replaced bad capacitors, and monitor works
 
Somewhere on teh intarwebs Robert Cooze wrote:
> On 18/09/11 13:52, ~misfit~ wrote:


<stuff about RoHS and lead-free soldering>

> Heay heads up this lead free stuff. I have found unless you are spot
> on in you technique the fix wont last as long as the parts
>
> Look at "tin whiskers" on google


Yup, been there. T'was mentioned in several of the guides I've read.

> for the whole I end up using leaded
> solder (with tin and others) and the fix lasts long enough for the
> next ting to break. (Photocopiers and Printers)


I've been working with SMD components that are tiny. The one I've been
trying to replace is 3mm long, 1.2mm wide and 0.5mm thick. It's surrounded
(on one side) by SMDs that are a hell of a lot smaller. I'm finding that,
unless I wick away *all* of the RoHS shite I can't get good enough joins
with lead solder. They don't seem to want to mix... it's a bitch.

I ended up breaking the tiny fragile connector / solder-tab off the end of
the SMD so, while I'm waiting for a replacement, I figured I might try to
'learn' how to work with lead-free stuff. It's a PITA, different temps,
different fluxes, even the solder looks different when it's 'flowing'.

<shakes head> SMD re-working with a soldering iron was hard enough before
they bought in this lead-free stuff. However, what are you going to do when
you can turn a paper weight into a working laptop if you can replace a few
SMDs?

> As for the start of original thread
>
> "Its been a bad year two different mother boards a power supply, Lcd
> monitor, DVD recorder and finally a set top box. When will it end....
> All stopped working with in a month of each other. "
>
> I ended up fixing the monitor with some cheep caps from jaycar been
> running correctly for a month or two. the hard part was sepperating
> the plastic surround with out fear of breaking the panel.


Yeah, just getting to some things can be the hardest part. That's why I love
my ThinkPads, you just download the Hardware Maintenance Manual and you're
good to go. Also, everything's held together with screws (unlike other
brands, even Dell's corporate range have parts that 'click' into place and
feel like they're going to break when you're trying to open them.)

Cheers,
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long, way when religious belief has a
cozy little classification in the DSM."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)



JohnO 09-19-2011 05:30 AM

Re: Replaced bad capacitors, and monitor works
 
On 19/09/2011 16:01, ~misfit~ wrote:
> Somewhere on teh intarwebs JohnO wrote:
>> On Sep 18, 1:52 pm, "~misfit~"<sore_n_ha...@nospamyahoo.com.au>
>> wrote:

> [snip]
>>> I'm currently trying to come to grips with lead-free soldering
>>> (RoHS), re-working SMD-based PCBs, mainly in laptops. It's a a whole
>>> new ball-game, requiring different (read: more expensive) equipment
>>> and techniques.

> [snip]
>> Wait till you start messing with BGA mounted components!

>
> LOL! I don't have the sort of money needed to mess with BGAs. Shame as
> failure of BGAs is the number one cause of machine failure in ThinkPads.
> It's usually the GPU daughter-card or the southbridge. There's an outfit in
> the UK (with a branch in the US) who re-flow or re-ball ThinkPad mobos,
> depending on what's needed, on a mobo swap basis. They use an infrared
> re-work station.


Heh!

But the adventurous *can* remount BGA components by hand without the
specialist gear. There's a few examples on youtube. Not sure how many
boards you'd wreck out of 10 though.


~misfit~ 09-19-2011 12:16 PM

Re: Replaced bad capacitors, and monitor works
 
Somewhere on teh intarwebs JohnO wrote:
> On 19/09/2011 16:01, ~misfit~ wrote:
>> Somewhere on teh intarwebs JohnO wrote:
>>> On Sep 18, 1:52 pm, "~misfit~"<sore_n_ha...@nospamyahoo.com.au>
>>> wrote:

>> [snip]
>>>> I'm currently trying to come to grips with lead-free soldering
>>>> (RoHS), re-working SMD-based PCBs, mainly in laptops. It's a a
>>>> whole new ball-game, requiring different (read: more expensive)
>>>> equipment and techniques.

>> [snip]
>>> Wait till you start messing with BGA mounted components!

>>
>> LOL! I don't have the sort of money needed to mess with BGAs. Shame
>> as failure of BGAs is the number one cause of machine failure in
>> ThinkPads. It's usually the GPU daughter-card or the southbridge.
>> There's an outfit in the UK (with a branch in the US) who re-flow or
>> re-ball ThinkPad mobos, depending on what's needed, on a mobo swap
>> basis. They use an infrared re-work station.

>
> Heh!
>
> But the adventurous *can* remount BGA components by hand without the
> specialist gear. There's a few examples on youtube. Not sure how many
> boards you'd wreck out of 10 though.


LOL, yeah, there's the 'candle trick' as well as doing it in an oven, or
with a heat gun.... I've read accounts of them all, usually claiming
success. However I, like you, think that for every person who's documenting
their brilliant 'Heath Robinson' repair there are 10+ throwing motherboards
into scrap bins. ;-)

I have a T43 here that has a loose southbridge but I didn't think it worth
trying any of these methods. Instead I've been using it as a donor machine
and, in that role, it's helped me get two machines working perfectly so far
(one of them a really tricked-out T43p with a UXGA IPS display <g>)....
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long, way when religious belief has a
cozy little classification in the DSM."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)



Dave Taylor 09-20-2011 11:57 AM

Re: Replaced bad capacitors, and monitor works
 
"~misfit~" <sore_n_happy@nospamyahoo.com.au> wrote in
news:j56j0v$r5g$1@dont-email.me:

> <shakes head> SMD re-working with a soldering iron was hard enough
> before they bought in this lead-free stuff. However, what are you
> going to do when you can turn a paper weight into a working laptop if
> you can replace a few SMDs?


conducting epoxy on the head of a pin? Do they make it?


--
Ciao, Dave


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