Velocity Reviews

Velocity Reviews (http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/index.php)
-   C Programming (http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/f42-c-programming.html)
-   -   C is fixed or not ? (http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/t750878-c-is-fixed-or-not.html)

David Remacle 07-04-2011 07:31 AM

C is fixed or not ?
 
Hello,

I am a french speaker but i will try to be clear.

My question is : The C langage is it fixed or still in change ?

Thank's.

ps I would not be a throll it is just a question.

Chris H 07-04-2011 08:06 AM

Re: C is fixed or not ?
 
In message <4e116c59$0$13719$426a34cc@news.free.fr>, David Remacle
<listes@NOSpamclampin.com> writes
>Hello,
>
>I am a french speaker but i will try to be clear.
>
>My question is : The C langage is it fixed or still in change ?
>
>Thank's.
>
>ps I would not be a throll it is just a question.


The C language is still in change. There should be a new version in
2012

--
Support Sarah Palin for the next US President
Go Palin! Go Palin! Go Palin!
In God We Trust! Rapture Ready!!!
http://www.sarahpac.com/



Joachim Schmitz 07-04-2011 08:17 AM

Re: C is fixed or not ?
 
David Remacle wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am a french speaker but i will try to be clear.
>
> My question is : The C langage is it fixed or still in change ?


The ISO commitee is still active and proposing changes for an upcomog C201x
See http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg...docs/n1570.pdf for the
current draft for the next C standard

See also comp.std.c, which is where these thing get discussed.

Bye, Jojo


Stefan Ram 07-04-2011 08:53 AM

Re: C is fixed or not ?
 
David Remacle <listes@NOSpamclampin.com> writes:
>My question is : The C langage is it fixed or still in change ?


The language described by ISO/IEC 9899:1999 (E) C is fixed
(ignoring possible inconsistences or absences of definitions).

However, what language is referred to as C by the folks
changes in time. Therefore, technically, C is not the name
of a specific language. This, partially, is done for marketing
reasons. (K&R [1st Edition] C was successful. ISO/IEC 9899:1999
(E) C is another language, but ISO called it C to inherit
the success of K&R [1st Edition] C, and people followed.)

So we now have to live with the possibility that C in 20
years from now might be quite a different language, again.

To name a specific language, precede its name by the specification
of its implementation or specification, such as, for example:

- K&R (1st edition) C
- ISO/IEC 9899:1999 (E) C
- GNU (compiler version) C
- ...



Noob 07-04-2011 09:37 AM

Re: C is fixed or not ?
 
David Remacle wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I am a french speaker but i will try to be clear.
>
> My question is : The C langage is it fixed or still in change ?
>
> Thanks.
>
> ps I would not be a throll it is just a question.


Bonjour,

In case you're wondering, the francophone news group is fr.comp.lang.c

Regards.

Chris H 07-04-2011 10:31 AM

Re: C is fixed or not ?
 
In message <C-20110704105054@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>, Stefan Ram
<ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de> writes
>David Remacle <listes@NOSpamclampin.com> writes:
>>My question is : The C langage is it fixed or still in change ?

>
> The language described by ›ISO/IEC 9899:1999 (E) C‹ is fixed
> (ignoring possible inconsistences or absences of definitions).
>
> However, what language is referred to as ›C‹ by the folks
> changes in time. Therefore, technically, ›C‹ is not the name
> of a specific language. This, partially, is done for marketing
> reasons. (K&R [1st Edition] C was successful. ISO/IEC 9899:1999
> (E) C is another language, but ISO called it ›C‹ to inherit
> the success of K&R [1st Edition] C, and people followed.)
>
> So we now have to live with the possibility that ›C‹ in 20
> years from now might be quite a different language, again.
>
> To name a specific language, precede its name by the specification
> of its implementation or specification, such as, for example:
>
> - K&R (1st edition) C
> - ISO/IEC 9899:1999 (E) C
> - GNU (compiler version) C



What a load of drivel.

C is NOT fixed. It is a continually evolving language.

There were errors and erata's for K&R1
C90 (ISO9899:1990) had 1 amendment and THREE TC'1
C99 Also has TC's (Technical Corrigendum fixing, amending and
changing)

C1* is in development.

So your statement that ISO C 9899:1999 is fixed is incorrect.

GNU is NOT C... C is defined by ISO. GNU has it's own definition for
GCC. GCC was developed in parallel and diverged from what became ISO C.





--
Support Sarah Palin for the next US President
Go Palin! Go Palin! Go Palin!
In God We Trust! Rapture Ready!!!
http://www.sarahpac.com/



Malcolm McLean 07-04-2011 03:01 PM

Re: C is fixed or not ?
 
On Jul 4, 10:31*am, David Remacle <lis...@NOSpamclampin.com> wrote:
>
> My question is : The C langage is it fixed or still in change ?
>

It's largely fixed. There was an attempt to update the language to
include features like variable-sized arrays, however it failed to be
widely accepted. The user community preferred the language as it was.

There will be a few changes in future, but expect them to be minor.
--
Read my book MiniBASIC - how to write a script interpreter
http://www.lulu.com/bgy1mm

Noob 07-04-2011 03:29 PM

Re: C is fixed or not ?
 
Malcolm McLean wrote:

> It's largely fixed. There was an attempt to update the language to
> include features like variable-sized arrays [i.e. C99], however it
> failed to be widely accepted. The user community preferred the
> language as it was.
>
> There will be a few changes in future, but expect them to be minor.


Do you consider multi-threading support and bounds-checking
interfaces minor features?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C1X

Or do you think these features will not make it into the
next standard?

:-)

Regards.

James Kuyper 07-04-2011 04:01 PM

Re: C is fixed or not ?
 
On 07/04/2011 11:29 AM, Noob wrote:
> Malcolm McLean wrote:
>
>> It's largely fixed. There was an attempt to update the language to
>> include features like variable-sized arrays [i.e. C99], however it
>> failed to be widely accepted. The user community preferred the
>> language as it was.
>>
>> There will be a few changes in future, but expect them to be minor.

>
> Do you consider multi-threading support and bounds-checking
> interfaces minor features?
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C1X
>
> Or do you think these features will not make it into the
> next standard?


His comments about the past make sense only if he's referring to the
language as actually used, rather than as defined by the relevant
standards. His comments about the future are therefore, presumably,
about the language as it will be used, not about anticipated changes to
the standard.

The multi-threading features seem to be on track for approval, so his
comments imply that those changes will be just as unpopular as the ones
made in C99. Since support for multi-threaded code seems to be one of
the most popular requests in this forum, that suggests a judgment the
multi-threaded support in C1X is so poorly designed that it won't
actually be used. Is it? I can't tell, I've insufficient experience with
such things to judge.
--
James Kuyper

jacob navia 07-04-2011 05:20 PM

Re: C is fixed or not ?
 
Le 04/07/11 18:01, James Kuyper a écrit :
> On 07/04/2011 11:29 AM, Noob wrote:
>> Malcolm McLean wrote:
>>
>>> It's largely fixed. There was an attempt to update the language to
>>> include features like variable-sized arrays [i.e. C99], however it
>>> failed to be widely accepted. The user community preferred the
>>> language as it was.


> The multi-threading features seem to be on track for approval, so his
> comments imply that those changes will be just as unpopular as the ones
> made in C99. Since support for multi-threaded code seems to be one of
> the most popular requests in this forum, that suggests a judgment the
> multi-threaded support in C1X is so poorly designed that it won't
> actually be used. Is it? I can't tell, I've insufficient experience with
> such things to judge.


That will be a catastrophe.

There are mainly two competing standards that take 100% of the multi-
threaded code in C:

(1) POSIX pthreads
(2) Windows threads

The idea that people will REWRITE their threading code to please a
standard that isn't debugged, and has (at the start) ZERO support
is completely unconnected with software construction realities.

The features that were added to C99 didn't get wide support because
they weren't really essential but they were completely easy to
implement (and for many) GNU had already broken ground with them.

Implementing multi threading support however is completely different.

This needs a LOT of care to implement, and compiler vendors
will hesitate to implement something nobody asked them to do.

You say:

> Since support for multi-threaded code seems to be one of
> the most popular requests in this forum...


I do not remember ANYBODY asking for multi-threading support in
this forum for the pas 10 years or so, in any case as my
memory serves

If you search with google you will find a thread of about 2005
when somebody wrote here he was writing a multi-threaded TCP
server and he got the usual answer that multi-threading is system-
specific and should go somewhere else.


And you tell us "the most popular request"...

It is obvious that you want t support the committee, and maybe it is
right to do so. Bending the truth is not a good strategy however.

In this forum (and in comp.std.c) NOBODY has asked for that. The
committee decided to include that because Mr Plaugher decided that
he wanted that in the standard, not because in the user community
somebody asked for that.

The first versions of the specs were just a COPY AND PASTE from the
documentation of Plaugher's multi-thread library.

Maybe that has changed, I did not follow that since I consider that
the language can't do a THIRD specification that will ADD TO THE
CONFUSION of already two competing threading models.

I see that as completely ridiculous


All times are GMT. The time now is 04:04 AM.

Powered by vBulletin®. Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO ©2010, Crawlability, Inc.